Feasible upgrades or hair-brained ideas?

[McZube]

There are two upgrades I was wondering about:

My boat has a fresh water holding tank. It's useful for providing fresh water when anchored or underway, but I keep it empty at the dock. I've seen other boats that have a port for pressure water at dockside. Could I add a pressure water port for use at dockside and install a "Y" valve just downstream of the water pump to select water from the tank or from the dock?

Also, it would be awesome to have an onboard generator to run A/C, water heater and coffee maker when anchored. I started thinking about the prospect of installing a gas driven generator, having to maintain a separate engine, fuel system, etc. Then I started wondering whether a belt-driven generator could be added to the main engine. It's a Yanmar 2-cyl which is about as efficient as any gas engine. Is this upgrade feasible?

Thanks.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Sorry ....... But Can't Offer Much Suport .....

........ for either proposed upgrade.

Connecting an external water supply to your boat presents an excellent opportunity to sink it in the event of a fitting disconnecting when you are away. Remember, your boat is really rockin' and rollin' when you're out in heavy weather and fittings can eventually loosen. Should your pressure reducing valve fail open, you'll really test your fittings . Any reason why you want to keep the tank empty at the dock ?

For the generator, Yanmar 2GM20F's don't like to be idled for extended periods. Carboned rings, carboned valves, and carboned etceteras. Any alternator you added would have to be 110V and looking at mine, I think that mounting an additional alternator would be difficult at the very least.

Just remember, once you've eliminated all the hair-brained ideas, you'll finally have something that works .

 

[Lost Parent]

Did the city water upgrade and works super , most newer boats have this done when new . If you have a Surflow water pump they have a one way check valve put in and do not need any extra vavlves just tee in downsream of the pump

 

[Lost Parent]

Just remember to turn dock water supply off when leaving boat for any time

 

[McZube]

Any reason why you want to keep the tank empty at the dock ?

I've found that water stored in the tank, even treated water, becomes rotten over the span of a couple of weeks.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I've found that water stored in the tank, even treated water, becomes rotten over the span of a couple of weeks.

How very true. Every year we manage to pick up some really funky water at far northerrn marinas. For that very reason, we only use the tank water for washing. All drinking water is carried in 5 gal. containers neatly stowed away. Bit of a pain, but who knows what's growing in the tank ................... but I can often hear them at night .

 

[Bill Roosa]

The pressure water system can have a shore water (w/pressure regulator) plumbed with a Tee. You don't tap into the low pressure lines from the tank to the fresh water pump you tap in after the pump. And leave the shore water turned off when away from the boat.
I'm thinking that to run AC and hot water will require a genset. If on the other hand you are considering a sailing lifestyle (not a land lifestyle while on a boat) the try the following:
as you approch the anchorage start the motor and drop the sails about 20 minutes out. The hot water the motor generates will tide you over till morning with some conservation. AC while at anchor is much harder to do without a genset. I have found that 12 volt fans and home made sun shades for the whole deck area forward of the bimini to be a pretty good workaround. Several years ago it was averaging 95-100 degrees at the dock (I was a live aboard) and when I got tires of sweating I made the sunshades. The temp dropped about 10 degrees and the cabin overhead did not have that "heat soaked" effect once the sun went down. They have the additional benefit of allowing you to keep the vents/ports open when it rains which helps greatly to keep the stuffiness down below. For the rest of the electrical needs an inverter (suitably sized and backed up with a battery bank that can support your needs) is the best solution.
If you have to have AC then what you really need is a bigger boat. A 31' is going to be hard pressed to accommodate AC and a genset volume wise. think of all the beer you will not be able to take!!!!!!

 

[25yearslater]

Have you considered a generator and electric motor for propulsion like locomotives use?

 

[Big Windy]

Re your proposal for the water system. Check with an RV supply store, all RVs have what you are suggesting. www.campingworld.com

 

[RAD]

I always use the water from the tank and its fresh and clean although I have a city water hookup I never use it cause of fear of something leaking and even though I would shut it off when I left the boat there were times I did forget, I have found it best to use up the water from the tank and refill with fresh when empty
here's a link for advice on how to DIY
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...1151&catalogId=10001&page=Fresh-water-Systems

 

[srhummer]

Pier water is on my ToDo's list also. I have even purchased some of the items needed reducer/tee but not had the time to do it yet. I ran into another idea that I think has merit - using a flow meter at the pier - you set if for the number of Gals and once you get there it shuts off (can't sink the boat this way if you go down the pier to share a beer and a water line pops) only down side is having to reset it after it trips. Do turn off pier water when you leave the boat. They have them at all the big box stores and cost about $12- here is a link of an example - http://www.amazon.com/Melnor-Inc-Flowmeter-Water-Timer/dp/B00176FFJC
I have used them on my yard before with great success - be sure to also use a pressure reducer since the internal boat plumbing is not made to take pier pressure. Best of luck!!!!

 

[anchorclanker]

An add on belt driven generator could be either AC or DC, its really your choice within reason. Like how much room you have, how much power do you need, and how hard do you want to run the engine. An 115V AC generator really needs to be governed tightly at the specified RPM of the Generator to keep the cycles at 60. An alternative would be a DC generator and run AC power off an inverter. That would allow you to use the current engine throttle as is and greatly simplify the setup.

Ralph made a point about idling. Its really bad for a diesel. But if you spin it up a ways and keep a decent load on it it wont bother it much. And if you get it out and run it hard once in a while a little idling wont hurt it much either.

 

[Deadline]

I'm with Ralph

1. Anything that can sink a boat should be avoided at all costs. See Murphy's Law.

2. Ralph's objection to the generator is spot on. I'm supposed to replace my mixing elblow on Yanmarr 18 every 500 hours, but had to do it last week at only 300 hours because it clogged up. Even though I run at optimal RPM of 2800, I sail 100 days a year and therefore make 200 runs in and out of the harbord at lower RPM. That clogged it at 300 hours. A generator would merely hasten the demise of the mixing elbow.

 

[CapeDave]

Thinking outside the box?

I don't know about adding yet another hole for water to get into the boat, not to mention not all dock water is that great. Bottled water works fine for me. I've been a live aboard and keeping the sun off the deck will help a lot to keep the boat cool. I'm on mooring so one of the advantages I have is that the bow is always pointed into the breeze and the ventilation is good so I've never had a need for AC but then again I live in New England so it's not like being on board in Florida in the summer.

Now for an idea outside the box? In stead of hooking up a generator to the diesel anyone ever think of using an automotive AC system ?

Dave
1970 Cal-29
Wind Drifter

 

[Granfalloon]

Re: Thinking outside the box?

How about a Honda or Yamaha generator - with an adapter connected to your shore power. The 1000 watt should work fine. Will everything but not a microwave if you have one. A 2000 watt would handle this, batteries, refrigerator, lights and fans albeit heavier than the 1000.

Both brands are quiet, use very little fuel, and produce clean electrical A/C.

And you use it for emergency power at home.

Just don't let them sit with old fuel, use a fuel stabilizer (ie ethanol shield); and run them to empty at the end of the season.

Water pressure - I would want a shutoff valve when not onboard.

 

[dparilla]

We have a Honda EU2000 companion on board. Allows the 30 amp plug to connect directly to it. it will provide power for everything EXCEPT the air conditioner. You would need at least a 3000 watt generator to power a 16K BTU a/c. We also have a a 90 amp alternator, a 450 amp hour battery bank and a 2000 watt inverter so most of the time, we run off batteries, and charge when running the engine. We use the generator only when on the hook and away from dock power for an extended time to lessen low load impacts to the diesel engine. The other benefit to the Eu2000 companion is that we could hook up a second EU2000 in parallel for a nice 4kw setup. My plan is only to use that feature on shore for emergency power.

I thought about the city water hookup, but I used Peggy's advice about commissioning a water system (bleach and rinse) and use her method twice a season and we have no issues with water on board. Lastly I would advise not leaving water tanks empty unless you are sure they are dry (like over the winter). The high moisture environment of an "empty" tank is a breeding ground for all sorts of crud. You will get fewer stink producing nasties keepin the tank full and using it frequently.

 

[McQueen Smith]

AC in DC environment

Reading the other posts, you should be aware the water is heated by your exhaust, so bathing has some very hot water on my 1984 Hunter 31- Be careful.
Coffee is best made on the grill, but I installed a 2000 watt (Max 4000) inverter, and found the 12 volt coffee maker vs the inverter made coffee to take about the same amount of battery power. (Run the motor for that cup of coffee!)
For TV, the inverter worked very well. To watch a game at anchor was nice. I never tried the microwave though.
Air conditioning is something else though. I would suggest a heat pump type that runs on shore power, to prevent your boat from freezing and thus allowing you to leave water in your tanks, while also having cooling in the summer months. Another real plus, is the reduced moisture inside, year round.
There is a "swamp cooler" type of system, that used the deep colder water to cool fan pushed air, but I never invested in that.
In my Hunter 31, there really was no room for a genset, and most do not use diesel fuel. A friend tried the Honda Generator mentioned and found it was not sufficient for the "Start up" power required to initiate the air conditioner.
I did invest in a mister system to keep crew and passengers cooler when sailing, and it worked very well. I placed a "T" fitting at near the helm and turned off the leeward side with each tack.
I hope this helps you!

 

[Bob Camarena]

but not a microwave if you have one.

A 1,000 watt Honda generator will run a small microwave just fine. We do it all the time in our travel trailer with our 1,000 watt Honda. I think that anything larger would be too heavy to manhandle around a boat. Like outboards, what seems OK at the store, is much heavier on board. Also, don't be tempted by off-brand cheapies. You can't go wrong with a Honda. Generators are noisiest downwind from the exhaust so be careful where you point it and limit your running time as much as possible. Nothing can spoil a quiet anchorage quicker than even the quietest generator.

I assume that, where you sail, each slip has it's own water spigot. This is not the case here in the California Delta. I wouldn't be happy if I pulled in and someone was hogging the closest spigot for their water supply.

 

[RobertLangdirect]

Have you considered a generator and electric motor for propulsion like locomotives use?

I think the locomotive engine would be a bit overkill but, then, thinking of it, he coud cut out the existing keel and fair in a wider but none the less symetric foi. Then, use the diesel-electric in place of the 2000 to 3000 pounds of lead or iron that went away with the original keel.

 

[DJW]

The builders/first owners of our 42' Cascade were both Boeing engineers. Originally the boat had a belt driven generator and the whole electrical panel to go with it. You could even adjust the altanator out put for charging the 12 volt battery bank while the engine was driving the belt driven 110 generator. While the 2nd owner owned the boat the jack shaft froze on the generator and he replaced it with a 6Kw Northeren Light Genset. The belt driven setup required a 2 belt pulley be attached to the water pump which over time caused the water pump to take a dump. We had a spare water pump onboard which was nice given that the engine is a Mercedes Benz OMB 636 4 cy diesel which means you do not run down to the parts store and get a replacment. When we replaced the water pump we replaced the the pulley with a single belt pulley setup to eliminate the stress on the WP. The dock side city water setup goes through a 40-50 psi regulator before being attached to the boat. Once attached to the boat it goes into a check valve setup that has a washer infront of it which has been designed/enginered to allow no more water in then the bilge pump can pump out in a (2,500 gallons) given hour The water line then goes down into a 15 gallon pressure tank which can be pressurized with a bicycle tire pump. The water line then goes forward through a Y valve which allows for the fresh water tanks under the vberth to be filled or to pressurize the fresh water system.

Dennis