I sail a 23.5' on a beautiful little lake in the Twin Cities during our 6 month sailing season. I love sailing with my wife but she has developed a real aversion to heeling over. She's been sailing with me for seven years, mostly on bigger boats on Lake Superior, so she's seen worse than the picture-perfect days we've had this last season (our first with the 23.5). We broached good and hard in a Hunter 33' once about seven years ago up in the Apostles (my buddy's glasses are still on the lake bottom after that one). Never again since then, however, and we certainly haven't knocked down. I have striven for the shallowest deck angle possible to accomodate her...I do not care too much about speed. Unfortunately, her aversion to heeling over keeps getting worse. This came to a head at the end of the season when she finally grasped (literally) the concept of depowering the mainsail. Now I can't get the mainsheet in my hand and we're in irons on a beam reach! That last sail of the season resulted in a long motor in when the sun fell. I've tried the scientific approach, explaining sailing theory, to no avail. Any suggestions? Is there a good video out there, or first mate support groups? I would really like to prepare for the next sailing season.
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get used to it!
Join the club! Don't know of anyway/anyone who has ever won this! Other then it is a very real fear in your wifes mind and respect it or boating will become a real hassle,just take the good with the bad and try to get some more time on the water alone or with a pal who likes to heel!
Join the club! Don't know of anyway/anyone who has ever won this! Other then it is a very real fear in your wifes mind and respect it or boating will become a real hassle,just take the good with the bad and try to get some more time on the water alone or with a pal who likes to heel!
amen
I feel your pain brother...........it'll take time for her to understand that a sailboat is supposed to heel and it's a normal state. But don't push her or she'll get pissed. It'll have to come with experience.
I feel your pain brother...........it'll take time for her to understand that a sailboat is supposed to heel and it's a normal state. But don't push her or she'll get pissed. It'll have to come with experience.
Lessons in control
My better half also has/had adversion to heeling and it comes in her case by not feeling some control over her situation. It has been conquered by her having some lessons by a qualified teacher that understands the fear. I would suggest sailing lessons from an all women sailing school. We used to own a 23.5 and it does as you know have a tender quality about it. It does however become more stable once it reaches 10 degrees in that the water ballast then reaches a point where it is effective. Patience above all else!
My better half also has/had adversion to heeling and it comes in her case by not feeling some control over her situation. It has been conquered by her having some lessons by a qualified teacher that understands the fear. I would suggest sailing lessons from an all women sailing school. We used to own a 23.5 and it does as you know have a tender quality about it. It does however become more stable once it reaches 10 degrees in that the water ballast then reaches a point where it is effective. Patience above all else!
Put her at the Helm
Mine was had problems too. Put her at the helm so that she could feel the boat, heel, etc. Worked wonders. Only problem is that I can't get her away from the helm. Oh well, things always need fixing on the boat <grin>. But seriously, once she feels comfortable at the helm, the heeling anxiety will leave. Jim
Mine was had problems too. Put her at the helm so that she could feel the boat, heel, etc. Worked wonders. Only problem is that I can't get her away from the helm. Oh well, things always need fixing on the boat <grin>. But seriously, once she feels comfortable at the helm, the heeling anxiety will leave. Jim
Heeling problems
Why don't you investigate a Catamaran, your heeling problems would be over, might pick up bonus points along the way. Sincerely Jean Hrab
Why don't you investigate a Catamaran, your heeling problems would be over, might pick up bonus points along the way. Sincerely Jean Hrab
Thanks for the input!
Thanks to all for the input! I just got off the phone with the first mate and asked that she consider an all-women sailing school. Incidentally, regarding the cat idea...we spent a few days at sea on a 32' cat a couple years ago. We experienced a very strange sensation when our "sea legs" hit us a couple hours after getting off the boat. We were accustomed to the long moments of a sloop's pitch and yawl, resulting in the pleasant sensation that one is still sailing hours later, sometimes even a day later. The short, choppy pitch and yawl of the cat resulted instead in a bout of motion sickness several hours after we got off the boat. The sail itself was marvelous for the several days we were at sea...but the drive home was dreadful. I wonder if anyone out there has had the same sensation?
Thanks to all for the input! I just got off the phone with the first mate and asked that she consider an all-women sailing school. Incidentally, regarding the cat idea...we spent a few days at sea on a 32' cat a couple years ago. We experienced a very strange sensation when our "sea legs" hit us a couple hours after getting off the boat. We were accustomed to the long moments of a sloop's pitch and yawl, resulting in the pleasant sensation that one is still sailing hours later, sometimes even a day later. The short, choppy pitch and yawl of the cat resulted instead in a bout of motion sickness several hours after we got off the boat. The sail itself was marvelous for the several days we were at sea...but the drive home was dreadful. I wonder if anyone out there has had the same sensation?
I sail alone 
I have a Hunter 170. It is as tender as rare filet mignon. The first season I had it, my wife and daughter (then 6, now 8+) sailed with me every time. We came very close to getting knocked down many times. My wife ended up mostly sqatting over the centerboard. She eventually gave up sailing with me, and my daughter for the most part has done the same. Good thing, since this past spring I got knocked down, took a swim in cool water, and the boat turtled. Unforgettable. Not so bad except the water was too cold, and I was in it too long. HOWEVER, last March I convinced my girls to go sailing in Tortola with me for a week on a Beneteau 352. I was the captain and they were the crew. No one els aboard. My wife and I were both secretly a bit anxxious at first, but we all had a ball, nothing bad happened, and now my wife refuses to go on any sailboat smaller, since that boat hardly heeled, even in 4+ foot swells and choppy whitecaps and strong winds. This March, we go back to Tortola for another week on a Beneteau 413. My advice, sail alone on the smaller boat, and invite her on a sail on a bigger, heavier boat. She and you will be happy. By the way, on our one week boat tour, we hardly got off the water. When we did, we had difficulty standing steady on dry land! No one got seasick on board.
I have a Hunter 170. It is as tender as rare filet mignon. The first season I had it, my wife and daughter (then 6, now 8+) sailed with me every time. We came very close to getting knocked down many times. My wife ended up mostly sqatting over the centerboard. She eventually gave up sailing with me, and my daughter for the most part has done the same. Good thing, since this past spring I got knocked down, took a swim in cool water, and the boat turtled. Unforgettable. Not so bad except the water was too cold, and I was in it too long. HOWEVER, last March I convinced my girls to go sailing in Tortola with me for a week on a Beneteau 352. I was the captain and they were the crew. No one els aboard. My wife and I were both secretly a bit anxxious at first, but we all had a ball, nothing bad happened, and now my wife refuses to go on any sailboat smaller, since that boat hardly heeled, even in 4+ foot swells and choppy whitecaps and strong winds. This March, we go back to Tortola for another week on a Beneteau 413. My advice, sail alone on the smaller boat, and invite her on a sail on a bigger, heavier boat. She and you will be happy. By the way, on our one week boat tour, we hardly got off the water. When we did, we had difficulty standing steady on dry land! No one got seasick on board.
Fear of Heeling
Todd, We previously owned a H140. My wife's voice pitch and vocabulary peaked was the angle of heel increased. She was really uneasy about going out with me. We had both taken sailing lessons so she had an idea about heeling. This year we purchased a H260. She's not as uneasy. She told me as we heel more she looks out over the water rather than at the angle of heel in front of the boat. Seems to help her I guess due to the fact the heel doesn't seem as apparent the farther away from the boat you look. Of course she still holds on to the sides pretty tight. Tried letting her at the helm but she gets really anxious when other boats approach or are in close proximity. . She hasn't thrown in the towel though. We'll try next season because believe it or not she loves sailing. Paul H S/V Linda Belle
Todd, We previously owned a H140. My wife's voice pitch and vocabulary peaked was the angle of heel increased. She was really uneasy about going out with me. We had both taken sailing lessons so she had an idea about heeling. This year we purchased a H260. She's not as uneasy. She told me as we heel more she looks out over the water rather than at the angle of heel in front of the boat. Seems to help her I guess due to the fact the heel doesn't seem as apparent the farther away from the boat you look. Of course she still holds on to the sides pretty tight. Tried letting her at the helm but she gets really anxious when other boats approach or are in close proximity. . She hasn't thrown in the towel though. We'll try next season because believe it or not she loves sailing. Paul H S/V Linda Belle
heeling ,
Nice to know we are not alone, do not know of many women who are all that comfortable with the heeling aspect of sailing, We have simply learned to reef sooner than needed, and some days wife decides to stay dockside,She may be less uncomfortable than she was at one time , but she will never get entirely used to it, it does help some what when she has tiller, but at some point , she hands it over to me, life is all about compromise, i guess, and we should be thankful that our wives share our passion at least on calm days, in that they are more understanding about our trips to west marine, good luck, Mike B
Nice to know we are not alone, do not know of many women who are all that comfortable with the heeling aspect of sailing, We have simply learned to reef sooner than needed, and some days wife decides to stay dockside,She may be less uncomfortable than she was at one time , but she will never get entirely used to it, it does help some what when she has tiller, but at some point , she hands it over to me, life is all about compromise, i guess, and we should be thankful that our wives share our passion at least on calm days, in that they are more understanding about our trips to west marine, good luck, Mike B
Heeling
My wife has the same fear of heeling, it has gotten better with time on the water. I have suggested to her to take a sailing course or take the tiller more often to feel more in control but she doesn't want to do either. We are moving up to a Hunter 290 from a 23.5 and with a larger boat hope this will ease her fears. Otherwise I will have to do more single handed sailing.
My wife has the same fear of heeling, it has gotten better with time on the water. I have suggested to her to take a sailing course or take the tiller more often to feel more in control but she doesn't want to do either. We are moving up to a Hunter 290 from a 23.5 and with a larger boat hope this will ease her fears. Otherwise I will have to do more single handed sailing.
Dakota Jim is Correct...
My wife has done a 360 on this subject. Got our H240 in 99 and she had a great deal of fear. Gave her the tiller this last season and she is completely (almost)comfortable with heeling as part of the package. She took 2nd place in the Labor Day Races - turns out she is more competitive than I am. Hope this helps... Thanks, Charlie "Good Medicine"
My wife has done a 360 on this subject. Got our H240 in 99 and she had a great deal of fear. Gave her the tiller this last season and she is completely (almost)comfortable with heeling as part of the package. She took 2nd place in the Labor Day Races - turns out she is more competitive than I am. Hope this helps... Thanks, Charlie "Good Medicine"
Heel angle
I totally sympathise with Todd's wife. When I first sailing on displacement boats the heel angle was very distressing. Something about seeing all that accommodation– sinks, doors, curtains, books, etc. down there– on the wrong angle can be profoundly unsettling. I learned from by dad the basic principles of why a boat heels and most importantly the idea that in normal weather, there is no way an even nominally well-sailed boat can possible go over. This is what we came to call the 'ever so much more so' rule– the more it heels, the more it wants to come right again. This is a fact of physics and not dependent on our perception (or fear) of it. I am glad that Todd has at last tried to explain this to his wife. Also, it's obvious she is not sitting down below squawking like a scared chicken– that's the worst place for her. Her grasp of the mainsheet as 'roll control' is a good sign. Maybe one might buy an inclinometer and put it where she can see it– which is where it should be anyway, for the mainsheet controller. Show her various angles of heel and what they are like, and then make a deal with her, like if it goes past 18 degrees she can dump it. Then show her how little she can dump it and get away with it, thus keeping the boat moving with a little bit of luff and encouraging her to seek the best of sail trim whenever possible. I wonder too if modest racing would not help. A bit of round-the-buoys competitiveness might show her that losing can feel worse than mild and temporary discomfort– then again that may be a GUY thing! As adults we have to objectively accept the true facts of our environments and that these CAN be understood and we CAN become comfortable with them given the right frame of mind. I readily realise that that many of my father's designs tend to heel soon and a lot– it's a factor of having more sail than they need and a tendency to be lighter than many others out there. But the heel angle will prove to be finite and predictable. I acknowledge that for some people only experience will convince them. I only hope Mrs Todd is not one of those who greets every new experience like an entirely new experience. She needs to see that certain conditions can be predicted and assumed to be predictable. I truly hope she comes to accept that, but I admit it is a very rational viewpoint and that not everyone sees things the same way. JC
I totally sympathise with Todd's wife. When I first sailing on displacement boats the heel angle was very distressing. Something about seeing all that accommodation– sinks, doors, curtains, books, etc. down there– on the wrong angle can be profoundly unsettling. I learned from by dad the basic principles of why a boat heels and most importantly the idea that in normal weather, there is no way an even nominally well-sailed boat can possible go over. This is what we came to call the 'ever so much more so' rule– the more it heels, the more it wants to come right again. This is a fact of physics and not dependent on our perception (or fear) of it. I am glad that Todd has at last tried to explain this to his wife. Also, it's obvious she is not sitting down below squawking like a scared chicken– that's the worst place for her. Her grasp of the mainsheet as 'roll control' is a good sign. Maybe one might buy an inclinometer and put it where she can see it– which is where it should be anyway, for the mainsheet controller. Show her various angles of heel and what they are like, and then make a deal with her, like if it goes past 18 degrees she can dump it. Then show her how little she can dump it and get away with it, thus keeping the boat moving with a little bit of luff and encouraging her to seek the best of sail trim whenever possible. I wonder too if modest racing would not help. A bit of round-the-buoys competitiveness might show her that losing can feel worse than mild and temporary discomfort– then again that may be a GUY thing! As adults we have to objectively accept the true facts of our environments and that these CAN be understood and we CAN become comfortable with them given the right frame of mind. I readily realise that that many of my father's designs tend to heel soon and a lot– it's a factor of having more sail than they need and a tendency to be lighter than many others out there. But the heel angle will prove to be finite and predictable. I acknowledge that for some people only experience will convince them. I only hope Mrs Todd is not one of those who greets every new experience like an entirely new experience. She needs to see that certain conditions can be predicted and assumed to be predictable. I truly hope she comes to accept that, but I admit it is a very rational viewpoint and that not everyone sees things the same way. JC
Sailing with Compromise
Todd, As you can see from the responses, you're not alone. When my wife and I married, I had a 14' day sailor. She would sit at the base of the mast with her arms and legs wrapped around it calling out our angle of heel in 5 degree increments. What a trooper. Now we have a 1996 H26 and though she sits in the cockpit with me she still gives me audible reminders of our angle of heel. The compromise we reached early on, was that half of the weekend will be spent motoring to a cove and spending the day on the hook BBQing and soaking up rays. This works out very well since she only comes with me about half the time anyway. BTW she won't hold the tiller more than a couple of minutes at a time but will go on deck for sail handling. Guess she's coming along slowly. What a trooper!!! I just won't be able to fall out of the boat till she can handle it by herself. Invest in a harness, I did. "Festivity" 1996 H26
Todd, As you can see from the responses, you're not alone. When my wife and I married, I had a 14' day sailor. She would sit at the base of the mast with her arms and legs wrapped around it calling out our angle of heel in 5 degree increments. What a trooper. Now we have a 1996 H26 and though she sits in the cockpit with me she still gives me audible reminders of our angle of heel. The compromise we reached early on, was that half of the weekend will be spent motoring to a cove and spending the day on the hook BBQing and soaking up rays. This works out very well since she only comes with me about half the time anyway. BTW she won't hold the tiller more than a couple of minutes at a time but will go on deck for sail handling. Guess she's coming along slowly. What a trooper!!! I just won't be able to fall out of the boat till she can handle it by herself. Invest in a harness, I did. "Festivity" 1996 H26
Opposite Problem
My normally mild mannered wife absolutely loves to bury the cabin windows in the water. I'm the one clinging to the companionway. She has this strange look in her eyes and a maniacal laugh as all the stuff in the cabin slides to the other side. Its scary. Alan Long S/V Random Access
My normally mild mannered wife absolutely loves to bury the cabin windows in the water. I'm the one clinging to the companionway. She has this strange look in her eyes and a maniacal laugh as all the stuff in the cabin slides to the other side. Its scary. Alan Long S/V Random Access
You must really be heeled...
My stuff usually ends up on the cabin sole, not on the opposite side of the cabin! BTW, my two daughters love to bury the lee rail. Peter S/V Raven
My stuff usually ends up on the cabin sole, not on the opposite side of the cabin! BTW, my two daughters love to bury the lee rail. Peter S/V Raven
Take her out and let her try to dump a boat!
I began sailing at 7 years old. I'm 47 now. Heeling always bothered me -- especially when I was on the downward side. A good friend came up with an idea for a cure. So I took out an 18' Flying Dutchman and tried to dump it! I thought I could just dump it in a second, but it was really not that quick and easy to do. The boat eventually went over, we got wet, we uprighted the boat, bailed out the water and sailed back to the dock. That was the last of my heeling fears. I learned a lot from the experience and knew that no matter what, I could deal with the situation. That gave me a great deal of confidence, as well as know how. I haven't dumped a boat since and I bury the rails on San Francisco Bay in my Hunter 25 every chance I get. I'm quite comfortable even in the ugliest situations because I know that if something does happen, I'm prepared to deal with it and can handle it. It's worth a try. Maybe start with a Laser! Good Luck!
I began sailing at 7 years old. I'm 47 now. Heeling always bothered me -- especially when I was on the downward side. A good friend came up with an idea for a cure. So I took out an 18' Flying Dutchman and tried to dump it! I thought I could just dump it in a second, but it was really not that quick and easy to do. The boat eventually went over, we got wet, we uprighted the boat, bailed out the water and sailed back to the dock. That was the last of my heeling fears. I learned a lot from the experience and knew that no matter what, I could deal with the situation. That gave me a great deal of confidence, as well as know how. I haven't dumped a boat since and I bury the rails on San Francisco Bay in my Hunter 25 every chance I get. I'm quite comfortable even in the ugliest situations because I know that if something does happen, I'm prepared to deal with it and can handle it. It's worth a try. Maybe start with a Laser! Good Luck!
THANKS!
Thanks to all of you for the postings. It is encouraging to know that I am not alone! I will share your opinions (except for the "dump her" idea) with my wife. We're working on our fourteenth year of marriage, and I can't imagine sailing without her. Thanks again!
Thanks to all of you for the postings. It is encouraging to know that I am not alone! I will share your opinions (except for the "dump her" idea) with my wife. We're working on our fourteenth year of marriage, and I can't imagine sailing without her. Thanks again!
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