Filler..... advise needed

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,148
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hello all..... so sanding my rudder down I notice a crack in the leading edge. Rudder sounds fine and tested dry with meter. But I slowly ground down crack to see how deep it was. So it appears to me that one of the p/o (2) hit something and had it filled.... only a good ding. Now what is the best product to use to fill the area I ground down. It’s only at the most 1/8 inch deep.

thanks!

greg
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,100
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Did you grind into the laminate? Is the crack vertical along the seam? Have you checked the keel and the hull around the keel stump?

A photo would help.
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,148
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
Did you grind into the laminate? Is the crack vertical along the seam? Have you checked the keel and the hull around the keel stump?

A photo would help.
Will snap a photo today...... went about 1/8 inch into fiberglass. Rudder is solid with no movement shaft is perfect. Keel is steel...... no marks on it and all is tight and sound with attachment. Looks like a small repair job with a filler that basically cracked over the years. Again it’s on the leading edge and port side. All fine on starboard side.
 

capta

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Jun 4, 2009
4,957
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I would put a couple layers of cloth on it rather than try and fill it. I'd be constantly worried by a rudder that might have spit out the filler and could fail from the problem. A rudder has a great deal of torque on it at times.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,497
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I watched this video by Andy, yesterday. He talks about filler both above and below the water line. Info may be helpful.
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,148
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
So having a fiberglass guy look this over when he is filling 2 abandoned thru hull fittings.

AA484893-DD6C-4941-BAA4-DD8EB79CD398.jpeg
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,100
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
So having a fiberglass guy look this over when he is filling 2 abandoned thru hull fittings.

View attachment 177485
That is an interesting crack. I'm assuming the image was posted rotated and the crack is horizontal.

If this were my boat, I would grind that out to a 12:1 bevel and lay up enough glass cloth (not mat) and epoxy to fill the area and then fair, barrier coat and bottom paint.
 
Jun 14, 2010
2,381
Robertson & Caine 2017 Leopard 40 CT
That is an interesting crack. I'm assuming the image was posted rotated and the crack is horizontal.

If this were my boat, I would grind that out to a 12:1 bevel and lay up enough glass cloth (not mat) and epoxy to fill the area and then fair, barrier coat and bottom paint.
:thumbup: This sounds like good advice. That is much wider than I expected, from your original description. You need to replace the skin layers, and glass reinforcement would probably be structurally critical.
 
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NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,148
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
I opened it up a bit more prior to this photo.... The rudder has no play, post is straight and rudder rotates with no variation gap between hull and rudder. Inside at quadrant, everything is fine with no signs of damage or repairs.... I compared mine with the rudder of another 423 and they look and feel identical..... it is a one owner boat so history is known. Guess that is good assuming he hasn't hit anything and is not telling.....
 
Jan 11, 2014
13,100
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I opened it up a bit more prior to this photo.... The rudder has no play, post is straight and rudder rotates with no variation gap between hull and rudder. Inside at quadrant, everything is fine with no signs of damage or repairs.... I compared mine with the rudder of another 423 and they look and feel identical..... it is a one owner boat so history is known. Guess that is good assuming he hasn't hit anything and is not telling.....
What I would be concerned about is the lateral forces on the rudder and there being a weak spot. That crack may act like a kerf in a piece of wood that is bent. Grinding it open a bit more and glassing it would make it stronger and is not that big a job. The rudder is kind of a critical part of the boat.
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,666
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I doesn't look like collision damage to me. If anything I might worry that the foam inside the rudder has a structural problem. As Dave suggested beveling the repair edges back to something like 12 times the laminate thickness would be a pretty strong repair. But that doesn't address potential structural weakness inside.
Ever try to drive a fin keel boat without a rudder? I have. We had the rudder snap off on a Tartan 33 years ago in a race. The boat was very near uncontrollable. If you keep the speed up it almost works. But trying to turn the boat into the wind was nearly impossible. The rudder broke in a clean shear about 12 inches under water. Horizontal shear. See what your glass guy says.
 

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,148
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
I doesn't look like collision damage to me. If anything I might worry that the foam inside the rudder has a structural problem. As Dave suggested beveling the repair edges back to something like 12 times the laminate thickness would be a pretty strong repair. But that doesn't address potential structural weakness inside.
Ever try to drive a fin keel boat without a rudder? I have. We had the rudder snap off on a Tartan 33 years ago in a race. The boat was very near uncontrollable. If you keep the speed up it almost works. But trying to turn the boat into the wind was nearly impossible. The rudder broke in a clean shear about 12 inches under water. Horizontal shear. See what your glass guy says.
When I bought the boat 4 years ago rudder was dry and sound. 2 weeks ago when I first saw I had my friend come down with his moisture meter and again bone dry. Solid and sounds good throughout. No noticeable movement in rudder...... Also, when I was grinding it I was slowly taking layers off.... everything appeared fine with only the crack and no signs of stress flexing that might occur if it were just hanging on. But I am sure when things decide to go they just do. And again, its only on the port side. I am going to do the repair as suggested for this season. Next year I will drop rudder and have it checked out.

Yea the thought of sailing without a rudder is not appealing.

Thanks all

Greg