I just bought a 1990 Hunter 30, I noticed that all the electric outlets are standard ( no GFCI's). Is there a ground fault system?
Electrical question
- Thread starter fuznomo
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may not be, but you can add GFCIs fairly simply. You need to identify the "first" outlet on each side and replace that outlet with a GFCI. This will protect the downstream outlets.
One from a big box store is fine, no need to buy a "marine" unit. Look for a slim/thin design so that it will fit in the existing box, else add an extension.
Be safe, and for sure if you are not comfortable, get an electrician to do it for you.
One from a big box store is fine, no need to buy a "marine" unit. Look for a slim/thin design so that it will fit in the existing box, else add an extension.
Be safe, and for sure if you are not comfortable, get an electrician to do it for you.
My surveyor said...
A couple of years ago, as a result of my last survey, I was told that I needed to install GFCIs. I found this strange since I have one at the start of the circuit and had read about the idea of everything downstream being protected. His report implied that every outlet needed the GFCI. Since they're not that expensive and on my H33 I only have three AC outlets, I changed out the "unprotected" two outlets. I'm pretty sure they make a unit that gets put into the main circuit right at the shore power inlet, but as I recall they're somewhat pricey, especially if you only have a couple outlets like I do. Bottom line though, when you're talking about AC power, better safe than sorry!
A couple of years ago, as a result of my last survey, I was told that I needed to install GFCIs. I found this strange since I have one at the start of the circuit and had read about the idea of everything downstream being protected. His report implied that every outlet needed the GFCI. Since they're not that expensive and on my H33 I only have three AC outlets, I changed out the "unprotected" two outlets. I'm pretty sure they make a unit that gets put into the main circuit right at the shore power inlet, but as I recall they're somewhat pricey, especially if you only have a couple outlets like I do. Bottom line though, when you're talking about AC power, better safe than sorry!
My Blue Sea 115vac distribution panel has a ground-fault indicator light and an ample breaker for 15-amp service. I have no GFCI's; and all the outlets on my boat are standard (cheap) house-grade (from the $1.00 bin at Lowe's). I've been plugged in at the dock for 3-4 years with no hassles.
Yes, and to add to that the ABYC requirements for GFCI outlet placement is; head, galley, engine spaces or weather deck locations. Just be sure that when buying GFCI's they meet UL 943... This does not require them to be a "marine" GFCI but does mean you're not buying a bottom of the barrel cheap GFCI either and you;re buying a "class A" GFCI.. Look for a UL 943 rating on a GFCI and you'll be good. I also use UL 943 GFCI's at home and they outlast the cheapies by about 10:1. Hubbel & Pass & Seymour make ones I know to hold up in the marine environment but Leviton & others make them also. Often tough to find a UL 943/Class A GFCI at other than an electrical supply house but they can be found..
CapeJT.. I would challenge the surveyor to provide proof that GFI's are REQUIRED to be retrofit to your boat.. If the boat is not used commercially, retrofit to meet current standards is usually not required. I am not saying that it is not a good thing to do, I am balking at someone with some perceived authority telling you something that is not true. True, the current ABYC stds call for this enhancement.. but your boat met standards when it was built ..
I second Kloudie on that as well. While its certainly a good idea, if they can force you to upgrade one system, they may think they have the authority to make you upgrade everything. I would challenge it, make him show you the statute/ruling etc..
Surveyors survey to the accepted ABYC safety standards regardless of when a boat was built. They "note" certain items they know can be dangerous and or insurance companies now require for insurance. Electrical, LPG and fuel systems are three of the big ticket safety items that are often "noted". You're unlikely to get flagged on a wire color code issue for example but are likely to get flagged for something like GFCI's, AC/DC safety ground tie, proper breakers etc.. Just because a boat was built in the 60's and 70's, and was insurable then, it does not mean it is or should be today. Insurance companies have the data that shows where and why they pay out and this has and is influencing what and how they are willing to underwrite.
I have a customer who ignored water intrusion into his decks, went through an insurance survey, and now can't get insurance until the boat is fixed, about 10k. He's lost an entire season of sailing because the underwriter refuses to issue the policy based on the vessels current condition.. Insurance companies are getting VERY strict and surveyors are not going to stick their neck on the line over fuel, LPG or electrical systems not meeting some sort of minimum safety standard without at least "noting" it in the survey. Not all "noted" items will be required to be fixed by the insurer but many electrical, fuel or LPG items will need to be addressed. We live in a litigious society and surveyors, like anyone else, cover their butts as do insurance companies in an attempt to minimize claims.
I get calls from customers all the time who's boats are now un-insurable until some noted items are addressed. Just installed two house bank fuses over this last week as well as a 12V propane shut off.. Even on our boat, which was in very good shape, I had about 15 items that had to be fixed before they would issue the policy.
The only "authority" here is the insurance company you need to underwrite your policy. Surveyors do get hauled into court if they let something slide that caused a loss and insurance companies have been known to go after surveyors for not noting potential safety issues. It's a real catch 22, but is today's reality. The changes in the last 12 months alone, in what insurance companies are demanding, is pretty crazy.
Maine, I agree 100% with what you've said.. My point is that I have dealt with many people over the years who mistook/misapplied the words Shall and Should in the codes.. If an inspector tells me I must do something, my alert flags go up because I have found many times that this was based on their own desire to get something changed, whether or not it was necessary (I am not saying good or bad, but necessary to be changed).. I usually asked to see the document that demanded that I do a retrofit.. and usually it could not be produced..In this case, I don't doubt that GFI's should be on the AC system.. but I want the guy to say.. that the insurance company he represents demands this even though it is not a legal mandate..
Hi
Open up the main panel and look at the main circuit breaker If it has three poles then you do have a ground fault protection built in I have a 1989 Hunter Vision and this is how the ground fault is done
Open up the main panel and look at the main circuit breaker If it has three poles then you do have a ground fault protection built in I have a 1989 Hunter Vision and this is how the ground fault is done
That is or should be a double pole breaker with "ground" post... You should also have a reverse polarity indicator. Your main breaker is not the same as a GFCI and does not get around the need for them in protecting galley, head, engine spaces or weather deck locations.. If you had a main breaker with residual current detection it would be an ELCI, which trips at 30mA not the 5mA of a GFCI.....
Where to find Hunter Main Circuit Breaker?
My 1985 Hunter 31 needs a new 30amp AC breaker. It's an Airpax double unit with a single switch, 3 poles on the switch side and 2 on the other. No local suppliers seem to be able to find one for me and can't figure out what the 3rd middle pole is for. Has any one out there had any luck finding a similar unit?
If the pedestal that your boat is plugged in to has GFI outlets, then wouldn't the entire boat be covered while it was plugged in ?
The 20A 120V, 30A 120V or 50A 120/250V "twist-loc" receptacle used for shore power to your boat are NOT GFCI protected. Only the 120V convience receptacles in the pedestal are either GFCI receptacles or fed from a GFCI breaker as required by code.
The ABYC required receptacles need to GFCI protected in your boat, in described locations such as galley and head.
See NFPA 303
To try to provide GFCI protection to all the boat from a shore power GFCI breaker would be problematic,and could cause nuisense tripping.
The ABYC required receptacles need to GFCI protected in your boat, in described locations such as galley and head.
See NFPA 303
To try to provide GFCI protection to all the boat from a shore power GFCI breaker would be problematic,and could cause nuisense tripping.
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