As fate would have it, I needed to repair a small leak on my recently launched boat the other day. Since I have a West Marine onsite at my marina, I walked over and bought a tube of that epoxy putty stick that comes in a tube. This is the 2-part stuff that you knead together until the color is uniform. What I like about this product is that you can use it on a wet spot, it cures quickly, and is sandable. What I don't like about this West product is the price: nearly $18. When I last bought this product many years ago, it seemed to cost less than half of that. So...I'm in Home Depot the other day and what do I see? An epoxy putty stick in a tube called "AquaMend" that sells for $2.97. I bought a tube and tried a little bit of it at home. Seems to be just about the same thing... I guess "marine grade" just means somethings cost 6 times as much....:{
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I found the same pricing ratio
white lithium grease. $15 from Marine West and $3 from the hardware store. It is like the my marina owners says, "it is for a boat isn't it"! The boat store owner told me, "marine products don't rush or catch on fire". It is all BS. They have you over a barrel and they know it.
white lithium grease. $15 from Marine West and $3 from the hardware store. It is like the my marina owners says, "it is for a boat isn't it"! The boat store owner told me, "marine products don't rush or catch on fire". It is all BS. They have you over a barrel and they know it.
On the other hand.....
On the other hand, its hard to get quality shackles, blocks, lines, etc. at your local suburban hardware megastore. And those would probably cost you more if your chandlery couldn't make a good profit on some of the other things. RK
On the other hand, its hard to get quality shackles, blocks, lines, etc. at your local suburban hardware megastore. And those would probably cost you more if your chandlery couldn't make a good profit on some of the other things. RK
Epoxy stick putty
works very well in wet situations. Warren, I've used it to fix leaky pipes which were wet and under constant pressure. However, they were not underwater but worked fine. Where exactly was the leak? Above or below the water line? How big a hole? ANYTHING one can buy at Home Depot such as tape, brushes, acetone, mineral spirits, is 30% the cost of WM. The convenience of having WM at the marina is great but at a price.
works very well in wet situations. Warren, I've used it to fix leaky pipes which were wet and under constant pressure. However, they were not underwater but worked fine. Where exactly was the leak? Above or below the water line? How big a hole? ANYTHING one can buy at Home Depot such as tape, brushes, acetone, mineral spirits, is 30% the cost of WM. The convenience of having WM at the marina is great but at a price.
Warren, as an experienced and well-published
man of the sea, I'm surprised to hear that you are surprised...you WERE, weren't you? As noted below, anything "marine" carries a premium penalty. The epoxy putty from a hardware store is the self same thing at a third of the price. Galvanized hardware is as good and much cheaper. Stainless hardware and ropes are available online at huge discounts compared to marine stores and chandlers. Time was, you could get quality for less at a chandler, but then recreational boating came along in a big way and oafs with more money than sense spent big bucks buying stuff for their boats, and the market adjusted itself accordingly. We now pay the price. WM is great when you desperately need something nautical in a hurry, but if you can wait, you will save!
man of the sea, I'm surprised to hear that you are surprised...you WERE, weren't you? As noted below, anything "marine" carries a premium penalty. The epoxy putty from a hardware store is the self same thing at a third of the price. Galvanized hardware is as good and much cheaper. Stainless hardware and ropes are available online at huge discounts compared to marine stores and chandlers. Time was, you could get quality for less at a chandler, but then recreational boating came along in a big way and oafs with more money than sense spent big bucks buying stuff for their boats, and the market adjusted itself accordingly. We now pay the price. WM is great when you desperately need something nautical in a hurry, but if you can wait, you will save!
oxalic acid
I bought a gallon of oxalic acid at the hardware store for less than half of what WM wanted for 12 ounces.
I bought a gallon of oxalic acid at the hardware store for less than half of what WM wanted for 12 ounces.
West Marine...
loves everything about boaters, especially their wallets. We used to use the same epoxy sticks in the Navy almost 20 years ago to patch pipes and stuff when you couldn't take the systems down. The U.S. Government didn't even pay $20 for that stuff. Then again, necessity and convienence have a price too.
loves everything about boaters, especially their wallets. We used to use the same epoxy sticks in the Navy almost 20 years ago to patch pipes and stuff when you couldn't take the systems down. The U.S. Government didn't even pay $20 for that stuff. Then again, necessity and convienence have a price too.
I don't believe that people establish businesses
because they see a great need but rather that they see a great opportunity. it is perhaps only a few Doctors of medicine and dentistry that establish a practice where they see a need.
because they see a great need but rather that they see a great opportunity. it is perhaps only a few Doctors of medicine and dentistry that establish a practice where they see a need.
I buy denatured alcohol solvent
at the hardware store for about 4 bucks a gallon, Canadian $. It even says stove fuel on the can. WM is over $15, but it comes in a plastic jug instead of metal, so I refill the WM jug (came with the boat) from the metal can.
at the hardware store for about 4 bucks a gallon, Canadian $. It even says stove fuel on the can. WM is over $15, but it comes in a plastic jug instead of metal, so I refill the WM jug (came with the boat) from the metal can.
not all cost comparisons may be valid
I'm close to first in line to criticize WM for price gouging but not all criticisms may be valid. Generalities aside, WM can be an expensive place to shop unless you know what you're buying but the same is also true for any brick and mortar marine store. Clearly, oxalic acid is oxalic acid regardless of where one buys it and WM charges too much compared to the big boxes but not all epoxy is the same. As an example, some cheaper resins as well as adhesives can be acidic and therefore corrosive to metals and arguably should not be used for boat parts subject to marine use. Some also create amine residue where others do not. Unless one knows the differences, it is easy to compare these cheap materials with their counterparts costing legitimately more. The point is denatured alcohol is denatured alcohol but not all stainless is equivalent nor is galvanized chain.
I'm close to first in line to criticize WM for price gouging but not all criticisms may be valid. Generalities aside, WM can be an expensive place to shop unless you know what you're buying but the same is also true for any brick and mortar marine store. Clearly, oxalic acid is oxalic acid regardless of where one buys it and WM charges too much compared to the big boxes but not all epoxy is the same. As an example, some cheaper resins as well as adhesives can be acidic and therefore corrosive to metals and arguably should not be used for boat parts subject to marine use. Some also create amine residue where others do not. Unless one knows the differences, it is easy to compare these cheap materials with their counterparts costing legitimately more. The point is denatured alcohol is denatured alcohol but not all stainless is equivalent nor is galvanized chain.
Epoxy Stick
As some would know I work for West Marine and have for ten years. I have watched this thread since it started. This morning I went to check what the cost of this product. West pays $4.48 for the epoxy stick. So do the math, It didnt add up to 600% mark-up. I know Don hit it on the head. Lots of things are truly marine grade. Others are ready available at Home Depot, Lowes, whatever. The point is that people do walk in and need the "whole project". What would people think if WM didnt have denatured alchol? You are going to pay a premium. Think of it as what you pay for items At 7-11 versus the regular grocery store, you pay more. If there was a ton of money to be made in the marine retail business, I think there would be more out there. I love the internet, but I really want to see it or have it today, with no hassle if there is a problem, that has value. Warren it surprises me that you would start and add to this thread. I kinda thought the place of a moderater is to be Switzerland? Rob Hessenius
As some would know I work for West Marine and have for ten years. I have watched this thread since it started. This morning I went to check what the cost of this product. West pays $4.48 for the epoxy stick. So do the math, It didnt add up to 600% mark-up. I know Don hit it on the head. Lots of things are truly marine grade. Others are ready available at Home Depot, Lowes, whatever. The point is that people do walk in and need the "whole project". What would people think if WM didnt have denatured alchol? You are going to pay a premium. Think of it as what you pay for items At 7-11 versus the regular grocery store, you pay more. If there was a ton of money to be made in the marine retail business, I think there would be more out there. I love the internet, but I really want to see it or have it today, with no hassle if there is a problem, that has value. Warren it surprises me that you would start and add to this thread. I kinda thought the place of a moderater is to be Switzerland? Rob Hessenius
Profit vs a Gouge...
Rob: Warren didn't say the "markup" on the WM epoxy stick was 600%, he said that was the differential between what he could buy a similar product at Home Depot for and the West product. And, the fact that West pays $4.48 for a product that it then resells for nearly $18 is still a gouge. Perhaps you should tell your empoyler to buy the same product Warren bought at Home Depot for a retail $2.97 and then resell that for $18. They could then increase their gouge. My experience in the retail world suggests that a "markup" of 50% is about right. With West (and most other boat stores,too), the rule is now "all that the traffic will bear." One of these days West (and the others) are going to figure out that they are shooting themselves in their own feet with their pricing policies as more and more of us will continue to hunt out, and find, more fairly priced products in other types of outlets.
Rob: Warren didn't say the "markup" on the WM epoxy stick was 600%, he said that was the differential between what he could buy a similar product at Home Depot for and the West product. And, the fact that West pays $4.48 for a product that it then resells for nearly $18 is still a gouge. Perhaps you should tell your empoyler to buy the same product Warren bought at Home Depot for a retail $2.97 and then resell that for $18. They could then increase their gouge. My experience in the retail world suggests that a "markup" of 50% is about right. With West (and most other boat stores,too), the rule is now "all that the traffic will bear." One of these days West (and the others) are going to figure out that they are shooting themselves in their own feet with their pricing policies as more and more of us will continue to hunt out, and find, more fairly priced products in other types of outlets.
Pete
What you don't see is the post that was deleted, after I posted. I was responding to that one. I guess I could delete mine too, but I won't. Rob Hessenius
What you don't see is the post that was deleted, after I posted. I was responding to that one. I guess I could delete mine too, but I won't. Rob Hessenius
Pete, You just haven't worked enough retail sales
in some things a 50% mark-up is the norm. In others a 50 % profit is the norm. Most retailers figure mark-up against the selling price not the wholesale price. So that way a 50 percent mark-up on an item that sells for 10 bucks means the it cost 5 bucks. There is nothing wrong with making a profit and it is the reason companies stay in business. If you can't make a profit you will go broke.
in some things a 50% mark-up is the norm. In others a 50 % profit is the norm. Most retailers figure mark-up against the selling price not the wholesale price. So that way a 50 percent mark-up on an item that sells for 10 bucks means the it cost 5 bucks. There is nothing wrong with making a profit and it is the reason companies stay in business. If you can't make a profit you will go broke.
Ross/Rob
If you guys are comfortable with the idea of West making $13.52 profit/markup/gouge -- or whatever you are comfortable calling it, so be it. What gets my attention is that a similar product mentioned by Warren can be sold by Home Depot for a retail price of 2.97 for what is Home Depot's profit/markup/gouge? A bit less, I suspect. I have no problem with companies making a profit. We all understand the need for that. But surviving in business is Darwinian. When your customers break the code, that is, realize they are being exploited, your company begins to fail. Please don't think I'm a West Marine basher. I'm not. I shop at West Marine when I need something I can't get elsewhere and they usually have it. But when I can get what I need at a better price elsewhere, West Marine loses my business.
If you guys are comfortable with the idea of West making $13.52 profit/markup/gouge -- or whatever you are comfortable calling it, so be it. What gets my attention is that a similar product mentioned by Warren can be sold by Home Depot for a retail price of 2.97 for what is Home Depot's profit/markup/gouge? A bit less, I suspect. I have no problem with companies making a profit. We all understand the need for that. But surviving in business is Darwinian. When your customers break the code, that is, realize they are being exploited, your company begins to fail. Please don't think I'm a West Marine basher. I'm not. I shop at West Marine when I need something I can't get elsewhere and they usually have it. But when I can get what I need at a better price elsewhere, West Marine loses my business.
Clarification
You guys maybe have the right argument but probably are using the wrong reasoning. As I said earlier, not all epoxies are the same, hence, one (possible) explanation for the price disparity. As an example, epoxies can be any number of formulations to conform to specific use(s) and testing requirements, e.g., Designed to meet ASTM C881, Types I, II, and V, Grade 1, Classes B and C. Comparing hardware store bought stuff vs. WM or any other type/brand without verifying it is equivalent is a frivilous argument. You might be right about WM's pricing but it might help all of us if you were to base your judgements on fact.
You guys maybe have the right argument but probably are using the wrong reasoning. As I said earlier, not all epoxies are the same, hence, one (possible) explanation for the price disparity. As an example, epoxies can be any number of formulations to conform to specific use(s) and testing requirements, e.g., Designed to meet ASTM C881, Types I, II, and V, Grade 1, Classes B and C. Comparing hardware store bought stuff vs. WM or any other type/brand without verifying it is equivalent is a frivilous argument. You might be right about WM's pricing but it might help all of us if you were to base your judgements on fact.
I buy my epoxy putty in a plumbing supply
shop and it is labeled conforms to......... The epoxy you find elsewhere may or may not be so labeled. You must understand when some one is having a 50% off sale or buy one get one free (same thing) they are still making money on the sale. Last year WM was having a year end clearance and had one table that was a "make me an offer table". On that stuff they were just trying to cut their losses.
shop and it is labeled conforms to......... The epoxy you find elsewhere may or may not be so labeled. You must understand when some one is having a 50% off sale or buy one get one free (same thing) they are still making money on the sale. Last year WM was having a year end clearance and had one table that was a "make me an offer table". On that stuff they were just trying to cut their losses.
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