Electrical panel backing board

Ward H · Jun 18, 2024

Did you look at Blue Sea Systems. They have DC panels in many sizes up to 24 positions.

ggrizzard · Jun 18, 2024

Check the ABYC regulations if possible.
I'm not sure if there is a requirement for "heat / fire resistant" material.
And I agree with Ward concerning Blue Seas. They have a wide selection,
both vertical and horizontal orientation.

thinwater · Jun 19, 2024

G10 is flame retardant. Also G7 and G9. This is one of the things these are specifically made for.

1/8-inch is probably all you need.

It is also acceptable to use metal. Most commercial and home panels are. You just insulate.

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jssailem · Jun 19, 2024

This has been a 3 year project on my boat. And I had help.
Panel was made by my buddy on a CNC machine. Cut out of an aluminum sheet.

We moved all of the wiring from a 8 breaker panel to the new 21 breaker panel. Moved all the wiring from the engine bay up to the Nav Station. Built a panel closing off the hull side of the nav station. Then we framed the new electrical panel and inserted it into the nav station panel. There are holes for radios and other gear.

Labels are readily available. We used the BlueSea data for their breakers to help create the template for the panel.

Consideration for the various systems we wanted and how we would route the wires took a fair proportion of the time.

dLj · Jun 19, 2024

As you are designing your panel I just thought I'd share a photo of a section of my panel that I actually find very useful. There is a side profile of my boats navigation lights with LED lights that illuminate when that circuit is turned on. I have found it very useful - much more than I would have imagined. Here I just turned everything on so it's easier to see the lights.

dj

p s. My panel is aluminum. For what it's worth...

thinwater · Jun 19, 2024

The OP said "backing" panel, so assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that he is mounting components, such as bus bars and terminal strips, out of sight.

A mounting panel is totally different.

Really, the tendency of boats to use breakers as switches is pretty silly. We have modest boats with as many breakers as a home. With LED lighting, the loads are just not all that. To me, local switches and wireless switches often make more sense. I think the "main panel" philosophy is just a boating habit.

Fred, you may not need more breakers, only local switches. Think about it.

dLj · Jun 19, 2024

thinwater said:
The OP said "backing" panel, so assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that he is mounting components, such as bus bars and terminal strips, out of sight.

A mounting panel is totally different.

Really, the tendency of boats to use breakers as switches is pretty silly. We have modest boats with as many breakers as a home. With LED lighting, the loads are just not all that. To me, local switches and wireless switches often make more sense. I think the "main panel" philosophy is just a boating habit.

Fred, you may not need more breakers, only local switches. Think about it.

Really interesting point... I've redone the whole backbone of my 12V system and over the next couple years or so will redo the rest of my wiring. I'm going to keep this in mind as I redo the rest.

dj

twodzusfittings · Jun 20, 2024

could use a few more instruments, but I'm not sure what to get?

IT'S NOT REALLY MINE, JUST THOUGHT I'D PUT SOME HUMOR INTO THIS THREAD!

thinwater · Jun 20, 2024

dLj said:
Really interesting point... I've redone the whole backbone of my 12V system and over the next couple years or so will redo the rest of my wiring. I'm going to keep this in mind as I redo the rest.

dj

My first cruising boat had fuses and they were corroded. I replaced the mess, though I did not add more stuff.

My second boat had a wonderful panel that hinged open and had many extra breakers, including spare labels. I even added AC, to code, without upgrading anything. PDQ did a superlative job.

My F-24 has required some additions, but I did them without adding breakers.

Because of the changes to LED most of the breakers had plenty of available power.
I added a sub-panel forward with terminal strips, ground bus, and a timer (separate story). The main panel was hard to reach and the sub panel location reduced wiring runs. Easy. It is located in a place where contact with metal objects is not possible and it is high enough that it cannot flood if the boat is holed (trimaran).
I used one wireless switch, mounted near the cockpit, for the deck light. It was simpler than running the wire and I can turn on the deck light from the dinghy (handy for finding the boat at anchor). $25. The kit came with both a surface mount button and a key fob.

You may very well need only a sub panel and some local switches. LEDs have freed up a lot of amps on most boats.

pgandw · Jun 20, 2024

thinwater said:
The OP said "backing" panel, so assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that he is mounting components, such as bus bars and terminal strips, out of sight.

A mounting panel is totally different.

Really, the tendency of boats to use breakers as switches is pretty silly. We have modest boats with as many breakers as a home. With LED lighting, the loads are just not all that. To me, local switches and wireless switches often make more sense. I think the "main panel" philosophy is just a boating habit.

Fred, you may not need more breakers, only local switches. Think about it.

The problem with low current devices is that the panel fuses/circuit breakers are needed to protect the wiring, and with low current devices, a separate fuse is needed at the device. The location of the switch really doesn't matter as long as it is sized for the maximum current at that point in the circuit.

Fred W

thinwater · Jun 20, 2024

pgandw said:
The problem with low current devices is that the panel fuses/circuit breakers are needed to protect the wiring, and with low current devices, a separate fuse is needed at the device. The location of the switch really doesn't matter as long as it is sized for the maximum current at that point in the circuit.

Fred W

Yes and no.

Fuses do not protect the device, they protect the wiring. If the pigtail to the device is less than 7" (ABYC E-9.99h) a separate fuse for the pigtail is not required.h. Pigtails - Pigtails less than 7 inches in length are exempt from overcurrent protection requirements.
A lighting or instrument circuit typically has always had many devices that are not rated for the full capacity of the circuit breaker. Changing to LED does not change this.

You still need to run 18 awg minimum wire runs, and I think most of us use 16 awg as a minimum to match breaker sizes. But pigtails are different.

pgandw · Jun 20, 2024

A low current instrument or device which can overheat with an internal short circuit should be protected by an individual fuse, regardless of what standards say or do not say. That is why microwaves, radios, computers, etc., have internal fuses. Light bulbs never needed this protection because they are actually a fuse in and of themselves. LEDs are similar. LED driver circuits are an open question these days, depending on type of circuit. Resistor drivers are fine, active drivers maybe not so fine.

Fuses/circuit breakers are always needed to protect the wires. The 7" pigtail rule is OK if the device has internal protection of some kind. If you have seen overheated wires ignite a fire (I have - unfused 6 ga wire paralleling batteries which got unevenly charged melted their insulation, glowed red, and ignited hydrogen off-gassing from the batteries), you would make sure you always have fuses/circuit breakers.

Fred W

thinwater · Jun 20, 2024

I think we're going in circles.

We were talking about LEDs.
The comment about local protection is unchanged for instruments etc. , since the panel breaker in off-the-shelf panels the OP is considering will be 15 A anyway. Local in-line fuses are common practice and I said nothing different.

LloydB · Jun 21, 2024

"A low current instrument or device which can overheat with an internal short circuit should be protected by an individual fuse, regardless of what standards say or do not say." So would that be a standard or am I just overly protective of my lawn ?

thinwater · Jun 21, 2024

My point was not to challenge anything that is in the standards or good practice. My point is that now that we have switched to LEDs, unless you are adding a large user (AC, refrigeration) it is likely you have enough amps and enough breakers. You will need to work through which items need separate breakers practical reasons (AC) vs. items that can be added to a lighting circuit, for example, and only need a switch and perhaps local over current protection. The need for local over current protection has nothing to do with whether additional breakers are mounted or not, since the local fuse will be 1-2 amps and the breakers is probably 15 amps. Separate issues.

If you add a disposal to your home sink you likely add a fresh breaker to take the load. If you had a 0.1 amp LED porch light you need to add a local switch but it can branch off any lighting circuit that is not over committed. Very likely your 70s house had incandescent ceiling fixtures installed, and you have replaced those with LED fixtures, reducing the total load.

I'm not sayin' that old panels shouldn't be replaced. Everything has a lifespan, which depends on use, humidity, and initial quality.

dLj · Jul 3, 2024

fred1diver said:
where did you get that nice panel ? Thinking about doing something similar

It came with my boat. Probably made by the manufacturer of my boat or at least custom made for my boat at the time - it's 40 years old...

dj

jviss · Jul 5, 2024

thinwater said:
You still need to run 18 awg minimum wire runs, and I think most of us use 16 awg as a minimum to match breaker sizes.

I believe ABYC calls for 16AWG minimum.

"ABYC requires minimum of 16AWG on most single conductor wire runs (so even if the table or calculator says 18AWG, you should use 16AWG if running a single wire). "

Selecting The Correct Wire Gauge for Your Lights

Electrical panel backing board

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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