Evergreen

[Tin Kicker]

with no gps/radar screens, charts, binoculars, common language, visibility, view, local knowledge, you suppose that, the helmsman, not following an officers orders is the way to go. really?

Like I wrote, the Captain and pilot's orders must be followed once given.

However, coming into that turn is extremely conspicuous even without charts or other aids. You follow a line of buoys and then another line of buoys goes off to the right. The point of CRM is to recognize that others are resources and allow them to point out potential issues before those become operational problems.

 

[jon hansen]

an able bodied seaman and a ships officer are two totally different jobs. one is licenced the other is not. the AB has no training for the decisions you all want him to make.

and what about the language barriers.

 

[jon hansen]

if you give the helmsman a compass course to steer, is he to be studying the compass or the bouys prolly hidden from view from his location on these container ships.?

 

[Tin Kicker]

an able bodied seaman and a ships officer are two totally different jobs. one is licenced the other is not. the AB has no training for the decisions you all want him to make.

and what about the language barriers.

Agreed they are totally different and there may even be a language barrier. But the fact is that people other than the officer may see a hazard and should be allowed to point it out before an accident. Once they do, the officer still has final word.

The Navy adopted this a while ago and calls it Bridge Resource Management for their ships. While they've had some accidents since, it has helped tremendously in cutting their mishap rate.

 

[jssailem]

Even though that report was from a 1997 event, the discussion leads me too wonder about the safety of flying foreign based airlines. As I recal there was a lot of marketing by Korean Air in the early 2000's. It was regarded as a marketing action. This report leads me to suspect it was an attempt to address a lack of passenger confidence.

 

[jssailem]

may see a hazard and should be allowed to point it out before an accident.

Culture plays a large part in the possibility of that "should" statement ever being considered.

 

[LloydB]

Waypoints and time are a critical factor and making that trip safely. Once the pilot has taken the responsibility for maintaining that route he has also taken on the responsibility for verifying the accuracy of time and position by use of the tools and personnel available. I can easily see where he could be depending on a freeware application on his phone to notify him of critical times and places when it may have failed to do so for any variety of reasons. This brings to mind question is there a Coast Guard approved navigation app? By the way even if there is would it be so good that you could hang your license on it(what about 5 minute updates for instance). Also it has been made clear by national board transportation accident investigations that several accidents have occurred because of time delay in online weather radar displays.

 

[jssailem]

Does anyone think this type of failure may hasten the use of GOVERNMENT APPROVED automated ship handling?

Seems it would be a lot easier to do with a boat than a car.

 

[LloydB]

"Seems it would be a lot easier to do with a boat than a car."
Makes sense I don't recall reading about any pedestrians getting hit with a boat this last year.

 

[rgranger]

"Seems it would be a lot easier to do with a boat than a car."
Makes sense I don't recall reading about any pedestrians getting hit with a boat this last year.

Pedestirans... ???

NO..

 

[LloydB]

Pedestirans... ???
Well yes just thought I'd throw that out as a data point since the last guy that did that got a big write-up and if there was anybody else I figured we would have heard about it.

 

[rgranger]

...the last guy that did that got a big write-up ...