F235 Wing Keel Problem

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Dan

Has anybody ever had a problem with the wing section separating from the fin section of the keel? I am about to raise my boat up on the trailer so I can get to the bottom of the keel and try to figure out why it is separating and how to fix it so it won't happen again. Any ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dan F235
 
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Steve C

Mine is ok

Sorry Dan, I have a wing keel too, it's rock solid. Lt us know what you find out.
 
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Kelly Holsten

235 year?

Dan, Do you have any pics of your keel and how it's separated? I have one pic on my site of a keel from below with what looks to be "bolts" going through the bottom. Perhaps this was an earlier year. Mine is totally smooth on the bottom and seems very well attached to the fin section. What year is your boat? I am willing to bet it's an early model around 87 or so. I have seen some say their wings are made from fiberglass but mine appear to be made from iron as well with a fiberglass covering. There were a few posts on the newsgroups relating to this matter with one guy evidently LOSING his wings after hitting a rock on the bottom up north. I would be tempted to call Beneteau directly and ask if the earlier models where attached any differently and what the solution might be. I do know that the guy that lost his wings was met with a VERY high price to replace them so care is needed. See the related link below of the pic of the bottom of a F235 with the bolts on bottom. As I stated, mine is not like this (it'a an 89). http://home.earthlink.net/~beneteau235/images/wing_800.jpg Also, take a look at my LINKS page for the USENET story entitled "BYE BYE WINGS" a ways down the page. Take a look at that thread. See if you can post a shot of your keel so we can see what is up. I would be interested to see what you are talking about. It's definitely a troubling scenerio but I imagine there is a good solution. kh www.beneteau235.com
 
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Dan

keel

I will try to get some pictures tonight. It is definitely bolted from the bottom. I had hoped to find one of the deep fin keels but Beneteau told me they are no longer available. Dan
 
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David Walters

Looks like a retro fit

Slap me silly, but that looks like a fin keel cut down and the wing chunk of a wing keel slapped on. I thought the wing keel on my 1988 was one piece cast.
 
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Dan

wing

If it is a retrofit then it was done with high precision at the joint with a fitting for alignment it looks like. Maybe Beneteau retrofit the early boats to get the wing keel. I sent an e-mail to Beneteau to ask about it.
 
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Kelly Holsten

I dont believe it IS a retrofit...just EARLY model

Please see the picture via the "related link" below. http://home.earthlink.net/~beneteau235/images/wing_keel_800.jpg If you look closely, you will see the EXACT same line as yours where the wing keel attaches to the base/cut-out of the fin. I now believe this is the way it was done on the very early boats, pre-88/89. I have seen several 87 F235 with keels mounted like this now. I think they changed the application AFTER this first year. IF so, this is a VERY important point and one I am going to address on the site. IF it is a retrofit, I believe this is the way the factory was doing it early on. Someone would know. TAke a shot of the keel straight on. Compare to the pics of my keel on the Rusting Iron keel page via my site. Does the leading edge look the same? My keel looks like ONE piece and is very well made besides being rather chunky. The keel in your picture looks like it was in sad need of attention for quite a long time. Unfortunately, this repair looks to be quite a pain to get right. The work on the keel looks to be serious. I would CALL Beneteau as they are VERY brief via email. CALLING works wonders and is HIGHLY recommended. I have never received an email that held near the info as the call to Ward Richardson. Good luck. Kelly www.beneteau235.com
 
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Dan

profile

I will try to get some pictures between storms here but from what I see on your website the profile looks identical from the front and rear except for the joint in mine. Has anyone tried to contact the guy who designed that lead keel? I would be curious to find out how much he would sell another keel for or if he would sells the drawings so that the keel could be made by Mars Metal. Dan
 
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Dan

wing removed

Here is a picture of the wing section that I have now removed from the boat. The heads of the three bolts holding the wing up were completely rusted away. The only thing holding the keel to the boat was the binding of the bolt shafts in the holes combined with the adhesive sealant that was used between the sections (5200?). Once I had pried the wing down a little the bolts were easily removed. Dan
 

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Kelly Holsten

Great Shot - Good work getting that beast off!

Dan, thanks for getting the shots of your wing keel; I am definitely going to dedicate a page on it in my site since I dont think any of this has really been discussed before. Have you heard back from Beneteau yet? You really need to call instead of email as they are very ho-hum in relation to writing a lot via mail. I would really like to know when they changed the mounting method and how it was done on my model. That keel looks like a great candidate for a full sandblasting. I would rent one of those industrial models for $100 for half day. Put rubber on your under hull...throw on the suit, and go at the swine. Any other course looks like hours of labor. How do your keel bolts in boat look? Mine look positively horrible but I hear this is common. I still can get a socket on mine, thought barely. Wade assured me that he has never ONE heard of a keel coming off a Beneteau from the bolts corroding. Thanks for posting the shots. Keep it up and good luck. I will be out of the country for close to a month so wont be on the water till mid-August. Kelly www.beneteau235.com ps- I received a VERY nice email from Leif Beiley about the lead keel he made for that F235. I will post it later. The actual drawing he did is copied on my site. I might post again at a full 1600 pixel resolution. The full size version is already up. He is still doing custom work along with making his Bravura Sportster 29.
 
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Dan

Beneteau's response

I talked to Ward yesterday. He told me that all F235 wing keels were manufactured the same and that they all have the wing bolted on with 3 14mm x 100mm bolts and 5200 sealing the threads and joint between wing and fin. He suggested filling the bolt holes with silicone and then covering and fairing that with epoxy. He also suggested that I use 4200 to seal the threads and wing to fin joint. I think I will then grind and fair out the joint seam when I do the rest of the keel. My keel bolts in the bilge actually don't look bad and I expect I can get a socket on them without trouble. I have definitely seen far worse in another 235. I am going to send an e-mail to Leif Beiley to see if I can get more info and ask if they can still reproduce it and how much it might cost. Dan
 
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David Walters

RE the Leif Bailey keel

Dan, You realize of course you'll be loosing all the shallow draft benefits of the wing keel by going to the Leif Bailey keel, right? For my money, I'd rather have a lead version of the original wing section made and bolt that up. I imagine that would make the boat much stiffer and still provide the draft advantages of the wing. Heck, you might even be able to get the wing done in a bit more efficient design. Check with Mars Metals on this. I'd bet they could come up with a bulb/wing combination that would be a great addition. Of course, I'm no naval architech and adding more weight to the center and aft portion of the keel might not prove structurally sound, but it might be worth investigating.
 
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Dan

Draft not a problem for me.

I know I would be going to a 4.5' draft but the better pointing and stiffer handling are worth the sacrifice of shallow water. I also regularly cruise with several boats in the 6' draft range so I rarely sail into water shallower than that. I don't think the extra weight of a lead bulb on the cast iron fin would be good for the boat. The extra stress on the bolts would be too much I think. The Leif Beiley keel uses a higher aspect for additional lift and reduced drag plus it allows the center of gravity to be shifted lower without adding too much additional weight to the boat which would also slow it down. For now it looks like I am going to reattach the wing with carbon steel grade 5 bolts and completely seal the wing/keel joint and the bolt heads to reduce corrosion. I will fair it all out as smooth as possible with epoxy filler and barrier coat it before bottom painting.
 
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