Engine won't start!

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Aug 10, 2010
7
Catalina 1987 Catalina 30 tall Rig bayside queens
My 1987 catalina 30 universal engine just won't start. i have a feeling it's electric, because there's just nothing when I push the ignition button, not a sound. The engine was working fine on THursday and then not at all on Saturday. I did notice some weird electrical shorts like the radio didn't work and then it did, my speakers didn't work and then did etc...any suggestions? My batteries are both new and fully charged...i checked. I just bet marine electricians are way expensive...but I can't imagine sorting through all those wires myself.

Thanks for any tips,
Maggie
 
Jul 28, 2010
914
Boston Whaler Montauk New Orleans
I'm afraid if you don't want to pay a mechanic, you're going to have to trace wires. If other things are shorting out, try looking behind your electrical panel - hopefully, it's as easy as a loose wire connection giving you trouble.

Keep in mind you may have two different problems - 1)not starting and 2) the "shorts." They might not even be connected.

Is there any leakage evidence near the electrical stuff, or near your starter switch? How old is the wiring and the switch? I don't know how, but maybe you can hotwire the starter wires to see if you might have a faulty switch.
 
Jul 28, 2010
914
Boston Whaler Montauk New Orleans
Maggie, just re-read your post. With the intermittent "shorts" as you call them, check the connections at your battery terminals for loose connections or corrosion.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Maggie, just re-read your post. With the intermittent "shorts" as you call them, check the connections at your battery terminals for loose connections or corrosion.
Bingo!!!! go to a plumbing supply shop and get a round wire brush for cleaning copper tubing fittings and clean your battery cable connectors.
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Maggie:

There have been problems with the wiring harness in some models of Catalinas. Stu Jackson may pipe in here and know if that was an issue with your model. I would get a battery near the engine and see if you can put a jumper cable on the starter to see if it cranks at all.
 

pogo2

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Sep 26, 2008
97
Newport 30 Mklll North Tonawanda, NY
wires

this happened to me last week with a universal M18 it was a corroded wire that broke off the selinoid bolt on the starter. Nothing would work at the ignition switch. trace out your wiring
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,008
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
There is a fuse on the wire from the start button to the starter solenoid. It's located right under the alternator in the wiring harness from the cockpit panel. Buy a new fuse holder and find the old fuse, 'cuz it probably is still in the corroded fuse holder, and install a new quick connect to slip on the starter solenoid prong, and you will love the sound of a purring engine again.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1637.0.html

While you're at it, check the engine ground wiring, the big black wire from your batteries to the engine bell housing. Take it off, clean it up and check the lug to make sure it's tight.

You might also be interested in our C34 Tech wiki on M25 to M35 engines: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

Please also read these CRITICAL UPGRADES: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html One of them is the wiring harness that Steve mentioned.
 
Aug 10, 2010
7
Catalina 1987 Catalina 30 tall Rig bayside queens
You're right about the two possibly not being "connected" it just seems likely as the issue coincided...but you never know. I did clean the battery connections and the batteries are both pretty new, 6 months old. I'm not too deterred by the instrument panel in the cabin...I rewired mast lights before, and all looks connected. I AM intimidated by the wires I saw behind the egine instrment panel in the cockpit. THey disappear under the cockpit and will be hard to trace...I may just hire a pro for that. It seems like a job for the winter, but its Summer and I need my engine!

thanks for suggestions...much appreciated.
 
Aug 10, 2010
7
Catalina 1987 Catalina 30 tall Rig bayside queens
Maggie:

There have been problems with the wiring harness in some models of Catalinas. Stu Jackson may pipe in here and know if that was an issue with your model. I would get a battery near the engine and see if you can put a jumper cable on the starter to see if it cranks at all.
Good Idea, thanks. I just have to locate the starter...
 
Aug 10, 2010
7
Catalina 1987 Catalina 30 tall Rig bayside queens
There is a fuse on the wire from the start button to the starter solenoid. It's located right under the alternator in the wiring harness from the cockpit panel. Buy a new fuse holder and find the old fuse, 'cuz it probably is still in the corroded fuse holder, and install a new quick connect to slip on the starter solenoid prong, and you will love the sound of a purring engine again.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1637.0.html

While you're at it, check the engine ground wiring, the big black wire from your batteries to the engine bell housing. Take it off, clean it up and check the lug to make sure it's tight.

You might also be interested in our C34 Tech wiki on M25 to M35 engines: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

Please also read these CRITICAL UPGRADES: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html One of them is the wiring harness that Steve mentioned.

Wow, this is great info, thanks. First time I've ever had any engine trouble in 6 years. My mast was hit by lightning 4 years ago and the engine alternator was replaced, plus a few other things like the bilge pump, but the wiring all seemed to be in tact. This might finally be the time to recheck all the fuses and connections in less obvious places.

Maggie
 

kenn

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Apr 18, 2009
1,271
CL Sandpiper 565 Toronto
My 1987 catalina 30 universal engine just won't start. i have a feeling it's electric, because there's just nothing when I push the ignition button, not a sound. The engine was working fine on THursday and then not at all on Saturday. I did notice some weird electrical shorts like the radio didn't work and then it did, my speakers didn't work and then did etc...any suggestions? My batteries are both new and fully charged...i checked.
Stu and the others have given you great advice. I just wanted to stress that the actual start circuit itself is quite simple - the start button
or key switch supplies +12 v to the start solenoid to activate the starter motor via the starter solenoid. So, at it's simplest, you need to confirm that the +12v arrives at the solenoid. You need a good meter set to measure DC voltage, or even a 12v probe or test lamp, and some test leads with alligator clips.

If you notice that the engine panel itself isn't consistently getting voltage (eg lights/alarms intermittently on, panel meters jumping around), then the problem is something to do with how power is supplied to the engine or engine panel, and is possibly related to the other electrical problems you reported.

To troubleshoot the start problem:

First check is to clip your meter leads to the thinner wire at the solenoid and engine ground, or have a friend carefully hold the leads there, and when you hit start, confirm that there was +12v on the thinner wire at the solenoid. If that voltage is there when you hit Start but no click from the solenoid and/or no starter motor action, then the problem is most likely solenoid or starter motor.

If there was no voltage measured at the solenoid when trying to start the engine, the next check is at the engine panel, at the start switch itself. You will need to consult your engine manual to determine what wires or connection points go to the start switch (or the start portion of the key switch). One side of the start switch gets +12v from the panel when the engine circuit is 'on' and ready to start, and the other side goes to the start solenoid that you just checked. Clip your leads to the solenoid side of the start switch and ground. Now, when you try to start the engine, you should see +12v on the meter. If you didn't, and you can confirm that there is 12v on the other side of the start switch, then the switch is at fault. If you do see the +12v, but you didn't in your previous test at the solenoid, then you know there's a problem with the wire somewhere between the engine panel and the engine.

You can do further tests, such as trying to apply +12v directly from the battery to the starter solenoid, or jumping across the start switch with a wire, but these can be tricky and dangerous actions if you're not comfortable around electric stuff. But at least the above tests will help you isolate the problem area.

I just bet marine electricians are way expensive...
Gosh, I hope so... I'm going for ABYC electrical certification this fall. ;)
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
In addition to checking and cleaning the battery wires on the terminals, and and where they connect to the starter solenoid and ground, check the condition of the crimps on the hot wires behind your main switch. I had some starting anomalies on my boat few years ago. Checked the main switch wires and was able to pull two of them out of their crimps easily. And they were factory crimps....
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Stu: I was not sure about the harness on the C'30. Does it also have a similar issue that the C'34 had with the harness? What other models experienced this problem?
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,008
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Wiring harnesses

Warren's right, all the factory crimps on our new regulator came apart. Check 'em all.

Steve, every single Catalina with an inboard diesel [don't know about gas ones] engine that had the old harness. C27s to C36s, up til about 1991 or 1992 when they ran out of the old harnesses at the factory. Finally.

If you read our Critical Upgrades it explains in more detail why: two MAJOR things:

--- ammeters in the cockpit - this is not limited to Catalinas - the design is flawed since only a small wire runs all the way to the cockpit and back and this is the charging wire from the alternator output; it was a 1957 electrical design in 1990 and newer boats with major electrical loads

--- the harness connectors themselves, cheap plastic, prone to failure, melting and starting your engine when you weren't there!!!

Enough said.

Many other boat manufacturers COULD (I say could) have been using the same trash connectors. I just don't know about any others.

The links get you to wiring diagrams and the fixes, and many, many horror stories from our owners, some who didn't listen...

Many used the ammeter in the cockpit.
 
Jan 22, 2008
6
Catalina 30 Oriental - Pecan Grove Marina NC
Harness Upgrade

This may help. Seaward has an upgrade to the harness that connects to your engine control panel. I replaced mine about 10 years ago on my '91 C30 and it eliminated a lot of problems. As I recall, it also provided an improved charging circuit from the alternator. Check their upgrade info here... http://www.seawardproducts.com/upgdinfo.pdf Good luck.:)
 
Dec 29, 2008
806
Treworgy 65' LOA Custom Steel Pilothouse Staysail Ketch St. Croix, Virgin Islands
I'd put my money on a grounding problem. Too many intermittent problems If not the battery terminals, maybe the primary ground is loose or corroded? Guess it could be left over from that lightning strike a few years ago...
 

DannyS

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May 27, 2004
933
Beneteau 393 Bayfield, Wi
I don't mean to hijack this thread but it's somewhat related. I have a Universal M25 engine and I'm reading about the engine harness. Was that harness from Catalina or Universal? My boat is an O'day 35 and I'm wondering if I have that harness.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,008
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I don't mean to hijack this thread but it's somewhat related. I have a Universal M25 engine and I'm reading about the engine harness. Was that harness from Catalina or Universal? My boat is an O'day 35 and I'm wondering if I have that harness.
Danny, my #14 above said that many manufacturers used those harnesses. You should read my links from earlier in this topic. Open your engine compartment and look at the connections from the engine wires to the cockpit panel. Open your panel and look behind it. Only YOU can do this on your boat. The Critical Upgrades post, if you click on a few links, will get you to pictures of the horrendous connectors. If you have 'em, diss 'em. And if you still have an ammeter, then it tells ya somethin'. Can't be any clearer than we've been...'cuz the trick, I've found, is to read the links that are provided for just that reason, which avoids us repeating ourselves, although I have been known to do that a lot -- guys here'll tell ya that about me.:naughty:
 

DannyS

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May 27, 2004
933
Beneteau 393 Bayfield, Wi
Yup, Stu, I missed that in #14. Probably because I was trying to decipher and absorb all the info in the links. Good info! Thanks for the work you've done. The reason I asked the question is that the info seemed quite brand specific to the Catalinas. I do have the ammeter and I've been having starting issues, however, mine are that when the key is turned on and the glowplug button is pressed (20 to 30 seconds) I hear the fuel pump clicking like it's supposed to, but sometimes nothing happens when I hit the starter button. I've cleaned some connections behind the panel, but a more thorough inspection is needed. Project for the weekend!
Any other insights are appreciated.
 
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