Electrical Panel

[FourPoints]

I am replacing my 21 year old OEM 5 circuit electrical panel and box enclosure with something a little more modern and able to handle the additional circuits I already have or will soon have (GPS, FM Radio, Spreader Lights, Bilge Pump, Cabin Fans, Inverter), and include a way to turn off the 12 volt socket separate from the instruments...

I have found 3 options that will fit in the space requirements I have. I included a picture of a mock layout using option 2 on the new electrical box that I had made (the original one is basically identical, but only 8 inches wide, this one is just over 16 inches wide, once installed you won't know it isn't OEM).

All 3 options will have the separate bilge switch and 12v socket installed as pictured in the lower right.

I am looking for feedback primarily on the choice of panel, but also on the brands themselves, and anything that I may have overlooked.

Option 1 $360 (Defender spring sale price ~$324)

Blue Sea A-Series 13 position Circuit Breaker Panel with Voltmeter and Ammeter
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|319684|1506446&id=838196&cartId=2225517

Pros:
-Includes Ammeter (although I feel I do not need)

Cons:
-Most expensive option

Neutral:
-Most circuits (I won't use more than 10 anyway)
​

Option 2 $320 (Defender spring sale price ~$288)

Blue Sea 6 Position Fused DC Panel with separate Voltmeter
Panel:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|319684|1506449&id=1355726
Voltmeter:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|299263|319684|1506455&id=52494

Pros:
-Availability of Blue Sea suppliers
-Price (and no shipping if I pick up at Defender spring sale)

Cons:
-Addition of separate voltmeter requires the more space than other options

Neutral:
-Waterproof Switches (it's in the cabin)
-Fused (what I have already is fused so I already carry spare fuses)
​

Option 3 $320 (unknown if Defender spring sale will apply)

BEP Marine 12 Way Circuit Breaker Panel with Voltmeter
http://www.bepmarine.com/home-mainmenu-8/product-493/902a-12v-12-way-circuit-breaker-panel

Pros:
-Same price as option 2 if sale applies, but smaller footprint
-Breakers not Fuses

Cons:
-Have to special order as it is not stocked anywhere I can find

​

 

[Maine Sail]

Personally I would stay away from BEP. Blue Seas makes bomb proof stuff at an excellent value.

You can also get the 13 circuit panel in a digital meter version #8403 (white switches) or 3403 (black switches). Google it and you'll find a wide discrepancy of selling prices. Don't waste your money on anything analog or digital in a volt meter unless it is a true battery monitor. The Victron BMV-600 can be bought for $158.10 from Jamestown Distributors and is a REAL battery monitor giving a LOT more functionality than just a volt meter.

http://bluesea.com/category/7/28/products/8403

 

[Tim R.]

Check out Bass Products also. I have one of their panels in my boat and they offer great customer service. And they are located in CT.

 

[KD3PC]

Blue Seas and Victron...anything else will bite you later....don't skimp on connectors, crimps and shrink...

 

[Scott T-Bird]

What are pros/cons regarding breakers vs fuses?

 

[FourPoints]

What are pros/cons regarding breakers vs fuses?

Breakers will pop when they overload, and you can reset them by turning off and back on.

Fuses will blow when they overload, and you have to replace them with a new one (which means you have to HAVE a new one available)

Fuses are very cheap, so even if you blow a lot of fuses blowing over the life of a panel, a fused panel is probably still cheaper than a breaker panel.

I was a little skeptical when looking at the website, but I called Bass anyway(http://www.bassproducts.com/panels.htm) and have to say the customer service was fantastic! I called late in the day, and the owner of the company ended up answering the phone. I spent over 30 min chatting about his company and it's history, in addition to the products and which one fit my needs (BTW, he promises to have a better website up and running soon).

He just quoted me a custom laid out panel, modified to my needs (fitting the bilge switch and the 12v socket into the main panel), and it's still (slightly) cheaper than any of the options I listed above, and they don't include the cost of the bilge switch or the 12v socket!

Given the fact they make panels for the US Navy surface and submarine fleet, and are the sole electrical panel supplier for Hinkley, and actually used to make the panels for Blue Sea before they got big, I suspect that the quality of the panel should be at least on par with that of Blue Sea...

 

[KD3PC]

fuses and their holders may carrode or the holder may weaken with constant heat/cool cycles thus causing intermittents. The stab fuses that the automakers use may offer some better reliability over the "holders". Fuses need to be sized correctly and for the style of load they carry (fast/slo blow). Plus carrying the proper size spares.

breakers may not fail when one expects them to, i.e. over current. They should be cycled on and off regularly. They take up more space and should be labeled as to their devices. Pro - they are so easy to use!

All that being said, I would opt for Blue Sea breakers, were I doing a rewire.

You guys?

 

[tommays]

Depending on the fuse holder there a bit of a PITA to change and its two more places to get a bad connection


In my case i am staying with the original location and the Blue Sea Contura panels have Ignition protected breakers/switchs for installation aboard gasoline powered boats.

This makes my job a lot more easy and a bit safer because the location is on and engine area bulkhead and any place else would a big PITA

 

[Tim R.]

Blue seas breakers are the same design as Bass. So they are interchangeable. I needed a breaker in a pinch and bought a Blue Seas and it fit perfectly.

Bass also makes the panels for Caliber Yachts. I can assure everyone that their panels are very nice. They do need a better website though.

 

[FourPoints]

Blue seas breakers are the same design as Bass. So they are interchangeable. I needed a breaker in a pinch and bought a Blue Seas and it fit perfectly.

Bass also makes the panels for Caliber Yachts. I can assure everyone that their panels are very nice. They do need a better website though.

According to the owner, Anthony Sposato, Bass actually designed and manufactured the panels for Blue Sea for many years, so this doesn't surprise me in the least (I actually suspected they might be as the pictures look like the same parts used).

 

[Maine Sail]

Blue seas breakers are the same design as Bass. So they are interchangeable. I needed a breaker in a pinch and bought a Blue Seas and it fit perfectly.
.

They are often referred to as "world series" breakers. They have been in use since at least 1981 but may go back even further. They are made by Carling Technologies but each vendor packages them up a little different. Some come with black screws for the panel some silver and some suppliers ship them without screws. Great breakers and very reliable. Bass does make excellent stuff..

 

[FourPoints]

Personally I would stay away from BEP. Blue Seas makes bomb proof stuff at an excellent value.

Since Bass is quoting me a 100% custom setup for roughly 25% less than the equivalent Blue Sea components would be, and they are made of basically the same parts, and considering the ease of customer service there, I think it's a no-brainier. I'm going to go with the Bass panel. It's great to know that should there ever be a problem with Bass, the Blue Sea parts will also fit!

now I just need to figure out what amperage to setup each circuit for...

 

[Stu Jackson]

Fuses are very cheap, so even if you blow a lot of fuses blowing over the life of a panel...a fused panel is probably still cheaper than a breaker panel.

s'cuse me, but WTF? Really. I had our boat for over 13 years and have never popped a fuse. I have tons of backup fuses, all carefully sorted and labeled since fuse sizes are a bear to read even with a 20 year old's eyes, and them ain't mine! If someone is blowing fuses, something is much more wrong than the panel.

Of course breakers are more expensive.

We've had lots of our skippers change their old panels out for breakers and some have done beautiful jobs.

But the basic circuits on our boats haven't changed much over the years, if you compare our OEM 1986 panel circuiting with a 2009 C34, pretty much the same stuff.

In your case, however, it would be, I think, foolish to use fuses only, in this day and age.

As far as equipment, Maine Sail is right.

 

[FourPoints]

s'cuse me, but WTF? Really. I had our boat for over 13 years and have never popped a fuse. I have tons of backup fuses, all carefully sorted and labeled since fuse sizes are a bear to read even with a 20 year old's eyes, and them ain't mine! If someone is blowing fuses, something is much more wrong than the panel.

Of course breakers are more expensive.

I've never blown a fuse on my boat either (although I have been on OPB's that blew fuses regularly and thought nothing of it, I never stayed long...), I was only making a comparison to the cost difference between a fused panel, which you have to maintain spare fuses on hand, and a breaker panel, which if you do pop a breaker is just a matter of resetting.

As for reading the fuses, Despite all the time I spend in front of a computer monitor, I've always had better than 20/20 vision so that hasn't been an issue for me, yet...

I don't know that I would agree that using fuses is foolish, but given the options at hand, I feel that not going with the Bass panel would be. I cannot tell anything I would gain by paying Blue Sea ~$400 for what Bass will give me for ~$300, they use the same components... I'm also happy to give the business to a responsive local company, that if I had to I could be knocking on their door in just over an hour.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Size your CBs for the wire max ampacity downstream from the CB. Then you have to use a fuse (that comes with the unit) to protect the appliance. So the CB safes the wire and the fuse safes the appliance.
Course that is the textbook answer, you can always be cheaper by buying very small CBs to protect the appliances AND the wires. But then you have to worry about the timing of the safety device. CB will take longer to trip and allow ~110 over current before they trip if they do not see a dead short. A fuse can be either slow blow or fast blow so your $3000 chart plotter MAY be protected by a CB the same rating as the inline fuse that came with the unit but you are accepting risk. This is much more important with electronics than motors. Going the small CB route also prevents you from hanging more stuff (typical of the electronics circuit) on the circuit without buying a new CB.
So the cheapest easiest to upgrade route would be a fuse at the panel that is the correct type (slow/fast blow) and can handle the total amps for all devices. You do need to consider that 2 or more devices on the circuit are going to drive you to making a decision on fuse amp capacity. Most electronics have a fuse that is fast blow and significantly larger than the max amp draw for the device for just that reason.
Eg
As supplied from the manufacturer;
Chart plotter in line fuse FB 5 amp
GPS in line fuse FB 5 amp
Wind/depth/speed Seatalk circuit in line fuse SB 5 amp

If you look at the current draw of all the above it is much less than 5 amps so a 5 amp FB fuse mounted at the panel will work fine. If one of them had a 1 amp in line fuse then you could either just leave it’s in line fuse on it and go with the 5 amp on the panel or try and live with a 1 amp on the panel. Course if you are going that route why even bother just go back to the textbook answer, CBs for wires and inline for appliances.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

When we purchased our boat there were 2 or 3 blown fuses that I replaced. I don't think I've had to replace one yet since then, but our electrical use is very light. My DC panel is fused, the AC panel has breakers ... I suppose that may have been common for our vintage.