First real rough ride experience

[Roger F]

My recent learning experience...any comments would be great. This weekend my wife and I sailed out of Casco Bay in Maine. We usually sail north or south of Hussey Sound (taking the longer way to go around it) as with the tide and wind our 240 can have a very difficult time making it out (in fact unless we time it just right and are patient, the motor is needed. This Saturday the wind was 10 to 15 knots with maybe some gust approaching 20. It was 1.5 to 2 hours before high time and we found our selves headed, yes..., up hussey sound under sail and motor. We just about made it out ok and could see the water getting choppy and seas a bit larger, but appeared to smooth out beyond the mouth. So we plowed on. No bad weather had been in the forecast, but by the time we got to to the mouth the seas were fairly large and some tall grey clouds had begun to appear. Up to this time we had been sailing directly into the waves and tacking, primarily to keep the main from flapping too much while under motor to get through Hussey. Our optimism went down the tube quick as we realized the seas were not going to get better and we felt we needed to turn around and head back into Hussey Sound. To try to head north or south in front of the islands at the mouth of the sound was not doable as the waves would hit us from the side and even taking them at 45 - 60 degrees would have been too rough.Anyway, we timed the waves and the 240 turned on a dime, thanks to above, and we were able to turn 180 in between the waves. We thought we had it licked, but the fun really started then taking the large seas from the stern. I found the boat very difficult to handle with large wave and the wind from a stern. We made it of course and chalk it up to experience and to some degree more confidence as to what the boat can handle with our sending us for a swim in Maine's cold pond. We are most definately fair weather sailors and this is our second season with the 240. Once in the sounds enough we had a nice quick but relaxing ride back on run. I think we'll know what to warning signs to look for a bit more next time, but bottom line, the weather can change mighty quick - forcasted or not - and throw in a strong tide current...it can get mighty rough in a 24' water ballast boat!

 

[Denise, hunter 23]

when doubt...

Reef! As everyone has told me. coming about in a gust is sure to be unsettling.. don't think i'd have been there at all! Glad you made in in safely!

 

[Roger F]

Sail doused

I forgot to add that we did take the main sail down before we even attempted coming about, so we were under motor power only at that point. Once safely turned and safely back in a ways from the mouth, I put the sails back up to run the rest of the way.

 

[Mike M16608]

Experienced Folks Comment, please

Hi Rodger - We've had the same experience on our H23 going out into Erie, having the usual chop at our harbor entrance then finding ourselves coming about in heavy waves and basically surfing back home. The worst part is the ob prop going in and out of the water as waves crest under us. We have not been broached or pooped, but that is probably more luck than skill on my part. I'd like some of the more experienced hands to comment on the best way to handle this situation. Our waves on Erie, at least when we are out there, are probably not as high as yours, but the shape is steep and the period between them very short.

 

[Bill O'Donovan]

You did fine

Advice about reefing is well advised.Big winds for a 24-foot boat, cold water too.Reefing early builds first mate's confidence.Whatever you do, don't start yelling. If she's gun-shy, go solo to get experience.But get her back in the boat soon.

 

[Roger F]

She's a trooper!

I learned early on yelling - even in loud winds - gains me nothing! My wife did fine. My comment to don the life jackets sobered the mood plenty. We are planning to head back out in the next couple days too...all smiles. We have hit some rough stuff before with the bow coming out of the water quite a bit and water splashing over the cabin...but I have to admit I was more than a bit tense and the cold beer back at the mooring was just what the Dr ordered.

 

[ruedi ross]

I got into some big following seas

In a 260 in the Sea of Cortez last year. Sounds pretty much like your experience, I threw out 200' of anchor rode with 30' of chain on the end, no anchor and tied it off to stern cleats. That helped alot with the following seas

 

[Clyde]

Good learning experience.

The Hunter 240 water ballast sailboat has a CE rating of "C". It's design to withstand a maximum Force 6 (22 -27 knots) wind and wave up to 2 meters (6 feet). The conditions you described were within the performance range of the 240. If the wind was blowing that hard in the protected waters, then the wind driven waves would definitely have been much bigger once outside the protected area. Wind driven waves are based on wind speed, depth of the water, fetch (unobstructed distance over water) and how long the wind had been blowing. Small Craft Advisory- A term used by the Naval Oceanography Command and the National Weather Service to describe winds hazardous to small craft operators along coastal and inland waterways for sustained wind velocities of 18-34 knots.Small Craft Warning- The Warning is more serious than the Advisory. Issued up to 12 hours ahead of conditions. Note: there is no legal definition of the term "small craft".With the winds in the 10-15 knot range with gust up to 20 knots, you were below the lower end of the Small Craft Advisory. It was probably the reason you didn't hear any Small Craft Advisory bulletin on the weather broadcasts before you headed out. You can check the local conditions at sea by checking NOAA's data buoy. The data buoy provides wind and wave height at sea, they are usually located in high traffic areas. "That which does not kill us makes us stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche"Fair Winds,Clyde

 

[HAL]

240-260 FOLLOWING SEA

Interesting to hear about your unplanned entertainment on the ocean.  Some more details would be interesting for us 240/260 owners .We may have been in or may find ourselves in a similar situation. Was your motor pulling out of the water causing loss of control? Is it an extra long shaft? Was the horizon disappearing between waves? Was the current running such that you were passing through large standing waves or were they wind driven and running more like on the open water? Did you try to take them squarely on the stern or at an angle? Were you in danger of burying the bow in the back of the next wave causing a broach? Was the danger in surfing down the wave at such a speed that you would lose steerage and broach? As to rued ross sea anchor use in a following sea. Was this to slow the speed down the face of the wave or was it more to hold the stern square to the sea? Deploying this in Rogers’s case might have been difficult because he had his hands full and needed some quick fix tactics. It sounds like you were on a long distance run where you had time to deploy it to smooth out your overall ride. Back to your ? how should we handle large following seas in a 240/260 or any light displacement boat ? Would a small amount of jib unfurled provide a steadying influence holding the bow downwind from the stern making a broach less likely? Or would that possibly (because of the imbalance) drive the bow to one side increasing the broach possibility? Would a special very deep mainsail reef provide stability in this situation?

 

[Rob Ullinger]

Tidal currents

While we have been out with folowing 4'-5' seas on Lake Erie, one thing that we "sweet water" sailors do not have to contend with are tidal currents. On salt water, the confusion caused by opposing wind and tide, or when incomeing tide becomes outgoing tide can reek havoc.We learn every time we take our boats out, but sometimes we learn some larger or more memorable lessons.Rob,S/V Kinship

 

[Roger F]

Hal's ?s

We have standard long shaft merc 8 hp. It was coming out and took some over it too but did not even cough.No the horizon was not disappearing that I recall...and I think I'd recall that!THe waves were large enough (for me) to want to only take square on or with just a slight angle.My guess is that to a more experienced sailor, the conditions would not have been quite as sobering as they were to us relatively green sailors. It seems that the water ballast is tippy and recovers fine after a bit during lighter conditions. But when in more heavy conditions with shifting wind, strong tidal current and decent waves...the boat never has a chance to recover as it would during normal heeling. The result is getting tossed arounf like a salad. It is comforting to read all of the comments about the unlikeliness of actually flipping over, but at the time I have to admit I was really hoping that I would not be the one posting the bad news!

 

[Drew]

My two cents

Roger - I've a 240 and sail it on the Potomac River, which runs about five miles wide for it's final 20 miles before it dumps into the Chesapeake Bay. The mouth is legendary for adverse tide and wind conditions that can even make freighter captains leary. Anyway, I got caught down there once in conditions very much like what you've described and have had to turn tail and run for cover.In my time with the 240, I've learned that the boat is far more stable sailing under a reefed main alone than it is under power. It's a beamy boat - beamy boats generally don't do well in following seas. I'd try to take them at an angle whether sailing into them or away from them.Running like you did sounds to me like the prudent thing to do under the circumstances - I would have done the same thing except under a reefed main. I've also learned I can heave to under bare poles when it gets really bad - or run downwind in a hove to position and the boat is still better off than flopping around in the salad strainer which it tends to do with the outboard running. Go figure.The boat obviously has its limits, but it can take more than you can, as they say. It's hard to stay completely rational when you're in the thick of it, but the bottom line is you would have to take a 6-8 foot breaker square on the beam to flip that boat over. As long as the boat is upright, and still afloat, it will always get you home. Get on back out there and enjoy.