Electronics - they're all the same Chinese toys (?)

[Skipper]

It seems that all the chartplotters, instruments, etc are starting to look and feel like they were all made by the same factory in China. I know that Lowrance, BG, Navico, and Simrad are all the same company, but now Garmin is starting to look like Raymarine (IE: cheap).

Are they all now made in the same factory in China?

My real question is: Is there a reputable electronics supplier with gear not made in China? I would prefer Japanese, US or European.

 

[Jackdaw]

It seems that all the chartplotters, instruments, etc are starting to look and feel like they were all made by the same factory in China. I know that Lowrance, BG, Navico, and Simrad are all the same company, but now Garmin is starting to look like Raymarine (IE: cheap).

Are they all now made in the same factory in China?

My real question is: Is there a reputable electronics supplier with gear not made in China? I would prefer Japanese, US or European.

NKE is french. And still make in the EU.

http://www.nke-marine-electronics.com/home/

But here is the very simple reality. Chinese-made gear is made EXACTLY as well as it is spec'ed. Think of the iPhone5. Made in China, and perhaps of one the best products you will ever see. It is because Apple designed and spec'ed it to a very high level.

The same holds true for electronics. Any brand in question is getting exactly what that asked and paid for in their spec. If you have an issue, don't blame the Chinese, blame the manufacture.

 

[Skipper]

NKE is french. And still make in the EU.

http://www.nke-marine-electronics.com/home/

But here is the very simple reality. Chinese-made gear is made EXACTLY as well as it is spec'ed. Think of the iPhone5. Made in China, and perhaps of one the best products you will ever see. It is because Apple designed and spec'ed it to a very high level.

The same holds true for electronics. Any brand in question is getting exactly what that asked and paid for in their spec. If you have an issue, don't blame the Chinese, blame the manufacture.

I'm not blaming. I just don't want to trade our treasure for junk (if possible) any longer. China will own us soon. I am willing to pay more for quality and longevity. I remember my Simrad, Signet, DataMarine, and even RayMarine equipment from the past being outstanding, of extraordinarily robust build, and intended for heavy use; now I have a Ray Marine pilot, and it has the physical quality of a child's toy. Maybe the inferior materials and workmanship are what these mfg have specified, and that would fit their specifying that it be made in China. I'd like to avoid this quality in future purchases.

 

[Stu Jackson]

1. China will own us soon.

2. now I have a Ray Marine pilot, and it has the physical quality of a child's toy. Maybe the inferior materials and workmanship are what these mfg have specified, and that would fit their specifying that it be made in China. I'd like to avoid this quality in future purchases.

1. Not sure how this is a boating related issue, and may not be true regardless.

2. Wheel pilots, except the robust CPT, are TOYS. My N scale model railroad locomotives have bigger motors! You don't need a robust circuit board for a GPS. What you really NEED is an intuitive GUI so you don't need the manual everytime you use it! If you want a robust autopilot, get a CPT or a belowdeck unit. The wheelpilots made today are made for boats much smaller than those in which many skippers have installed them.

 

[Chief RA]

Skipper: I think Jackdaw is right. I have not noticed a decline in quality, and technology is continuing at a fast pace. I have been in electronics my entire adult life and I suspect that you may be making our old equipment become better than it really was in your mind set! Ha There was some good stuff and some sorry stuff! The biggest problem to me is todays complex operational procedures! Chief

 

[Chief RA]

Yes Stu, you were right with me as I was writing that! I am an ol' engineer, not an electronic equipment operator! Chief

 

[Apex]

design for replacement, things aren't made to "last" that is counter to their business model.

 

[Joe]

design for replacement, things aren't made to "last" that is counter to their business model.

Exactly, these products are designed to have a useful life, then replaced by a supposedly better product....... how many of you actually use a gps 12? even though it was in a heavy case (as in, doesn't float) and MAY still operate, newer technology has made them obsolete. How many of you still own a CRT television?... and WHY?

Look, the reason China is making all this stuff is because it's cheaper........ so you the American consumer can buy more stuff....

 

[justsomeguy]

My technophobic wife still prefers Win98 SE...but I agree with you, Joe and Apex, regarding consumerism/planned obsolescence.

To Skipper, start up a business. Good luck!

 

[Stu Jackson]

You mean I still shouldn't be using my Windows 3.0?!?

 

[Captn TJ]

You mean I still shouldn't be using my Windows 3.0?!?

Where's my Comodore 64 when I need it!

 

[woodster]

Where's my Comodore 64 when I need it!

you guys think that stuff is old you should try doing this site in DOS...

regards

woody

 

[finding41]

Stu I'd like to see how you have your train set up in the boat.
Seriously. The Chinese manufactures are making some great stuff. And some junk. Usually the junk is designed to be just that. Junk. The planed obsolescence mentioned above.
If anyone wants to start a electronics business that makes quality long lasting items.... The company's that make the junk can make the best stuff too! Just depends what is ordered....
For fun put out a call for tenders (RFP) here; alibaba.com
If it can't be made by any of these guys then it can't be made!

Edit: Do any of these units look familiar? http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search...tId=&SearchText=boat+gps+charting+electronics

 

[Chris Patterson]

Yep, I agree junk across the board. My spayedmarine wheel pilot is less than a year old, is covered religiously over the helm when not used, and the 'rubber' boot that covers the cable connection at the wheel motor has already rotted to pieces. At that moment, over a 50 cent piece of rubber junk that died at birth made the decision for me that I'll never buy another piece of this inferior chinese junk from these hustlers ever again. And will so advise my customers.
And neighbors.
Loudly.
Frequently.

I have a sticker I made to go on the side of my work truck, "Ask me about my zero tolerance policy"
This includes a multitude of things, cheap junk being one of them. I hope ray spends that 1500 bucks well, it'll be the last..

(Oh yeah, no I did not even bother contacting the company. There is absolutely nothing that they could say or do that would change this. They had their chance and lost. ZERO tolerance baby).

Wonder how Hynautics is doing? ..

One more thing. Money not really being one of my issues, I am one of the people that will spend about any amount for quality equipment. And my other has never set foot in a walmart parking lot. They might win boys and girls, but it won't be account of me trying to save a nickel buying plastic shoes or whatever..

And yeah, I'm still gritting my teeth over these redwing/carhartts. Who woulda thought. Yeah, they got me too..

 

[4arch]

My problem has been more with built in obsolescence than with quality. I have a 2005 vintage chartplotter and a 2008 vintage handheld - both from a major marine electronics manufacturer. They became ineligible for further chart updates within less than five years of purchase. To this day they still perform as well as the day they were new, but without being able to update, their functions become severely limited. This has made me very reluctant to purchase any other marine charting devices despite being tempted to get a unit capable of radar overlay. The pricing is certainly becoming more and more attractive almost by the day. Still, I'd rather stick with PC/tablet navigation and my old standalone radar. Yes, the PC's and tablets go obsolete too - but at least they have other uses on the way.

 

[rufus1138]

gotta put up a +1 for the cpt autopilot, its on my wishlist for the 33, currently running a raymarine st4000+ that works fine for the moment (just had a fresh belt) but we shall see, i love the idea of the cpt and recently did a delivery on a friends boat that has just installed a below deck closed loop hydraulic auto pilot and it has been a nightmare for him (everything wasnt the manufacturers fault, service technicians caused enough problems on their own) that has included replacing his quadrant and hydro pump so far, as for me i hated listening to the damn thing mewling away in moderate seas (made worse by him refusing to operate the boat the way it should be done) as for me ill stick with the quiet electric wheel pilot and my trusty old 33.

 

[Captn TJ]

Yep, I agree junk across the board. My spayedmarine wheel pilot is less than a year old, is covered religiously over the helm when not used, and the 'rubber' boot that covers the cable connection at the wheel motor has already rotted to pieces. At that moment, over a 50 cent piece of rubber junk that died at birth made the decision for me that I'll never buy another piece of this inferior chinese junk from these hustlers ever again. And will so advise my customers. And neighbors. Loudly. Frequently. I have a sticker I made to go on the side of my work truck, "Ask me about my zero tolerance policy" This includes a multitude of things, cheap junk being one of them. I hope ray spends that 1500 bucks well, it'll be the last.. (Oh yeah, no I did not even bother contacting the company. There is absolutely nothing that they could say or do that would change this. They had their chance and lost. ZERO tolerance baby). Wonder how Hynautics is doing? .. One more thing. Money not really being one of my issues, I am one of the people that will spend about any amount for quality equipment. And my other has never set foot in a walmart parking lot. They might win boys and girls, but it won't be account of me trying to save a nickel buying plastic shoes or whatever.. And yeah, I'm still gritting my teeth over these redwing/carhartts. Who woulda thought. Yeah, they got me too..

You'll have a tough time with more than electronics! Your American vehicle has parts mostly made outside the US - mostly China and Eastern Europe. Clothing? Hasn't been made here in decades

 

[4arch]

A properly installed and maintained below deck autopilot should be virtually silent.

 

[Skipper]

1. Not sure how this is a boating related issue, and may not be true regardless.

2. Wheel pilots, except the robust CPT, are TOYS. My N scale model railroad locomotives have bigger motors! You don't need a robust circuit board for a GPS. What you really NEED is an intuitive GUI so you don't need the manual everytime you use it! If you want a robust autopilot, get a CPT or a belowdeck unit. The wheelpilots made today are made for boats much smaller than those in which many skippers have installed them.

1. It is related to boating, but in a profoundly patriotic and national security way(s), none of which I intended to bring forward, so my error. Different topic\board.

2. My question was not about my existing pilot, which I never said was a wheel pilot. Also, I was referring more to the control head. I agree with the intuitive GUI requirement. Also simple - not that I couldn't figure out complexities, but when you're managing the AP many times it's in a big hurry. The RM pilot accomplishes this.

 

[Skipper]

design for replacement, things aren't made to "last" that is counter to their business model.

Yes, this may be why DataMarine is no longer a big player. My boat is a 1984. The DataMarine instruments are 1984. They still run perfectly. Also, their functionality is still as relevant as when they were built.