Eye Splice or Halyard Knot for Class II Core Dependent Line?

Ward H

Ward H

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Nov 7, 2011
3,831
Catalina 30 Mk II Cedar Creek, Bayville NJ
I bought some Samson Warpspeed II 5/16" for use as a main halyard. I had planned to use a halyard knot to attach to the halyard shackle but then read that maybe that is not the best knot for class II line. I think the problem is that you couldn't cut/melt the end of the knot close like you could with regular double braid polyester.

Can I lock whip the end of the line and then use the halyard knot?
Any other suggestions for a knot or is an eye splice the only way to go?
 
woodster

woodster

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Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
i would think that if you lock whip it and use the knot you should be good to go ...i don't see any way for that knot to pull out...the more strain the stronger it holds
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Yes dyneema cored line does not hot-knife cut nearly as well as all-poly dual braid. The dyneema does not really melt, nor does it bind to the cover. I cut the core slightly shorter than the cover and melt that, then then lock the cover to core with a locking whip like you describe.
 
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Brian S

Brian S

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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
This is how you finish off ends for Dyneema or Vectran cored rope:


And this is how to whip lock or whip with frapping turns:

 
Gunni

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
On a bigger boat I would want this to be eye-spliced, but on a 25 footer you should be OK with a halyard knot or similar. Figure on your knot reducing the halyard strength to 60% of rated load.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Gunni said:
On a bigger boat I would want this to be eye-spliced, but on a 25 footer you should be OK with a halyard knot or similar. Figure on your knot reducing the halyard strength to 60% of rated load.
Click to expand
Not such an issue any more with modern dyneema-cored line. Line used to be sized for breaking strength and the knot loss would factor, but now it is sized for stretch as the breaking strength is so very high. The halyard shackles on the Pogo 12.5 (40 footer crazy performance boat) are all done with halyard knots. Even with the loss from the knot, you could still LIFT THE BOAT with the main halyard. Dyneema is crazy strong. Its actually stronger than stainless steel in the same diameter. 10mm Endura has a breaking strength of 11,000 pounds! The load on the head of any mainsail on this forum is less than 20% of that.
 
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Gunni

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
The new low-stretch line options really are amazing. I changed to NER VPC halyards a few years ago to get lower stretch. I was ripping the tops off my sails and the rigger suggested that my stretchy Sta-set halyards were the culprits.
 
Ward H

Ward H

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Nov 7, 2011
3,831
Catalina 30 Mk II Cedar Creek, Bayville NJ
Many thanks guys! With those videos I was able to finish the ends and then whip them with frapping turns to lock the core on my Warpspeed II halyard and another high tech line. I was then able to tie some pretty good halyard hitches.
Here is a photo of the finished ends of the Warpspeed II halyard.
IMG_4096.jpg
 
Brian S

Brian S

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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Good on ya, Ward! That looks right proper and Bristol to me! :D:D:D

Although I have to confess for the Force 5's new control lines, which are polyester covers over Dyneema core, I did not whip and lock stitch, only the cool cover melt. :cool:
 
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