Electrical Charging System Upgrade (Mostly Complete)

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Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
So I have been planning (and replanning, and replanning and asking advice of others) an upgrade to the electrical system. The upgrade was sparked by Blue Sea discontinuing the fuse that was in line between my battery charger and my batteries. Since I was going to be messing around with this system, I decided to make upgrades to add capacity to my system and monitoring to allow me to manage the electrical system better. In regards to increasing the capacity, it had been bothering me that I had these two giant 4D batteries but was actually limited to the power of one, while the other would be just sitting there in reserve. This seemed to be a bit of a waste to me.

So, with a huge amount of help from MaineSail (aka Compass Marine) I finally settled on the wiring diagram below.


This weekend my brother-in-law, Jason, and my friend, Tom from Sunshine, spent the weekend with me running wires, designing the law out of the new system, fixing the install of the battery charger I did in 2011 and cutting and replacing more zipties than one could imagine.

Jason is the smallest of the group. So he got the unpleasant job of being the troll int he back cave, between the water heater and the holding tank. After a couple of hours of work, he had remounted the charger, disconnected and removed for reuse the 4 gauge red wire that had been for battery #2, added a case ground I had neglected to install in 2011, ran the cable for the remote panel and the batter temperature sensor into the main cabin and reconnected the whole area with zip ties. Here is final look of the charger (forgot to take a before picture).


While Jason was stuck in the cave, Tom was installing the charger remove, battery monitor control unit and a 12 volt double USB charger at the navigation station. Here is what he started with at the nav. station.

Tom is a phenomenal craftsman and laid out the area perfectly. Here is what the area looked like after the installation.


Meanwhile, I was working with the batteries. I disconnected the batteries, remove the existing fuse blocks and lifted the heavy ass 4Ds out of the battery box. Here is what the battery box looked like when we started.

After remove the batteries, I figured out that someone, either the previous owner or the deal who commissioned the boat, had added a battery box. However, when they did this, they put several holes in the box in an attempted to screw it down. Here is a shot of the empty battery box.

So I patch the wholes and rescrewed down the box, bedding the screws to keep the box water tight.

Next, the three of us pondered how to set up a sheet of starboard to serve as the mounting surface for the components of the new system. Did I mention Tom is really good a building things? Well he was able to convert a piece of 3/16-inch by one-inch aluminum bar into a professional looking bracket to hold the starboard at a perfect angle between the battery box and settee. Here are a couple of photos.

That was a great place to end Saturday.

On Sunday, the three of us spent most of the day just trying to figure out how to layout the board to optimize the space on the starboard. In the end, I was happy with the layout, it took up a little more space than I had initially thought it would and there is no space for a solar controller that I plan to add later. Here are a couple of shots.


Obviously I still have to do all of the terminals. I am borrowing a professional grade crimper for that project but I forgot to get it from my friend John before he left for the Bahamas. He runs the parts and service department at a local boat dealer and I will be getting the group 24 reserve battery from him as well. The group 24 reserve battery will be installed in the adjacent settee storage, as suggested by Tom J a fellow C310 owner.
I also will be putting a bus bar near the engine for the grounds instead of stacking up too many connections right to the block. I started to look at that but no real progress yet to show.

I will post an update with the final photos once complete.

Cross posted on my blog.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Looking good.

What fuse did BSS discontinue..?

That jumper between fuses, what is it made of?
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Looking good.

What fuse did BSS discontinue..?

That jumper between fuses, what is it made of?
Thanks and thanks again for the help.

BSS discontined the AGC(I think that was the name) slow-blow in 40 amp. They still make them up to 30 amp but with a 40 amp charger that won't do. I could special order some from Granite City Electric but they were about $30 each by the time I was done and were not really made for this application. Switching to an ANL style just made more sense so I only have to cary the one style for those fuses.

That jump bar is currently aluminum. The copper bar I ordered online was back order and I might have to cancel that order and go to a different supplier. I didn't want the lack of the copper bar to slow us up and I had left over Al from the bracket Tom made for the starboard. I plan to replace it before energizing the system.
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
UPDATE - March 5th - Batteries by the Numbers

Thanks to this project my primary bank will now consist of two Interstate Deep Cycle/Cranking 12 volt SRM-4D Batteries. The batteries are each 21 inches long by 8 1/4 inches wide by 10 3/8 inches high and weigh 119 pounds (ouch). They can produce 1314 cold cranking amps and have a 190 Ah capacity each. So the new primary bank should have 380 Ah capacity.

I emailed Interstate and their Engineering and Technical Services Specialist replied within an hour that the Peukert number for these batteries is 1.39. Very impressed by the quick response and the engineer gave me his cell number incase I have any problems.

With this, I now have what I need to program my battery monitor.

Looking at my charging systems. I have a 55 amp alternator that was stock with my boat. That is getting rebuilt as part of this project. That would take almost 4 hours (assuming 100% efficiency, which is not very likely) to recharge my system from 50% state of charge. So my current alternator is sized at approximately 14% of the system while 25% is generally recommended. I don't like that, so I will have to see how long it takes to bring the bank down to 85% state of charge since that will only take an hour or so to recharge. Hopefully that can work for now. Later I plan to add some solar panels which will help with my charging away from the dock.

As far as shore power charging, I have a Xantrex TRUECharge2 40 Amp. Again assuming 100% efficiency, this should be able to recharge my system from a 50% state of charge in about 5 hours. In other words the system is sized at about 10% of the system. This should be OK. If I want to charge off of a generator I may decide to increase to a 60 amp charger.

Hopefully I will have this project done in next weekend.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Recharging & Battery Acceptance

Nice job. One thing, though, in your recharging estimates of time, you need to take into account battery acceptance. It's not a straight line when recharging.

Battery Acceptance by Stu http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4787.0.html

Battery Acceptance (a very good Maine Sail presentation and further discussions) http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=114054

Battery Acceptance Observations by Maine Sail
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=674108&highlight=battery acceptance
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
JK,

Could you not fit 6V batteries height wise? 4D's would be very low on my list in a battery for cruising.

Also I do question the accuracy of that Peukert#.. Interstate gets those batteries from Johsnon Controls and Johnson Controls is horrible at supplying accurate date when it comes to things like Peukert etc.. It very well could be a 1.39 but that means at any loads over 19A your batteries are going to perform rather poorly in terms of capacity and drop voltage.

As an example the Deka 4D sold by West Marine is rated at 135Ah's and has a Peukert of 1.23. While there are some differences in 4D's the 190Ah and 1.39 do seem a touch out of line with the rest of the commercially available 4D's.. The Exide Nautilus Gold is 160Ah's and has a Peukert of 1.26 IIRC.....
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Could you not fit 6V batteries height wise? 4D's would be very low on my list in a battery for cruising
I had to use the Interstate 6volt GC2s as a size comparison, since Sam's Club doesn't publish the dimensions of the Duracell EGC2s (which is what I would probably go with for 6 volts). So based on this comparison, the 6 volts are 3/4 of an inch taller. I should be able to fit that height fine. I essentially have 3 inches between the top of the 4Ds and bottom of the settee. And at 67 pounds I would much rather lift those than the 119 pound 4Ds.

As far as the foot print, 4-5 of the 6 volts would fit in the same area as the 4Ds.

This is something I have been considering since I helped a friend with his Duracell EGC2s based on your previous post on the subject.

I had considered making this switch last year when one of my 4Ds died but I got a great price on a replacement from a friend that runs a marine service department. I paid $85 for the 4D which is basically what it would cost me for one of the 6 volt Duracells.

Also I do question the accuracy of that Peukert#.. Interstate gets those batteries from Johsnon Controls and Johnson Controls is horrible at supplying accurate date when it comes to things like Peukert etc.. It very well could be a 1.39 but that means at any loads over 19A your batteries are going to perform rather poorly in terms of capacity and drop voltage.

As an example the Deka 4D sold by West Marine is rated at 135Ah's and has a Peukert of 1.23. While there are some differences in 4D's the 190Ah and 1.39 do seem a touch out of line with the rest of the commercially available 4D's.. The Exide Nautilus Gold is 160Ah's and has a Peukert of 1.26 IIRC.....
So, I went to the Interstate website and here are the specs they publish on the 4Ds:
CCA=1314 MCA=1645 RC(Min.) 25A=390
Hrs. at Ampere Load 5A=38.0 hrs | 15A=11.5 hrs | 25=6.5 hrs

I then found this RV site that let's calculate the Peukert Number from the information included above.

That came up with a Peukert's Exponent of 1.16 and a Peukert Capacity of 273 Ah.

So based on this information, I am looking for some advice as to which number to use or some place to look for better info.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I had to use the Interstate 6volt GC2s as a size comparison, since Sam's Club doesn't publish the dimensions of the Duracell EGC2s (which is what I would probably go with for 6 volts). So based on this comparison, the 6 volts are 3/4 of an inch taller. I should be able to fit that height fine. I essentially have 3 inches between the top of the 4Ds and bottom of the settee. And at 67 pounds I would much rather lift those than the 119 pound 4Ds.

As far as the foot print, 4-5 of the 6 volts would fit in the same area as the 4Ds.

This is something I have been considering since I helped a friend with his Duracell EGC2s based on your previous post on the subject.

I had considered making this switch last year when one of my 4Ds died but I got a great price on a replacement from a friend that runs a marine service department. I paid $85 for the 4D which is basically what it would cost me for one of the 6 volt Duracells.



So, I went to the Interstate website and here are the specs they publish on the 4Ds:
CCA=1314 MCA=1645 RC(Min.) 25A=390
Hrs. at Ampere Load 5A=38.0 hrs | 15A=11.5 hrs | 25=6.5 hrs

I then found this RV site that let's calculate the Peukert Number from the information included above.

That came up with a Peukert's Exponent of 1.16 and a Peukert Capacity of 273 Ah.

So based on this information, I am looking for some advice as to which number to use or some place to look for better info.
JK,

You can't back into that data. It has to come directly from the manufacturer and be accurate. The 6V batteries have significantly thicker plates thus considerably longer cycle life than a 12V battery such as a 4D. Most ALL 4D flooded batteries, except for a small company called Dyno, makes a "dual purpose" 4D not a true deep cycle battery. Many companies have no qualms slapping the "deep cycle" moniker on a battery that is not.....

If you already have them, use them til they die, but if not grab some 6V and you'll be a happy camper......
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Thanks for the help again.

The way I am currently looking at it is that I have these 4Ds for now. I will use the number from Interstate and it seems that may under estimate the SOC, so I would be conservative which is better than being the other way.

We plan to leave to go cruising in June of 2015. The first 6 months or so will be along the east coast heading south and we probably won't be making the hop to the Bahamas until early 2016.

If the 4Ds last me until then and I replace them in Fla before making the hop, that would be acceptable and I would be able to replace them cheaper before being in the Bahamas or Caribbean.

By the way, I think we are heading Down East at the end of June and first week of July this summer. If we are ever in the same neighborhood, I owe you some beers or something for all the help.

With the new system and the addition of the battery charger remote and battery monitor, I should be able to get a much better understanding of our energy use and charging requirements to help me decide on additional equipment and new batteries down the line.
 
Feb 12, 2013
97
C&C 35 MKIII k/c Rock Creek, Chesapeake
Going back to Stus comment on your charging time Assuming you are at 50% which is hard for wet cells you have 190ah to get into the batteries. As Stu mentioned it isnt a straightline acceptance to 100% charged. Usually about 85%or 325 ah it will hit the wall and the charger/ alternator will not be able to put in the 40/55 amps. So from325-180you get your full charge...about 3-4 hours worth depending on alternator or Xantrex.

The from 345ah (85%) to 380ah(100%) the amount of charge acceptance drops... the three stage cgarger you have compensates for that.

Maine Sail can explain this better than I ever could.
 
Dec 25, 2008
1,580
catalina 310 Elk River
I'm about to replace my (3) 4ds after 7 seasons. Is there a better choice than the T105s assuming they will fit? What should I be paying for them?
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
UPDATE – March 7th – Cost & Final Wiring Diagram

So here is the final wiring diagram for this project.

And here is the final cost.
 
Dec 25, 2008
1,580
catalina 310 Elk River
Witz where is your third 4d located?
In the seat compartment right next to the stock location plenty of room in there, doubt I will bother replacing that one.
I measured the current location 21"L x 17" W x 12"H so (4) of the T105s will fit in the standard box.
Stopped by Advanced Auto today and they have a Auto craft 6v for 115AH for $115 that is just a little shorter. Even cheaper Sears has a 6v Die Hard 195AH for $99.
I'm only a weekender so my usage is minimal.
Not sure where I can get T105s locally.
I
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Witzend,

Have you looked at the Duracell's at Sam's Club. Around $85 for similar battery and Maine Sail had a write up that was very positive of them.

Fair winds,

Jesse
 
Dec 25, 2008
1,580
catalina 310 Elk River
Funny online they don't provide a price. What does it cost to join?
 
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