Electrolysis-Let Me Share My Situation

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Dec 9, 2005
164
Kirie Elite 37 Pascagoula, Mississippi
Electrolysis is a problem that leaves electrically challenged people like me frustrated and bewildered. Since buying my Kirie Elite 37 a little over four years ago, I've battled electrolysis from the beginning, adding to my disgust and confusion over this elusive problem. But during a recent haulout, a knowledgable local sailing guru and nautical design genius, Lee Creekmore, offered advice that led to the exposure of my boat's mysterious culprit. Lee suggested I purchase an inexpensive cable meter and check the shorepower cable when all shipboard 110 volt devices are powered on (and the boat is in the water). According to Lee, if the meter reads zero then the electrical ground is working at its best and no electrolysis will be occurring. However, if the meter has any numerical readings whatsoever, then electrolysis exists; begin turning things off/on until the ugly culprit is exposed. Well, that's exactly what I did and, wouldn't you know it, it turned out to be the battery charger. While many of you electrical experts would have already said, "Check the battery charger dummy!", this simple and inexpensive method aided in the identification of the faulty equipment. For all those electrically challenged sailors like me, this seems to be the simpliest way to find your problem. I'm compelled to pass this knowledge along after years of dockside experts saying, "Hey dummy, turn things off and on until you find it!" Well, how can you find it without knowing the trick of using a clamp meter? Now go forth with your clamp meters and solve your own electrolysis problems. I did! Dick CD EXPRESS PS: Maybe I'll spend my government stimulus check on a new charger.....hummmmm....oh admiral?
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Sounds like you have isolated the problem.

now to determine if it is a wiring problem or a problem with the devise. Will an ioslation transformer solve the problem? You must determine why the problem exists. Throwing money at it is an expensive trouble shooting technique.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,818
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Zinic Problems

My dock neighbor was telling me last year that his zinic's were half gone last time he looked under the boat when diving, and so I see he has some kind of line hanging off the boat with a clamp on zinic in the water. I also noticed my zinic half gone when hauled this past fall. Any advice with checking other things besides what Dick mentioned, last year was my first year at this marina with new boat and dock neighbor said it also happened the year before. I'll be putting new prop this year and don't want to screw it up, the new prop has it's own zinic and I will be adding zinic to my shaft. Nick
 
Jun 7, 2004
944
Birch Bay Washington
No offense to you but bad advice

You will never figure out an electrolysis problem with a clamp meter. From what you have said, it sounds to me like you have gotten some bad advice. This is a very complicated issue that cannot be addressed clearly or concisely from long distance. You need to get a reference electrode to thoroughly diagnose the problem. Your marina may have one or you can ask a surveyor but you need to find one who really knows what he is doing. I have not found many who really understand how to troubleshoot the issue. Most electrolysis problems are due to the boat next to yours or marina wiring problems anyway. No offense to you, there are books on the subject.
 
Nov 12, 2006
256
Catalina 36 Bainbridge Island
Provide Details

Exactly WHAT did you do, with WHAT kind of meter? At what points were you measuring WHAT, Amps, Volts, Ohms????
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,336
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
corrosion 101

There are three types of corrosion underwater metals are subjected to---Electrolytic, Galvanic, and Stray current. Bonding underwater metals (and installing a zinc) will cure/prevent the first two types of corrosion but will cause or speed up the last. It is best to find out what type of corrosion your boat is experiencing before deciding on the cure and if you are not experiencing a problem, leave well enough alone. Galvanic & Electrolytic (Stray Current) corrosion are two similar, yet different types of corrosion. Galvanic corrosion results when two dissimilar metals, of sufficiently different potentials (about 0.1 V on the galvanic series) (a galvanic couple can also occur within regions of a single alloy), are electrically connected (bonded; deliberately or not), and immersed in a common electrolyte (water). The same electro-chemical reaction creates the current flow in a storage battery. Stray Current (or Electrolytic) corrosion results when an applied current flows through immersed conductive materials, other than an intended electrical circuit. Stray currents can come from an outside source either internal or external to your boat. Internal sources involve a short in your boat’s wiring system, such as a poorly insulated wire in the bilge, an electrical accessory that may be improperly wired, or a wire with a weak or broken insulation that is intermittently wet. External sources are most often related to shore power connections, or other boats on the dock . To generate electrolytic corrosion, the stray current must flow onto the metal at one location and then flow off the metal at another location. When an applied current passes in and out of a metal part, an electrolytic cell is set up, resulting in a localized anodic site, where the positive current exits the metal part. This causes the local oxidation (corrosion reaction) of the metal piece, which may lead to a very rapid metal loss, which is limited only by the amount of current available. TESTING: An ohm meter is a poor way to check bonding connections. I use a 12 volt lamp and make a probe using a screwdriver. Hook a long enough wire to the positive terminal of the starting battery and then poke the screwdriver into each of the through hull fittings and make sure the lamp lights. An ohm meter is only testing the circuit at micro-amps. The following applies mainly to boats left in the water. Trailered boats rarely spend enough time in the water for electrolysis to be a problem. BONDING STRAPS Although copper straps look impressive they are totally unnecessary. At most, the wire only carries a few milliamps and there is no concern for voltage drop so the copper only needs to be heavy enough to resist deterioration from oxidation. A 10 gauge copper wire is more than adequate. I use non stranded 10 gauge bare copper wire for my installations, being careful to secure it so it is not subject to flexing from boat motion. Non stranded wire has much less surface area and avoids the cavities between the strands where moisture and corrosion/oxidation can progress. THEORY Electrolysis only happens when two dissimilar metals are immersed in an electrolyte and connected together. The dissimilar metals have different electrolysis voltages so if you connect them together current flows through the connecting wire one direction and through the water the other. As the current leaves one metal to travel to the other, it causes metal to come off one surface and be deposited on the other like battery plates so the higher voltage metal suffers electrolysis. Electrolysis can also occur when an adjacent structure or boat is injecting DC current into the water and that current goes in one end of your boat and out the other on its way to the destination. This can cause electrolysis even though your boat is not an offender. PROTECTION There are basically 2 ways to reduce electrolysis. The PREFERABLE one is to DISCONNECT the electrical circuit. If this can't be done, the second method is to provide a sacrificial anode (Zinc) so it deteriorates rather than your expensive equipment. a) DISCONNECTING Electrolysis cannot occur on an isolated piece of metal in salt water. It is all at the same voltage but if it is isolated no current can flow so there is no electrolysis. When it is connected to another piece of metal, ESPECIALLY if the other piece is a different metal, you just created a shorted battery and electrolysis will start. By following the wrong advise and bonding everything in the boat you are creating batteries where it is unnecessary and making electrolysis problems worse. Only bond underwater items that are showing symptoms of electrolysis. If it ain't broke, DON'T fix it. Once you bond it unnecessarily you have CREATED the circuit rather than DISCONNECTING it. You are now stuck with providing Zincs since you have removed the first line of protection. Although some through hulls appear to be isolated due to sitting in fiberglass and using non-metallic tubing, they quite often are not and WILL need bonding. For example the raw water cooling inlet for an inboard engine is in fact connected to the engine block by the salt water in the tubing and may need bonding so the current flows though copper rather than the water and in/out of the through hull. b) SACRIFICIAL ZINC There are situations where different metals cannot be disconnected and you are stuck with putting zincs on them to provid a target for the electrolysis. Zincs have a higher electrolytic voltage than marine metals so it is the first to deteriorate. Keep in mind that the zinc will CREATE electrolysis (favorable electrolysis since the zinc is being eaten up). Putting zincs where they were not needed will still cause the zincs to erode away since they create the battery situation where none may have existed. The range of protection a zinc can supply to other metals bonded to it is limited by the conductivity of the water. In salt water you get coverage for a radius of about 4 to 6 feet. A zinc on the stern of a 14 ft boat where everything is bonded is only protecting half the boat. This range gets even less in fresh water and may reduce to only inches. Often magnesium is substituted for zinc in fresh water to provide an even higher voltage to push through the fresh water. Generally, electrolysis problems are created by the shore power connection. You could theoretically disconnect the ground connection in the shore power and avoid electrolysis (and in some cases this is a solution) but ABYC regulations require the AC ground be connected to the DC ground so an electrical fault on the boat won't electrocute swimmers in the vicinity. When you connect your underwater metal to the shore power ground you have "bonded" with every other boat on the docks who have the same connection. Now electrolysis currents are free to flow anywhere in the marina and it only takes one boat with a 12 volt DC leakage to eat up every boat within a wide radius even though the offender has zero electrolysis evidence. Your protection is a Galvanic Isolator in the ground connection of the shore power lead.. Any Galvanic Isolator that meets AYBC specifications will do - they are not rocket science and extremely reliable. On most boats you cannot isolate the DC ground from the underwater metal because the starter motor is bolted to the engine block which in turn connects to the propeller shaft and the water. So without the ground, an internal failure of the battery charger could put 120 or 230 volts AC on your DC ground and into the water.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Money answerith all things

i agree with Ross. I also agree with your Guru. If there is any current in the ground circuit of the AC supply line (inverters and gensets isolated of course, check them independently by same method BTW) then there is a current between the boat ground (keel, propshaft,....) and something else in the marina or ashore. now if you had a sensiive multi meter and some electrical theory in hand you might be able to diagnose the problem. There are other sources of electrical rusting (is there another kind?) that cannot be found by this method. but this method will identify some of them and surly point the finger at items that need to be checked out further but not necessarily replaced. I find it suspecious that it was your battery charger. ALL marine grade chargers have the AC ground and DC negative circuits disconnected for corrosion reasons. to test disconnect the charger from all AC and DC circuits and measure the resistance between the negative DC terminal and the AC ground terminal. it should read infinate ohms. if it does then with the battery charger disconnected connect the AC ground wire on the boat and DC negative battery charger wire. Remeasure your AC ground current. now if the charger shows infinate ohms but connecting the wires duplicates the problem the problem is surly not the charger but some other ground circuit. the battery charger is a unique item as it operates in both circuits and you can get some pretty odd things. really odd things if you have what are called ground loops, ie more than one path for each load to ground. Radios are big grimlens also as the RF ground and chassis ground and DC negative are all intended to be the same thing. they never are but that is life. Is your battery charger a marine grade one?? i can show you how to neuter yours if that is of interest.
 

Bob R.

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Jun 5, 2004
161
Marlow-Hunter 40 Pasadena, MD
Timely Topic

I just spent most of the day Saturday replacing the float switch for my bilge pump. By doing so I think I solved two problems. When the boat was pulled last fall for winter storage I noticed that both zincs on the prop shaft looked and crumbled like porous sandstone. They were brand new last May. It looked like I had a stray current problem that I was going to have to find. The boat went back into the water last week and when I checked the bilge on Saturday it was full. I turned on the bilge pump with the manual override swich and pumped it down. I poured a bucket of water in to test the automatic level start and nothing happened. I took the pump and the separately wired float swich out and found that all of the wiring connections were made with marine wire connectors that had pre-installed heat shrink tubing to make the connections water tight...except whoever made the connection never shrunk the tubing and all the connection were severely corroded. One of the leads to the level float had shorted. I bought a new level float and re-made all the wiring connections with new heat shink tubing. I hope I solved both the bilge pump auto-start and the stray current problems. CHECK YOUR BILGE PUMP WIRING! I think mine was original equipment that was improperly installed. Bob R. Unfurled 2002 H356
 
Dec 9, 2005
164
Kirie Elite 37 Pascagoula, Mississippi
One thing I failed to mention.....

My boat's battery charger also has an inverter built in. Unfortunately, the inverter stopped working at about the time the electrolysis began. Uhummmmm..maybe it is the bad inverter causing the problem.... Thanks for all the advice...
 
H

Hubert

keel bolt torque

for three years I have been getting a small seepage of sea water into the bilge of my O'Day 272LE through the keel bolts -- enough to fill the bilge in about two weeks. My idea is to tighten the bolts once I launch again for the summer season. I will do this once I have been in the water for a week to allow the hull to assume its proper shape. DOES ANYONE KNOW THE FOOT-POUNDS TO APPLY FOR AN O'DAY 27 ??
 
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