I am looking into buying a Catalina 36, I need some information as too which would be best for sailing open water, and great lakes. I understand the dif in draft and finding a place to anchor, but interested in how the two sail when compared.
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For big water . . .
All other things considered equal, I'd recommend the fin keel for stability, safety and windward performance. I have a shoal draft (3'-9") H28, but I keep my boat moored on a small side river near the mouth of the Sheepscot River in Maine. The water can get pretty thin there so the shoal draft is better in my situation. If the water was deeper, I would have gone with a fin keel. A good dingy with a small outboard will make up for any extra distance you need to stay away from shore. You are lucky not to have tides on the Great Lakes -- we get 9 foot tides where I am.
All other things considered equal, I'd recommend the fin keel for stability, safety and windward performance. I have a shoal draft (3'-9") H28, but I keep my boat moored on a small side river near the mouth of the Sheepscot River in Maine. The water can get pretty thin there so the shoal draft is better in my situation. If the water was deeper, I would have gone with a fin keel. A good dingy with a small outboard will make up for any extra distance you need to stay away from shore. You are lucky not to have tides on the Great Lakes -- we get 9 foot tides where I am.
keels
All things being equal, the fin keel will point higher and generally outperform the wing keel. But with the low water levels in the Great Lakes, you have to decide if you want the convenience of a wing.
All things being equal, the fin keel will point higher and generally outperform the wing keel. But with the low water levels in the Great Lakes, you have to decide if you want the convenience of a wing.
Fins and Wings
I have no personal experience. But, the guy I bought my boat from had just bought a boat with a wing keel. His comments: 1.If you bottom out the wing goes into the mud just like an anchor. You might lean a boat with fin keel. But, that plow is set. 2. ...got the anchor rode wrapped around the wing once. That ____ ____ water was cold. "Wish I had a fin keel that morning.
I have no personal experience. But, the guy I bought my boat from had just bought a boat with a wing keel. His comments: 1.If you bottom out the wing goes into the mud just like an anchor. You might lean a boat with fin keel. But, that plow is set. 2. ...got the anchor rode wrapped around the wing once. That ____ ____ water was cold. "Wish I had a fin keel that morning.
Look at re-sale
The dealer where I purchased my boat sell 8:1 wing vs fin. So I bought a wing. I know I'll eventually sell and so will you so if fins are the choice where you sail buy a fin and if it's wings buy a wing..
The dealer where I purchased my boat sell 8:1 wing vs fin. So I bought a wing. I know I'll eventually sell and so will you so if fins are the choice where you sail buy a fin and if it's wings buy a wing..
Tender is as tender does
I owned a Catalina 30 with 5' fin keel and a Hunter 37.5 Legend with 4' 9" wing keel. The Catalina was clearly stiffer. I think they both point about the same but the rigs are quite different so that may not be a valid comparison. I personnaly would like our Hunter to be stiffer but that would take all the fun out of anchoring with the keel. Wing keels are also real solid when the wind blows the water out of the Bay and we ground up at the slip.
I owned a Catalina 30 with 5' fin keel and a Hunter 37.5 Legend with 4' 9" wing keel. The Catalina was clearly stiffer. I think they both point about the same but the rigs are quite different so that may not be a valid comparison. I personnaly would like our Hunter to be stiffer but that would take all the fun out of anchoring with the keel. Wing keels are also real solid when the wind blows the water out of the Bay and we ground up at the slip.
thanks
thanks for all the replys, help make the decision tougher....lol..but has giving me more to think about. I have been leaning to a fin, but have some new thoughts on a wing. so thanks to all my fellow sailors out there. This is why I love sail, and its community, sailors always come together. Thanks, Bear
thanks for all the replys, help make the decision tougher....lol..but has giving me more to think about. I have been leaning to a fin, but have some new thoughts on a wing. so thanks to all my fellow sailors out there. This is why I love sail, and its community, sailors always come together. Thanks, Bear
Danforth Keel
Don't get the wing unless you need to sail in skinny water. The design of early Catalina wings leaves a lot to be desired
Don't get the wing unless you need to sail in skinny water. The design of early Catalina wings leaves a lot to be desired
wing keel
I don't know the Catalina wing keel, but I had an O'Day 272LE with a wing keel which I enjoyed very much. It sailed well, pointed well and was not overly tender. We did occasionally touch the sandy bottom and there was never an issue except that you could not employ the technique of heeling it hard to get off the shoal. There is a real benefit to being able to go into thin water as a cruiser, so don't rule it out. I would be very reluctant to play games like changing the configuration without advice from a competent naval architect.
I don't know the Catalina wing keel, but I had an O'Day 272LE with a wing keel which I enjoyed very much. It sailed well, pointed well and was not overly tender. We did occasionally touch the sandy bottom and there was never an issue except that you could not employ the technique of heeling it hard to get off the shoal. There is a real benefit to being able to go into thin water as a cruiser, so don't rule it out. I would be very reluctant to play games like changing the configuration without advice from a competent naval architect.
Don't know if this happens often but
Don't know if this happens often but a Catalina 25 with a wing keel sits in the local yard with a huge hole where the wing keel use to be. Look unrepairable to me and why it is still there after about 4 years. They recovered the keel and it sits next to it.
Don't know if this happens often but a Catalina 25 with a wing keel sits in the local yard with a huge hole where the wing keel use to be. Look unrepairable to me and why it is still there after about 4 years. They recovered the keel and it sits next to it.
NYSail
The keel was designed and built by Mars Metal in Canada. They are the current builders for Hunter. At the time the keel cost me $5k and the installation a couple more. My old wing keel had been damaged after a north east storm grounding. The insurance picked up the tab less my deductible.
The keel was designed and built by Mars Metal in Canada. They are the current builders for Hunter. At the time the keel cost me $5k and the installation a couple more. My old wing keel had been damaged after a north east storm grounding. The insurance picked up the tab less my deductible.
fins
we ran aground last fall and were stuck pretty tight. My daughter in law and I held onto the boom and my wife ran the motor.With a little heel we were off and sailing. Here around PC there is a lot of shallow water and unless you are very careful and very lucky you will run aground. The wing kel looks a lot like an anchor. Assuming that you want a wing to go into shallower water you will get stuck. If you have a good tide be sure to get stuck when the tide is rising. We did that once. While I was worrying about getting off the tide rose and we simply floated off.
we ran aground last fall and were stuck pretty tight. My daughter in law and I held onto the boom and my wife ran the motor.With a little heel we were off and sailing. Here around PC there is a lot of shallow water and unless you are very careful and very lucky you will run aground. The wing kel looks a lot like an anchor. Assuming that you want a wing to go into shallower water you will get stuck. If you have a good tide be sure to get stuck when the tide is rising. We did that once. While I was worrying about getting off the tide rose and we simply floated off.
wing keel
My experience with my wing keel was certainly not that it dug in any more than anything else, and in a sandy bottom it typically rode up on the bottom rather than digging in. I just avoided the heeling approach because I did not want to risk damaging the keel, but it certainly did not behave like an anchor.
My experience with my wing keel was certainly not that it dug in any more than anything else, and in a sandy bottom it typically rode up on the bottom rather than digging in. I just avoided the heeling approach because I did not want to risk damaging the keel, but it certainly did not behave like an anchor.
Vegetation?
We have a wing on our H23. I’ve never hit bottom so I don’t know how that would go but we have a couple of shallow areas in our lake where the vegetation grows nearly to the surface. The wing will surely catch it’s share of crap running through those areas. I have to heave to and let her back off the weeds to clear the keel. I’m sure a fin would cut right through but then it would probably hit bottom too.
We have a wing on our H23. I’ve never hit bottom so I don’t know how that would go but we have a couple of shallow areas in our lake where the vegetation grows nearly to the surface. The wing will surely catch it’s share of crap running through those areas. I have to heave to and let her back off the weeds to clear the keel. I’m sure a fin would cut right through but then it would probably hit bottom too.
alan I have fin
reading my last post it is easy to see how one might think that I have a wing keel. But I have a fin keel with modest draft of 4.5'. At times I've wanted less draft but overall I am happy with our pearson 323. tom
reading my last post it is easy to see how one might think that I have a wing keel. But I have a fin keel with modest draft of 4.5'. At times I've wanted less draft but overall I am happy with our pearson 323. tom
Been there....and GOT the tee shirt...
Yup...I've got one of those bulb keels on my 34 C&C... Installed by the P.O., similar to the one pictured in this thread but less the wings. The 34 is to my understanding a tender boat by C&C standard anyway...and I'm certain this mod did nothing for it. I believe the original draft was something like 6'6"...way to deep for the St Johns River on a regular basis and so I bought into this one which was 'bobbed' to a 5' draft...also done by Mars Metals. The 18" that was removed amounted to 1100# and the thru-bolted, two-piece torpedo that sandwiches the remaining keel amounted to 1300# in order to somewhat offset the lessened moment arm on the shorter draft. This boat likes the 10-18* heel range and I find it easily overpowered. The roller main and jib accomodate the need to reduce sail when over about 15 knots of wind. If you contemplating doing this on your boat...LISTEN to what Mars will tell you as there are trade-offs to doing it like diminished pointing-ability and more tender..as has been noted by others here and I can agree with. Moderation is the key. On the other hand, I could not use a boat in the river with a draft exceeding 5' on a regular basis unless I powered along in the channel. When we were sailing the Mug Race a couple of years ago I was busy trimming when I should have been navigating around the sandbar....oops.. Wife claims to have seen 2' on the depth...but it was likely somewhat nosed in at that point... It took two good sized boats to get us off...one on the bow and another took a halyard from atop the mast...and two good grunts to dislodge us... I would suggest using in the future a spin-halyard,(or something other than the main halyard in my case), as it can damage some hardware up there if not paying attention. Another suggestion to those that go aground... don't let the 'tipping' boat get farther back than forward of mid-ship.... I found that when I was fortunate enough to make forward progress...the 'tipping' boat fell to stern as I moved...putting me in a cross fire of pulling the bow forward...and the mast top to rear...and having no control of either party... It could have been a LOT worse than the little damage to the jib halyard guide... live and learn. I did however get a Mug Race tee shirt to commemorate the event.
Yup...I've got one of those bulb keels on my 34 C&C... Installed by the P.O., similar to the one pictured in this thread but less the wings. The 34 is to my understanding a tender boat by C&C standard anyway...and I'm certain this mod did nothing for it. I believe the original draft was something like 6'6"...way to deep for the St Johns River on a regular basis and so I bought into this one which was 'bobbed' to a 5' draft...also done by Mars Metals. The 18" that was removed amounted to 1100# and the thru-bolted, two-piece torpedo that sandwiches the remaining keel amounted to 1300# in order to somewhat offset the lessened moment arm on the shorter draft. This boat likes the 10-18* heel range and I find it easily overpowered. The roller main and jib accomodate the need to reduce sail when over about 15 knots of wind. If you contemplating doing this on your boat...LISTEN to what Mars will tell you as there are trade-offs to doing it like diminished pointing-ability and more tender..as has been noted by others here and I can agree with. Moderation is the key. On the other hand, I could not use a boat in the river with a draft exceeding 5' on a regular basis unless I powered along in the channel. When we were sailing the Mug Race a couple of years ago I was busy trimming when I should have been navigating around the sandbar....oops.. Wife claims to have seen 2' on the depth...but it was likely somewhat nosed in at that point... It took two good sized boats to get us off...one on the bow and another took a halyard from atop the mast...and two good grunts to dislodge us... I would suggest using in the future a spin-halyard,(or something other than the main halyard in my case), as it can damage some hardware up there if not paying attention. Another suggestion to those that go aground... don't let the 'tipping' boat get farther back than forward of mid-ship.... I found that when I was fortunate enough to make forward progress...the 'tipping' boat fell to stern as I moved...putting me in a cross fire of pulling the bow forward...and the mast top to rear...and having no control of either party... It could have been a LOT worse than the little damage to the jib halyard guide... live and learn. I did however get a Mug Race tee shirt to commemorate the event.
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