My family and I spend many weekends aboard our 1985 3o' Catalina (home away from home). We think we would like to install an electric head next season, and I was hoping I could find some opinions on make and model from past experiences of others. I would like to use fresh water flush, any disadvantages with this besides the obvious of using our supply faster. Pumping out is not an issue really, because it is 2 min from our dock. The reason we are looking to install one is to make life a little more comfortable. Thanks in advance for any and all advise.
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electric heads
are just another gadget to drain your batteries or fail, probably at just the wrong time, then what are you going to do with kids and a wife who have to GO, NOW? A convential MSD is easy to use, can be flushed with fresh water, which is a good thing, and if they fail, which is very rare, they can be fixed or contrived up for the weekend. I'd stick to the manual kind.
are just another gadget to drain your batteries or fail, probably at just the wrong time, then what are you going to do with kids and a wife who have to GO, NOW? A convential MSD is easy to use, can be flushed with fresh water, which is a good thing, and if they fail, which is very rare, they can be fixed or contrived up for the weekend. I'd stick to the manual kind.
Raritan SeaEra
lots of discussion in the Head Mistress archives which I won't repeat but the subject brand is well recommended as a replacement for the cheap manual heads which are notoriously unreliable. I replaced one of our's with this one 2 years ago and my wife is much happier. As it has it's own macerator, it can be more forgiving. It uses around 10 amps to run the macerator but as it is on for only a few seconds, the current drain from the batteries is negligible (10 amphrs divided by 60 min divided by 5/6 minute equals essentially nothing). Just be careful to properly isolate the fresh water supply so there is no plumbing connection to the potable water tanks. With our's, I isolated one of the four tanks specifically for the head and as it is the same capacity as the holding tank, there isn't much chance of running dry...
lots of discussion in the Head Mistress archives which I won't repeat but the subject brand is well recommended as a replacement for the cheap manual heads which are notoriously unreliable. I replaced one of our's with this one 2 years ago and my wife is much happier. As it has it's own macerator, it can be more forgiving. It uses around 10 amps to run the macerator but as it is on for only a few seconds, the current drain from the batteries is negligible (10 amphrs divided by 60 min divided by 5/6 minute equals essentially nothing). Just be careful to properly isolate the fresh water supply so there is no plumbing connection to the potable water tanks. With our's, I isolated one of the four tanks specifically for the head and as it is the same capacity as the holding tank, there isn't much chance of running dry...
Raritan Sea Era
Finishing our third season with the Sea Era and has workied great! We spend an average of 80 days a year on our boat and have had no problems with the Sea Era. Highly recommend it.
Finishing our third season with the Sea Era and has workied great! We spend an average of 80 days a year on our boat and have had no problems with the Sea Era. Highly recommend it.
If you want to flush with fresh water
Choose the version that's designed to use pressurized flush water. Unlike the sea water version, it's not necessary to isolate flush water supply if the toilet is the version that's designed to use pressurized fresh water...it's only necessary if the toilet is designed to use sea water. The Raritan SeaEra is, hands down, the most reliable durable toilet in its class...and is available in both sea water and pressurized flush water versions. You can read all the specs for here: http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era.html The pressurized flush water version also only draws 10 amps--vs 16 for the sea water model--and uses about 1/3 less flush water than the sea water version. And--also unlike electric toilets designed to use sea water--toilets that use pressurized flush water are VERY quiet...even quieter than most household toilets. Larry, electric macerating toilets actually require far LESS maintenance than manual toilets...and therefore have a much lower failure or clog rate than most manual toilets.
Choose the version that's designed to use pressurized flush water. Unlike the sea water version, it's not necessary to isolate flush water supply if the toilet is the version that's designed to use pressurized fresh water...it's only necessary if the toilet is designed to use sea water. The Raritan SeaEra is, hands down, the most reliable durable toilet in its class...and is available in both sea water and pressurized flush water versions. You can read all the specs for here: http://www.raritaneng.com/products/toilets/electric/sea_era.html The pressurized flush water version also only draws 10 amps--vs 16 for the sea water model--and uses about 1/3 less flush water than the sea water version. And--also unlike electric toilets designed to use sea water--toilets that use pressurized flush water are VERY quiet...even quieter than most household toilets. Larry, electric macerating toilets actually require far LESS maintenance than manual toilets...and therefore have a much lower failure or clog rate than most manual toilets.
I took Peggie's advice...
and installed the pressurized water version of the SeaEra. I installed this spring and it is the best improvement I have made to the boat. Prior to this I did install an upgraded water pump. You can read about the flow requirements in the link. I bought the conversion kit which allows you to use your existing bowl. Installation took me some time. Wife loves it too.
and installed the pressurized water version of the SeaEra. I installed this spring and it is the best improvement I have made to the boat. Prior to this I did install an upgraded water pump. You can read about the flow requirements in the link. I bought the conversion kit which allows you to use your existing bowl. Installation took me some time. Wife loves it too.
Raritan Raw Versus Fresh
Jerry, I would have to agree with the others that Raritan makes the best electric head. I installed a Raritan Sea Era about 5 years ago (I don't have my maintenance log with me). I've had no problems and everyone finds it easier to use than a manual head. There are actually three options for installation. Raw Water Integral Pump, Raw Water Remote Pump and Fresh Water via a Solenoid. I opted for the Raw Water Remote Pump option. There were three reasons I went with this configuration. Number one was for noise control. Instead of using a diaphragm pump on the end of the toilet macerator / pump it uses a remote pump. This allowed me to mount the pump used to supply the raw water inside a machine / pump area versus attached to the head. Number two was it allowed me use the Raritan option SFW100. This switch allows use to independently control the intake water, the empting of the bowl or a combined flush. This option can and should also be used with the fresh water version as well. It allows total control over the entry and exit of water from the head. The third reason, I got all of the benefits of fresh water (except the potential raw water odor problem) without using my precious fresh water supply. I’ve heard the statement over and over that fresh water electric toilets use less water then raw water toilets. I’m not sure how that’s possible, since the amount of water delivered and ultimately place in your holding tank is based on how the waster is delivered and not what type of water is used. Therefore the use of Raritan option SFW100 used with either the Fresh Water or the Remote Raw Water option should consume and deposit the same amount of water. Good luck with your choice.
Jerry, I would have to agree with the others that Raritan makes the best electric head. I installed a Raritan Sea Era about 5 years ago (I don't have my maintenance log with me). I've had no problems and everyone finds it easier to use than a manual head. There are actually three options for installation. Raw Water Integral Pump, Raw Water Remote Pump and Fresh Water via a Solenoid. I opted for the Raw Water Remote Pump option. There were three reasons I went with this configuration. Number one was for noise control. Instead of using a diaphragm pump on the end of the toilet macerator / pump it uses a remote pump. This allowed me to mount the pump used to supply the raw water inside a machine / pump area versus attached to the head. Number two was it allowed me use the Raritan option SFW100. This switch allows use to independently control the intake water, the empting of the bowl or a combined flush. This option can and should also be used with the fresh water version as well. It allows total control over the entry and exit of water from the head. The third reason, I got all of the benefits of fresh water (except the potential raw water odor problem) without using my precious fresh water supply. I’ve heard the statement over and over that fresh water electric toilets use less water then raw water toilets. I’m not sure how that’s possible, since the amount of water delivered and ultimately place in your holding tank is based on how the waster is delivered and not what type of water is used. Therefore the use of Raritan option SFW100 used with either the Fresh Water or the Remote Raw Water option should consume and deposit the same amount of water. Good luck with your choice.
You're absolutely right, Dave...
IF you want to spend about twice as much $$ for the toilet and remote pump as the pressurized flush water version. There is a safe way to "convert" any sea water toilet to fresh water flush...although it doesn't reduce the noise or conserve flush water: Find a convenient location near the toilet and the head sink drain to stuff an UNvented bladder...tee the fill into the sink drain using a y-valve--and since it doesn't put the boat at risk, even a $3.95 garden hose wye valve from any hardware store will work. Connect the head intake line to the bladder. No other plumbing needed. To fill the bladder, open the valve to it, run water down the sink. Simple and cannot put the fresh water system at risk.
IF you want to spend about twice as much $$ for the toilet and remote pump as the pressurized flush water version. There is a safe way to "convert" any sea water toilet to fresh water flush...although it doesn't reduce the noise or conserve flush water: Find a convenient location near the toilet and the head sink drain to stuff an UNvented bladder...tee the fill into the sink drain using a y-valve--and since it doesn't put the boat at risk, even a $3.95 garden hose wye valve from any hardware store will work. Connect the head intake line to the bladder. No other plumbing needed. To fill the bladder, open the valve to it, run water down the sink. Simple and cannot put the fresh water system at risk.
which model ???
Hi Jerry, We're heading towards the same choice on our 356-which model did you use?-did you get the whole head, or the kit that let's you reuse your bowl?
Hi Jerry, We're heading towards the same choice on our 356-which model did you use?-did you get the whole head, or the kit that let's you reuse your bowl?
The only difference between the kit and the
complete toilet is...the "conversion" has everything BUT the bowl, seat and lid. Everything else is there. So if your bowl, seat and lid are in good condition, you can save money on the toilet and also save quite a bit in shipping cost...'cuz porcelain bowls are heavy! So whether to order the "conversion" or the complete toilet is entirely a matter of what shape your existing bowl, seat and lid are in...or--if your currently have the smaller "standard" size bowl--whether you want to upgrade to the larger household size (and have enough space for it). Btw...Defender http://www.defender.com/ or boatfix http://www.boatfix.com/elec/rarprod.asp have the best prices.
complete toilet is...the "conversion" has everything BUT the bowl, seat and lid. Everything else is there. So if your bowl, seat and lid are in good condition, you can save money on the toilet and also save quite a bit in shipping cost...'cuz porcelain bowls are heavy! So whether to order the "conversion" or the complete toilet is entirely a matter of what shape your existing bowl, seat and lid are in...or--if your currently have the smaller "standard" size bowl--whether you want to upgrade to the larger household size (and have enough space for it). Btw...Defender http://www.defender.com/ or boatfix http://www.boatfix.com/elec/rarprod.asp have the best prices.
Chuck - Raw water intake version
Chuck: We used the raw water intake version - we are on Kentucky Lake and don't have the problems you do in raw sea water intakes. If I were going to Flordia or was in salt water, I would use the fresh water pressurized version. We bought the entire toilet and replaced our Jabsco that came with the boat. Guests don't need much instruction in it's use - I had a plastic sign made for the push button switch that says "Hold until bowl clear". Much easier than explaining the wet bowl/dry bowl and pump. We have also had no clogs - the macerating pump works great.
Chuck: We used the raw water intake version - we are on Kentucky Lake and don't have the problems you do in raw sea water intakes. If I were going to Flordia or was in salt water, I would use the fresh water pressurized version. We bought the entire toilet and replaced our Jabsco that came with the boat. Guests don't need much instruction in it's use - I had a plastic sign made for the push button switch that says "Hold until bowl clear". Much easier than explaining the wet bowl/dry bowl and pump. We have also had no clogs - the macerating pump works great.
Thanks All
Wow, thanks for all the advise. It looks like from all the positive reviews I will be installing the Sea Era pressurized fresh water version. Currently I have a Groco HF toilet with the holding tank to the left of the toilet, not sure how much room I will have but it appears from the manual I should be able to manipulate the toilet to fit and have the discharge facing the right way. Anyway thanks to everyone who offered up an opinion, with out sites like this and peoples input these decisions and jobs would be much more difficult. Keep up the good work Peggy
Wow, thanks for all the advise. It looks like from all the positive reviews I will be installing the Sea Era pressurized fresh water version. Currently I have a Groco HF toilet with the holding tank to the left of the toilet, not sure how much room I will have but it appears from the manual I should be able to manipulate the toilet to fit and have the discharge facing the right way. Anyway thanks to everyone who offered up an opinion, with out sites like this and peoples input these decisions and jobs would be much more difficult. Keep up the good work Peggy
When you're ready to install it...VERY important!
Electric toilets should always be on their own separate dedicated circuit, shared by nothing else--not even cabin lights--that can reduce power to the toilet if it's on at the same time the toilet is flushed...'cuz low voltage to a toilet motor will damage the motor. So if you don't already have an unused 12v circuit, you'll need to install one, along with a new breaker. And when you order it, specify whether you need a straight discharge fitting or a 90...don't try to bend the discharge hose, 'cuz it'll either kink or pull the fitting to one side, causing the toilet to leak at that connection. Finally...read ALL the instructions BEFORE you start work. If you have ANY questions, don't try to wing it, call Raritan.
Electric toilets should always be on their own separate dedicated circuit, shared by nothing else--not even cabin lights--that can reduce power to the toilet if it's on at the same time the toilet is flushed...'cuz low voltage to a toilet motor will damage the motor. So if you don't already have an unused 12v circuit, you'll need to install one, along with a new breaker. And when you order it, specify whether you need a straight discharge fitting or a 90...don't try to bend the discharge hose, 'cuz it'll either kink or pull the fitting to one side, causing the toilet to leak at that connection. Finally...read ALL the instructions BEFORE you start work. If you have ANY questions, don't try to wing it, call Raritan.
Raritan PHE
The only recommadation I have about electric marine toilets is to use the time-tested Raritan PHE II. Among the benefits are that it's easily converted to and from electric in the field, can always be operated manually for when battery power is an issue, and is reliable with cheap parts available anywhere. We use the PHE and related models for C-44 production. Also Raritan is made in New Jersey! --like Cherubini.
The only recommadation I have about electric marine toilets is to use the time-tested Raritan PHE II. Among the benefits are that it's easily converted to and from electric in the field, can always be operated manually for when battery power is an issue, and is reliable with cheap parts available anywhere. We use the PHE and related models for C-44 production. Also Raritan is made in New Jersey! --like Cherubini.
Raritan Electric Head
Wow Peggy, I think we should all be open to more options then are own. There's a reason that Raritan offers so many options: Household bowl, marine bowl, fresh water, raw water, integral pump, remote pump, etc. because different situations call for different solutions. I just checked the price of the remote pump raw water versus the fresh water version and the price difference was $73.00 and not twice as much. (Boatfix Fresh Water $419 Remote Raw Water $492). If you have a moment, I'd also like to hear your theory on why fresh water electric toilets use less water than raw water (assuming there both either using the integral pump or a remote pump). Dave
Wow Peggy, I think we should all be open to more options then are own. There's a reason that Raritan offers so many options: Household bowl, marine bowl, fresh water, raw water, integral pump, remote pump, etc. because different situations call for different solutions. I just checked the price of the remote pump raw water versus the fresh water version and the price difference was $73.00 and not twice as much. (Boatfix Fresh Water $419 Remote Raw Water $492). If you have a moment, I'd also like to hear your theory on why fresh water electric toilets use less water than raw water (assuming there both either using the integral pump or a remote pump). Dave
You'll have to ask Raritan that question
'Cuz they're the one who claim that the pressurized flush water version uses about 1/3 less water than the sea water version. However, it's not too difficult to figure out why: The rate of water flow for the pressurized version is the the GPM delivered by the fresh water pump--about 3 GPM...a solenoid valve simply opens to ALLOW water into the bowl, it doesn't pump anything. Flush water in sea water toilets is delivered by an impeller pump that has to deliver it at a much higher rate of flow to prevent friction from wearing out the impeller. It's the absence of the intake pump that also makes pressurized flush water toilets so much quieter than sea water toilets...'cuz contrary to what most people think, it's the intake pump, not the discharge pump and macerator, that makes all the noise...and uses power that isn't needed by the solenoid valve. And I need to check with Raritan too...'cuz I may be wrong, but I don't THINK the remote intake pump is included with the toilet, but has to be purchased separately. If so, the good news is, you can use just about any washdown pump that's rated to meet the requirements. IMO the remote pump makes sense on large boats that have deep bilges, allowing the pump to be well away from "people" areas...but I dunno where it could go on most sailboats that would put it far enough away from the cabin area to reduce the noise level--which is really the only advantage to it over an integral intake pump--enough to be worth even an extra $75. But hey...it's your boat, your money, and if you're happy with it, that's all that matters.
'Cuz they're the one who claim that the pressurized flush water version uses about 1/3 less water than the sea water version. However, it's not too difficult to figure out why: The rate of water flow for the pressurized version is the the GPM delivered by the fresh water pump--about 3 GPM...a solenoid valve simply opens to ALLOW water into the bowl, it doesn't pump anything. Flush water in sea water toilets is delivered by an impeller pump that has to deliver it at a much higher rate of flow to prevent friction from wearing out the impeller. It's the absence of the intake pump that also makes pressurized flush water toilets so much quieter than sea water toilets...'cuz contrary to what most people think, it's the intake pump, not the discharge pump and macerator, that makes all the noise...and uses power that isn't needed by the solenoid valve. And I need to check with Raritan too...'cuz I may be wrong, but I don't THINK the remote intake pump is included with the toilet, but has to be purchased separately. If so, the good news is, you can use just about any washdown pump that's rated to meet the requirements. IMO the remote pump makes sense on large boats that have deep bilges, allowing the pump to be well away from "people" areas...but I dunno where it could go on most sailboats that would put it far enough away from the cabin area to reduce the noise level--which is really the only advantage to it over an integral intake pump--enough to be worth even an extra $75. But hey...it's your boat, your money, and if you're happy with it, that's all that matters.
Raritan Sea Era
Peggy, Thanks for your reply. I would agree that an integrated intake pump model versus the fresh water or raw water remote pump could use more water. I also think one of the big advantages of the fresh water or remote pump raw water version is the ability to use the Raritan SFW100 switch. This allows you to independently control the water intake and flush process (like the Jabsco Quiet Flush) and really should be considered with all installations. Regarding the noise, I also agree that a fresh water or raw water remote pump is quieter then the integrated pump. I have a Catalina 34 and was able to mount the raw water pump under the sink in the Head Compartment. I believe this arrangement produces the same noise level as the fresh water installation. When the toilet fill option is selected from the SFW100 switch the noise level from the remote raw water pump is comparable to my fresh water pump. Therefore I'll assume they would be comparable. I'm also in agreement that if you have adequate fresh water tankage, the fresh water option provides the best of all worlds. If you don't I think the raw water option gives you many of the advantages with the exception of intake raw water odor control. In the end, I can manage intake water odor control, but if I run out of hot water and the ability to flush the toilet, my family might make me walk the blank. Dave
Peggy, Thanks for your reply. I would agree that an integrated intake pump model versus the fresh water or raw water remote pump could use more water. I also think one of the big advantages of the fresh water or remote pump raw water version is the ability to use the Raritan SFW100 switch. This allows you to independently control the water intake and flush process (like the Jabsco Quiet Flush) and really should be considered with all installations. Regarding the noise, I also agree that a fresh water or raw water remote pump is quieter then the integrated pump. I have a Catalina 34 and was able to mount the raw water pump under the sink in the Head Compartment. I believe this arrangement produces the same noise level as the fresh water installation. When the toilet fill option is selected from the SFW100 switch the noise level from the remote raw water pump is comparable to my fresh water pump. Therefore I'll assume they would be comparable. I'm also in agreement that if you have adequate fresh water tankage, the fresh water option provides the best of all worlds. If you don't I think the raw water option gives you many of the advantages with the exception of intake raw water odor control. In the end, I can manage intake water odor control, but if I run out of hot water and the ability to flush the toilet, my family might make me walk the blank. Dave
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