All else being equal: which Catalina 22 setup is the faster boat?: Swing keel vs Wing or Fin keel? Also I have heard boats made during 1982 through 2000 were slower than boats made during the 1970s or the more recent offerings? Any hints from Racers on what is best base boat to purchase for racing purposes? Setup, accessories or rigging suggestions?? Please respond!!!
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Brad Alston
Racing C22's
It is a goal of mine to race my C22 at some point (no pun intended)! Now that you know I'm not a seasoned racer, here is what I have been able to surmise. 1.) The MkII fin keel is the fastest of them all! So fast, comparatively speaking, that you can not race with the rest of the class (basically outlawed)...and maybe that's just particular versions of the MkII. Non-class racing should yield pretty good results on corrected time. 2.) The older boats ('70s models) are lighter/faster than the newer boats. 3.) Wing keeled '22s do not point as well as either the fin or swing varieties with the swing pointing a little higher due to the depth and aspect ratio of the keel (again, this is only my opinion). 4.) The wing keel is a bit faster downwind due to the shallower draft. 5.) Rig the running lines to lead aft into the cockpit. Opinions vary on exactly the best position for winches, cleats, and brakes. Make things as simple and efficient as possible (but I think that may hold for all boats!?). 6.) It's hard to make "all things equal" because of so many variables involved! Oh...my C22? It's a 1972 swing keel that needs a good bottom job, new sails, and some new harware to make it competitive. It has been a lot of fun the way it is! Great boat! In case you wanted the one design class rules, check out the provided link.
It is a goal of mine to race my C22 at some point (no pun intended)! Now that you know I'm not a seasoned racer, here is what I have been able to surmise. 1.) The MkII fin keel is the fastest of them all! So fast, comparatively speaking, that you can not race with the rest of the class (basically outlawed)...and maybe that's just particular versions of the MkII. Non-class racing should yield pretty good results on corrected time. 2.) The older boats ('70s models) are lighter/faster than the newer boats. 3.) Wing keeled '22s do not point as well as either the fin or swing varieties with the swing pointing a little higher due to the depth and aspect ratio of the keel (again, this is only my opinion). 4.) The wing keel is a bit faster downwind due to the shallower draft. 5.) Rig the running lines to lead aft into the cockpit. Opinions vary on exactly the best position for winches, cleats, and brakes. Make things as simple and efficient as possible (but I think that may hold for all boats!?). 6.) It's hard to make "all things equal" because of so many variables involved! Oh...my C22? It's a 1972 swing keel that needs a good bottom job, new sails, and some new harware to make it competitive. It has been a lot of fun the way it is! Great boat! In case you wanted the one design class rules, check out the provided link.
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Michael McCann
Fastest C22
Brian; What part of Idaho are you in? There is an organization in Boise called SISA, So. Idaho Sailing Assoc.. There used to be a lot of C22's in that group. Another good resource on the 22 is the C22 National Assoc.. Their contact info is in the Main Sheet magazine. If you own a Catalina you should subscribe to the Main Sheet. It is aimed at all Catalina's, Capri's, and a catamaran that I can't remember (I'm sorta Jaded). Also Brad is pretty much right on with his ideas. I remember the gung ho racers in the 80's only wanting an early swing keeled boat. I don't remember hearing about racing a fin C22, and this was all before wing keels on the Catalina's. Michael
Brian; What part of Idaho are you in? There is an organization in Boise called SISA, So. Idaho Sailing Assoc.. There used to be a lot of C22's in that group. Another good resource on the 22 is the C22 National Assoc.. Their contact info is in the Main Sheet magazine. If you own a Catalina you should subscribe to the Main Sheet. It is aimed at all Catalina's, Capri's, and a catamaran that I can't remember (I'm sorta Jaded). Also Brad is pretty much right on with his ideas. I remember the gung ho racers in the 80's only wanting an early swing keeled boat. I don't remember hearing about racing a fin C22, and this was all before wing keels on the Catalina's. Michael
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Brian Rader
Thanks Brad
Brad, Thanks for your detailed response. Good info. I have heard that the boats up to and including 1983 are lighter and competitive with other older, as well as the newer (2000 - present), boats. I just want to be sure to get a boat that is light enough to be competitive, and new enough and in good enough shape to not turn into a big money pit. Part of me would like to get a new boat, but at $17000 for a reasonably equipped Cat22 ( motor, etc.), I just can't rationalize that kind of money. Would like to buy late 80s/early 90s to get newer boat, but everyone keeps telling me to avoid due to weight/slowness. Soooo, I'll take my chances with older boat
Brad, Thanks for your detailed response. Good info. I have heard that the boats up to and including 1983 are lighter and competitive with other older, as well as the newer (2000 - present), boats. I just want to be sure to get a boat that is light enough to be competitive, and new enough and in good enough shape to not turn into a big money pit. Part of me would like to get a new boat, but at $17000 for a reasonably equipped Cat22 ( motor, etc.), I just can't rationalize that kind of money. Would like to buy late 80s/early 90s to get newer boat, but everyone keeps telling me to avoid due to weight/slowness. Soooo, I'll take my chances with older boat
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Aldo
Thanks Brad from Aldo
Brad: Thanks for your response. I didn't want to give my opinion on my original question, because I wanted to get some responses, and I didn't want to be attacked. But I generally agree with your thoughts. I don't know what a MkII is, so I really can't say if I ever sailed near one. My C-22 is an '80, with a swing keel, so I guess it would be grouped with the 70's boats. I recently did sail with a winged keeled C-22, a 1987, and I agree with you that it did not point as well as my boat, and it was slower on every point of sail. I did have better sails though, which supports your comment that there are too many variables to make "all things equal". (I had individual jibs, storm, 110, and drifter, instead of a roller furling jib.) As to your comment about the bottom of your boat. I do paint the bottom of mine myself, and although I really hate doing it, I have been told by many people that it is worth it because of the care that I take in doing it myself. Thanks again for your comments. Aldo
Brad: Thanks for your response. I didn't want to give my opinion on my original question, because I wanted to get some responses, and I didn't want to be attacked. But I generally agree with your thoughts. I don't know what a MkII is, so I really can't say if I ever sailed near one. My C-22 is an '80, with a swing keel, so I guess it would be grouped with the 70's boats. I recently did sail with a winged keeled C-22, a 1987, and I agree with you that it did not point as well as my boat, and it was slower on every point of sail. I did have better sails though, which supports your comment that there are too many variables to make "all things equal". (I had individual jibs, storm, 110, and drifter, instead of a roller furling jib.) As to your comment about the bottom of your boat. I do paint the bottom of mine myself, and although I really hate doing it, I have been told by many people that it is worth it because of the care that I take in doing it myself. Thanks again for your comments. Aldo
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Randy
Is the MKll faster
I own one of the few built, MKll fins.. The boat was blacked balled by the association because of its keel design, not for its speed....The fin keel for the MKll is the same design of the Capri 22, the racing version of the 22 line...the MKll is also 8 inches wider than the older 22 with a rounder shape in the freeboard... I do race mine, with good results even though the local PHRF committee has bumped it 9 seconds per mile to a 261 rating... But you have to understand, after the origional cost of 15,000., I have spent another 10,000 upgrading the rigging and the purchase of custom designed sails...In Kevlar... I take first or second in most of the races I enter but anyone that has ever raced with me will state, we put out 110 % when the gun goes off... I wouldnt rush right out and buy a 22 to go racing, there are faster boats, and for ocean racing (which I do alot of) there are better boats, the 22 is a good all round boat with the ability to race..... Pick the boat for the area you live, If the winds are light, find an early model, down in the double diggits, if the winds are strong, you'll be able to fly more sail area with one of the newer style heaver boats... If you would like, drop me a line at windward@softcom.net and I'll send some pictures of the MKll fin.... Randy
I own one of the few built, MKll fins.. The boat was blacked balled by the association because of its keel design, not for its speed....The fin keel for the MKll is the same design of the Capri 22, the racing version of the 22 line...the MKll is also 8 inches wider than the older 22 with a rounder shape in the freeboard... I do race mine, with good results even though the local PHRF committee has bumped it 9 seconds per mile to a 261 rating... But you have to understand, after the origional cost of 15,000., I have spent another 10,000 upgrading the rigging and the purchase of custom designed sails...In Kevlar... I take first or second in most of the races I enter but anyone that has ever raced with me will state, we put out 110 % when the gun goes off... I wouldnt rush right out and buy a 22 to go racing, there are faster boats, and for ocean racing (which I do alot of) there are better boats, the 22 is a good all round boat with the ability to race..... Pick the boat for the area you live, If the winds are light, find an early model, down in the double diggits, if the winds are strong, you'll be able to fly more sail area with one of the newer style heaver boats... If you would like, drop me a line at windward@softcom.net and I'll send some pictures of the MKll fin.... Randy
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