Bill: Put down a deposit on a new Catalina 400 at the Annapolis Sailboat Show (I'm just following my President's suggestion to continue spending!). Catalina has options galore, but the prices are absurd!Over $8000 for a chartplotter/GPS (yours) combo installed by factory! West Marine has same thing for a fraction the cost. I suspect that, just like cars, this is where the dealers make their money. Before I make final decisions on what to have the factory install and what I do myself, I'd appreciate any info you could provide as to ease of owner instillation (radar, chartplotters, etc.), recommendations on electronics (mostly coastal sailing on the Chesapeake Bay w/ forays in next couple years to Maine for summer), etc. In particular, I'm still baffled by the numberous options available in the chartplotter/ electronic chart field. Thanks! Tim L. (current/hopefully soon former owner of) S/V "TIDE"
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a solution and a problem.
Tim: One solution is to only have FACTORY options installed. Anything that the dealer installs can ususally be installed by the owner or you can contract with an independent to do the installation once you find the equipment that you want. The only real problem is if you need to have the boat hauled again or have the mast pulled. The obvious advantage of doing these things when you buy the boat is that you can finance them with the deal. If you have the resources to pay for these after delievery it gives you the advantage of taking your time to figure out the best of the best for the money that you are going to spend. If these options were Factory options, they are usually cheaper than you can purchase and install them. The dealer is selling you these options at full retail, plus labor, plus the overhead, plus "dealer markup".
Tim: One solution is to only have FACTORY options installed. Anything that the dealer installs can ususally be installed by the owner or you can contract with an independent to do the installation once you find the equipment that you want. The only real problem is if you need to have the boat hauled again or have the mast pulled. The obvious advantage of doing these things when you buy the boat is that you can finance them with the deal. If you have the resources to pay for these after delievery it gives you the advantage of taking your time to figure out the best of the best for the money that you are going to spend. If these options were Factory options, they are usually cheaper than you can purchase and install them. The dealer is selling you these options at full retail, plus labor, plus the overhead, plus "dealer markup".
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Daniel Jonas
Equiping
Tim, If you have some skills you can save a lot of money. We installed the equipment on our new 290 earlier this year. We did not buy the equipment from the boat dealer. We did buy the equipment from a reputable marine equipment dealer that we met at the boat show. We also bought at the boat show to get boat show prices. We saved about $8K on our installation. We are not sure how much more we saved by avoiding the dealer mark-ups. The installation included dual chartplotters (RL70CRC, RC420), one color with color radar at nav table, other at helm (hooked together with HSB so we have radar and charts at both places, new ST60's including wind, differential GPS, autopilot (4000 ), replacement of dealer battery set-up with 3 Group 27 AGM's in two banks, Heart Link 20, and provisions for 2nd VHF with remote mic installed. We did have the dealer install the radar transmitter and wire down the mast and into the cabin. We negotiated this prior to delivery, and admittedly, they did it reluctantly. In those instances they worry about who is responsible if something does not work. We agreed to indemnify them unless we could prove the problem was caused by their work. All that really meant was that we would have to pay the marine dealer to trouble shoot and if the problem was caused by the parts the dealer installed, then the dealer would do the repair. We would be out the trouble shooting cost. Seemed fair. We spent a lot of time designing our installation between our purchase and delivery date. We worked on the boat over several weekends during the dealer prep, again with a reluctant dealer. We just made sure that we left the boat on Sunday in better condition than when we found it, and we fessed up to every scratch we caused and paid them to fix those things. Again, seemed fair. It took us several days work after delivery to complete the installation. Count on lots of frustration the first few days. Taking apart enough of the boat and finding the best paths to run wires can be very frustrating. This is a job for someone with more than basic electrical skills and lots of patience. You do need to understand how it all works together and how you might have to customize your electrical distribution. If you decide not to take this on yourself, I would compare the dealer cost to install everything you want, against the cost to have a good marine supplier do the same. I suspect the marine dealer (particularly if you get boat show prices) can beat the dealer. And, from my experience, the dealer knows precious little about the electronics anyway and will probably be paying the same or another marine dealer to install it and marking it up to you. By the way, we are very happy with our equipment and how it works. The only thing we would change is we should have bought a color chartplotter for the helm. They are much easier to see. Anyone want to trade an RC420 for an RC430? Good luck! Dan Jonas (S/V Feije)
Tim, If you have some skills you can save a lot of money. We installed the equipment on our new 290 earlier this year. We did not buy the equipment from the boat dealer. We did buy the equipment from a reputable marine equipment dealer that we met at the boat show. We also bought at the boat show to get boat show prices. We saved about $8K on our installation. We are not sure how much more we saved by avoiding the dealer mark-ups. The installation included dual chartplotters (RL70CRC, RC420), one color with color radar at nav table, other at helm (hooked together with HSB so we have radar and charts at both places, new ST60's including wind, differential GPS, autopilot (4000 ), replacement of dealer battery set-up with 3 Group 27 AGM's in two banks, Heart Link 20, and provisions for 2nd VHF with remote mic installed. We did have the dealer install the radar transmitter and wire down the mast and into the cabin. We negotiated this prior to delivery, and admittedly, they did it reluctantly. In those instances they worry about who is responsible if something does not work. We agreed to indemnify them unless we could prove the problem was caused by their work. All that really meant was that we would have to pay the marine dealer to trouble shoot and if the problem was caused by the parts the dealer installed, then the dealer would do the repair. We would be out the trouble shooting cost. Seemed fair. We spent a lot of time designing our installation between our purchase and delivery date. We worked on the boat over several weekends during the dealer prep, again with a reluctant dealer. We just made sure that we left the boat on Sunday in better condition than when we found it, and we fessed up to every scratch we caused and paid them to fix those things. Again, seemed fair. It took us several days work after delivery to complete the installation. Count on lots of frustration the first few days. Taking apart enough of the boat and finding the best paths to run wires can be very frustrating. This is a job for someone with more than basic electrical skills and lots of patience. You do need to understand how it all works together and how you might have to customize your electrical distribution. If you decide not to take this on yourself, I would compare the dealer cost to install everything you want, against the cost to have a good marine supplier do the same. I suspect the marine dealer (particularly if you get boat show prices) can beat the dealer. And, from my experience, the dealer knows precious little about the electronics anyway and will probably be paying the same or another marine dealer to install it and marking it up to you. By the way, we are very happy with our equipment and how it works. The only thing we would change is we should have bought a color chartplotter for the helm. They are much easier to see. Anyone want to trade an RC420 for an RC430? Good luck! Dan Jonas (S/V Feije)
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Peter Albright
Outfitter Pricing
Boat show price specials can be great. Make sure you contact Boatus, West Marine, JSIsailnet, etc. with a complete list of all you want to add. They will qoute special pricing on large orders.
Boat show price specials can be great. Make sure you contact Boatus, West Marine, JSIsailnet, etc. with a complete list of all you want to add. They will qoute special pricing on large orders.
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Arthur Boas
Do it yourself
When I purchased my new Hunter 40.5, it has the cruise pack stuff, which is basically all middle of the road gear. I told Hunter not to install anything, and they gave me a credit for all of the instuments, stereo, etc. for about $47.00. I then got to do all of my own research, and find the best gear for the money, and installed it all myself. Yes, I'm a handy guy, but if you take your time, follow directions, don't scrimp on tools or materials, you can do this sucessfully. The point is, you'll be living with this gear for the next 5 years: shouldn't you be thrilled with it? You can buy top rate gear for the price of low end factory supplied stuff. Defender, PYI, nd a host of others all discount heavilly. By the way, the Norstar 952 is an excellent plotter. Art Boas
When I purchased my new Hunter 40.5, it has the cruise pack stuff, which is basically all middle of the road gear. I told Hunter not to install anything, and they gave me a credit for all of the instuments, stereo, etc. for about $47.00. I then got to do all of my own research, and find the best gear for the money, and installed it all myself. Yes, I'm a handy guy, but if you take your time, follow directions, don't scrimp on tools or materials, you can do this sucessfully. The point is, you'll be living with this gear for the next 5 years: shouldn't you be thrilled with it? You can buy top rate gear for the price of low end factory supplied stuff. Defender, PYI, nd a host of others all discount heavilly. By the way, the Norstar 952 is an excellent plotter. Art Boas
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Larry W.
Dealer installed
Tim; I'd be very reluctant to have the boat dealer install ANYTHING. Have the factory install the coax cable in the mast, that's all. Dealers and factories don't really care much about installation, will do a barely adequate job and will take shortcuts to save time and money, which you will have to correct later on. I did, anyway. If you can install yourself, buy the cheapest mail order possible, but if you want it installed by a pro, you may have to pay slightly higher and buy from a local shop who will install it right. That's my opinion, anyway.
Tim; I'd be very reluctant to have the boat dealer install ANYTHING. Have the factory install the coax cable in the mast, that's all. Dealers and factories don't really care much about installation, will do a barely adequate job and will take shortcuts to save time and money, which you will have to correct later on. I did, anyway. If you can install yourself, buy the cheapest mail order possible, but if you want it installed by a pro, you may have to pay slightly higher and buy from a local shop who will install it right. That's my opinion, anyway.
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Bill Boudreau
Not my bag!
It seems like you are getting some good advice in this forum on this one. With or without low interest rates, I have never had to make the decisions you are facing. I also leave most of the pricing stuff to our dealers and sales staff. I liked the point that Steve made about the financing. My only request is that if you have never changed your oil or if your VCR flashes "12:00" year round, please do not try to install your complicated electronics package without reading the manuals. Also, like with anything else, please be prepared to spend twice as much time as you estimate for doing the installation yourself.
It seems like you are getting some good advice in this forum on this one. With or without low interest rates, I have never had to make the decisions you are facing. I also leave most of the pricing stuff to our dealers and sales staff. I liked the point that Steve made about the financing. My only request is that if you have never changed your oil or if your VCR flashes "12:00" year round, please do not try to install your complicated electronics package without reading the manuals. Also, like with anything else, please be prepared to spend twice as much time as you estimate for doing the installation yourself.
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Steve
Time VS Money
I installed the entire electronics package on my 320 last Feb-Mar. It gave me something to do on the boat while the snow melted. It saved well over 50% of the cost of factory/dealer for the same package (Raymarine). The financing allowed me to include that in the cost since I got it all at the same time as the boat. They just wanted all installed within 90 days. I got everything from West Marine. They gave me a "New Boat Owner" discount card, and it matched or beat any other prices I found on the internet. They were also local if I had any problems so it worked out well. Good luck.
I installed the entire electronics package on my 320 last Feb-Mar. It gave me something to do on the boat while the snow melted. It saved well over 50% of the cost of factory/dealer for the same package (Raymarine). The financing allowed me to include that in the cost since I got it all at the same time as the boat. They just wanted all installed within 90 days. I got everything from West Marine. They gave me a "New Boat Owner" discount card, and it matched or beat any other prices I found on the internet. They were also local if I had any problems so it worked out well. Good luck.
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