Engineless sailing

[capta]

Am I too sensitive? Every time I read on a forum that those who sail without an engine are the only true sailors, my hackles rise.
Sure sailors have been crossing wet spaces long before engines, but really, who among us could compare our sailing escapades with Columbus, Magellan, Drake or Cook?
Today, if you sail without an engine, you limit yourself to conditions suitable to sailing without an engine. You don’t get to choose. You do get to sit in port until the weather is favorable, just like those great sailors mentioned above.
If I have an engine, but don’t choose to use it to get off my anchor, does that make me a better sailor than the guy that powers up on his gear, brings it aboard and then powers out beyond the anchored boats, heads into the wind and raises his sails?
The guy sailing into a marina or through a crowded anchorage, putting everybody else’s boats at risk because he wants to show off his sailing skills, shows me only his foolishness and lack of good seamanship. Can you even get insurance if you have a 30 something boat without an engine?
It doesn’t matter if it’s a 50 footer in the Caribbean or a 23 footer in the San Juans, if those white cloth things are up there propelling the boat; you’re sailing. If you’re pointing 32 degrees on a J-24 or 55 degrees on the 50 foot cruising boat; you’re sailing. With an engine or without; you’re still sailing.
But if you think you are a better sailor because you sail without an engine, well, you are just deluding yourself. You are just a sailor, like the rest of us, but with many less options.

 

[Tom J]

Good point. I don't hesitate to use the engine when I need to. Those times that I do sail on or off a mooring or anchor, I still have the engine on and the gear in neutral. It can be fun, and makes for good practice. What about that time the engine won't start, and you still have to put in somewhere?
A few years ago, we were putting into Jamestown, RI, and as we sailed up Narragansett Bay, we furled the genoa and fired up the engine, leaving the gear in neutral. "Do you want to drop the main?" my wife asked. "In a minute", I said. As we turned into the marina's channel, she again asked if I wanted to drop the main. "In a minute", I said. As the launch operator pointed to our mooring, the wife said "Let's drop the main". "In a minute", I said. After we threaded our way through the moored boats and headed up onto our mooring, I said "Okay, grab the mooring, and I'll drop the main". I never planned it that way, it just happened. Later, the launch operator said something like "Good job. Your'e the first boat this season to sail onto the mooring". I have to say, it felt good, even if I didn't deserve it. He probably didn't know the engine was running.

 

[shemandr]

...but really, who among us could compare our sailing escapades with Columbus, Magellan, Drake or Cook?

Not me!
We used to enjoy sailing on and off our anchor and became fairly adept at it. If there were other boats in proximity, we would have the engine on, out of gear.
As for the engineless snobbery issue: Yeah they can be a bit shrill. But if they can live by that discipline, and not hit other boats, I can't really fault them.

 

[RichH]

Larry and Lynn Pardey, probably the most accomplished and most recognized sailors of modern times, have circumnavigated twice - east to west then west to east, have been world cruising for over 40 years ... entirely without an engine! I dont think anyone who ever met them would say that they are haughty or foolish or are deluding themselves because they've never had .... an engine. http://www.landlpardey.com

With my racing sport boat, I rarely if ever mount an OB, I sail out of and into my slip - works for me and is less 'smelly'. Depending on the winds, I often sail off of and to my anchoring destination with my world cruising crab-crusher. To each his own, but telling or suggesting to someone else how or in what manner they should or should not sail is something akin to ... authoritarian or plain jealousy or both.

 

[Compromise]

I learned to sail without an engine. I had to compensate and think in advance. It was fun and gave me a sense of accomplishment. I don't think I ever thought myself a better sailor than anyone. I was confident of my abilities however. Nowadays, I have a boat with a nice iron sail, bow thruster, power winches, auto pilot, electric windlass and every electronic gadget I can afford. I have just as much fun sailing as I ever had and it's a whole lot easier now. I can understand how some folks will look down their noses at those who use auxiliaries, but they are just being silly if they do. When you get on the sailboat, you're already there.

 

[Stretch]

'' those who sail without an engine are the only true sailors, ''

How about a sailboat that can't sail anymore when the engine quits ?

Wild Oats XI is a maxi race boat, with a turbo diesel engine powering hydraulics for a canting keel, all winches, steerage and DSS, [a retractable foil].

http://www.sail-world.com/Canada/Sy...us-Sunfish---Ready-to-foil-the-party??/117064

 

[DougM]

Rich H, love the shot of the M20!
I think I've been on every class except an A, and owned 3 MCs.
I learned to sail on scows, all of which are engineless, and my sons were brought up on scows. We learned how to confidently handle our boats in tight areas at the docks and it helped us to develop our mooring skills in addition to everything else. It's amazing how well the skills learned on small boats translate to the big ones. Although I would not consider being without an engine on a bigger keelboat, I feel quite at ease with having to maneuver in tight areas if I absolutely must. The laws of physics definitely come into play, the big boats don't come to a stop as quickly when turning up into the wind for example.

We had an occasion last summer where a friend cooked a water pump impeller on his Ericson 36. The boat had to be sailed back to the marina and docked. He had learned over the years that he could do that if he had to. It just happens that engines misbehave at inopportune times.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

And the other part is, many marinas now a days do not allow sailing IN the marina. You must have the engine running.

I got fussed at at Lighthouse Landing up on Kentucky lake for sailing an engineless 18 foot sharpie out and back in. Made us drop sails at the entrance and paddle in to the docks from then on. And I've run into several other such places.

Also, on the ICW (Atlantic and Gulf), many bridges will not open if you have any sail up at all- even with the engine running. Torqued me off several times when I just had a jib up, and was motoring, and got told- "drop the sail or I don't open". And then again, some don't seem to care. Depends on the tender it seems, but you really can't argue.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Showing my new engine some love ...

We've sailed up and down, back and forth our small lake so often, I just don't have that urge to always sail back to the marina. I have to admit that this summer, we often found the best way to relax is to finish sailing by reaching on a SW breeze to our favorite swimming hole at the north west end of the lake, drop and stow the sails, go for a refreshing swim and give the engine some exercise for the few miles back to the marina. It helps charge the batteries and gives me a reason to run the engine with rpms up where they should be ... which doesn't happen if I drop sails just outside the marina.

 

[Ross]

Re: Showing my new engine some love ...

Early in our sailings we had gone out for an afternoon sail and headed for home with a contrary wind so I made a long tack to the north east and then to the north west and back to the north east and to the north west. and each time I found that the ebb tide had set us back where we had started. I could have anchored or continued until the tide changed but I hoisted the cast iron jib and sailed back under that.

 

[Benny17441]

To answer your question; yes, you might be too sensitive. The majority of sailors I have met that sail without an engine is because they cannot afford one. Oh there are surely true sailors out there that do it as a personal challenge but those are very, very few. Most of us are recreational sailors with land based obligations whether it be family, jobs, or businesses and we do not have the time to sit for days at the entrance to a harbor waiting for the right conditions. We today do not have the infrastructure that facilitated sail travel in the past. We now get a kick when sailing off the anchor or being able to depart or return to our dock but as soon as the wind direction is not favorable we hoist the iron sail. Practicing is good as you never know when your engine might quit. Sculling and asking for tows is best done in small pocket cruisers. Sailing engineless requires time and the lack of a schedule or particular destination. It requires a boat well stocked with potable water and food or the collecting and fishing equipment to supplement it. I'm not criticizing those who do I'm just stating why I don't participate in that discipline of sailing. Don't feel bad, you are among the majority. We all have definitions of real sailors and to me that person must be a superb boat handler with or without an engine. Seen a guy one time at a Marina in Key West back up a 41' boat into a 45' fairway in two swift, flowing moves. With the use of powerful thrusts from the engine and a spring line he backed and turned the boat in one move and shifted to forward and was headed out in his second move. He was only held back by having to retrieve the line a dock hand had released from the pylon.

 

[sailaway78]

As stated

As stated in Ross's post. There are times/places where you just can't go without the iron jenny. I have sailed up to my dock, did a 180 and tied up, without the engine. Mostly just to prove to myself that I could. But there are places where it is next to impossible, unless you have the proper wind direction. The Rigolet's coming out of Lake Ponchatrain is a good example. With a head wind, it is possible, maybe. In the days of Colombus, there were no narrow dredged channels, no bridges, no crab traps. ETC ETC ETC

 

[rufus1138]

someone already said it, but i feel like it can use re-iteration, the problem with people and aux power is those that own sailboats that cant turn the engine off....everyone has seen it.

 

[rgranger]

Did some one piss in your soup?

Hey Capta

What started this? Was there a post?

I'm with you.... an engine is prudent. And I use mine.

I did have a situation this summer where my engine would not stay running unless it was at 3/4 throttle. I was at a marina on Tangier Island in the Chesapeake Bay. I had to sail out of the slip and out of the marina. I was very nervous but I pulled it off. I think I'll start practicing more in good conditions so I can feel more confident in the future.

 

[shemandr]

And don't forget, in the age of exploration, they would use the long boats to pull a ship in and out of port -an exercise that would have a modern crew begging for the engine. And, they lost ships for their inability to sail out of danger. With all due respect to the great Captains, they would have used the iron genie if they had them.

 

[RichH]

Rich H, love the shot of the M20!
I think I've been on every class except an A, and owned 3 MCs.
I learned to sail on scows, all of which are engineless, and my sons were brought up on scows. We learned how to confidently handle our boats in tight areas at the docks and it helped us to develop our mooring skills in addition to everything else. It's amazing how well the skills learned on small boats translate to the big ones. Although I would not consider being without an engine on a bigger keelboat, I feel quite at ease with having to maneuver in tight areas if I absolutely must. The laws of physics definitely come into play, the big boats don't come to a stop as quickly when turning up into the wind for example.

We had an occasion last summer where a friend cooked a water pump impeller on his Ericson 36. The boat had to be sailed back to the marina and docked. He had learned over the years that he could do that if he had to. It just happens that engines misbehave at inopportune times.

Nothing on the water can compare to any of the ILYA Scows, well maybe a Moth 'foiler' or one of the Aussie 18's.
My wife and I campaigned our M16s & M20s all over the east coast for many years, still have an M20 (partly Inland20 - retractable sprit for the asymm.) which I really prefer over my long distance crab-crusher. The M20 is now a 'dead class' boat superseded by the I-20 (John Hayashi of Windward Boat Works - who has greatly improved performance with his 'modernizations' into the I20. www.windwardboatworks.com) The downside is that a full tricked-out I-20 is now running close to $30K, without sails ... quite steep for a 20ft., 600lb. pocket rocket.

Youre right on - 'any' scow will quickly teach YOU how to sail or you'll suffer the instant consequences. The tunnel-hulled M20 remains the 'submarine scow', as I can attest from several times making mine totally disappear into and beneath large waves! Pulled a few water skiers in my time, too. These boats have to be the most unstable craft on the planet - makes them super-FAST and super-maneuverable.

Good to know there are other ILYA scow aficionados lurking here on SBO.

For those interested in 'scows' ----- ILYA.org just follow the links for the various classes. The scows primary design is from the 1890s and such boats remained the absolute fastest sailboats until the recent advent of the Aussie-18s, sailboards, and 'foilers'. The A-Scow @ 38ft. LOA but only 1900lb., and with 'zillions' of sq. ft. of sail was the all-time record holder for speed, and is still ardently raced today. http://ilya.org/classes/a-scow.html


As regards engineless sailing .... just consider that in general aviation what newby pilots practice the most is - dead stick (engine-less) landings. If sailboaters did the same, we wouldnt be burning up so much bandwidth with so many discussions of fiberglass repair, gelcoat restoration, sailing prohibitions inside marinas, etc.

 

[jepomer]

We all have different priorities. I prefer to sail. That is how I was first taught on Rhodes 19s. My current boat is a Capri 22 with an electric outboard (Torqeedo Cruise 2.0) with a solar panel to recharge the batteries.

I always have enough energy to maneuver the mooring fields (although I can practice sailing off and on our mooring) and to get out of dangerous situations. Also, I can quickly get to the start line if the wind is not cooperating.

But I limit turning on the motor since the sailing is my choice. But there are times I need to get back quicker than the winds will get me there.

 

[LloydB]

It's hard to tell about stuff like that unless you are comparing similar sailors.

But if you think you are a better sailor because you sail with an engine, well, you are just deluding yourself. You are just a sailor, like the rest of us, but with many more options.

 

[Ross]

About four years ago in May we planned a two week sailing venture to the Wye River. The first three days were mirror smooth flat calms. so we motored. The next two day were rain and blowing stink while we sat at anchor in Swan Creek. Day six was calm and foggy so we motored for about five miles and picked up some wind to the Wye river. Day seven started out nicely and we hauled anchor and sailed about half way around Wye island as the wind freshened and we returned to our anchorage and watched the weather deteriorate to rain and gusty wind. We lay to the anchor for another day and sailed to St. Michaels and a pump out. we sailed north from there to swan creek and had good weather for an overnight. The next day was calm until about noon.