Effect of Jib on weather helm

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Aug 11, 2006
1,446
Hunter H260 Traverse City
I generally think of the jib as tending to counteract weather helm. However, it would appear logical that the healing moment portion of the forces produced by the jib would do the opposite and increase the weather helm. From a practical standpoint, how do you seperate these forces and produce the most benefit for the least "penalty"? (I'm a pilot also, and I wonder if it's similar to the lift/drag ratio of a wing, which depends on the shape of the wing and on the angle of attack). Thanks. George
 
D

Dave

Forces

Think of it like this. As wind speed increases and the boat heels there is a force vector acting through the center of effort of the sail that is in the direction of the path of the boat. There is another vector that is heeling the boat. Now with the boat heeled say 20 degrees the center of effort is way out over the water on the leeward side of the boat. If you use a moment calculation (force times distance) from the vector moving the boat forward to the center of lateral resistance you can see there is a moment trying to round the boat up into the wind. The vector acting to heel the boat is a moment working to bear off the wind when these two moments are in equalibrium you will have zero weather helm, otherwise you will have some weatherhelm or lee helm. Now couple this to the forces on the mainsail (getting complex?) and you can see that balance is fleeting and depends on sail design, boat design, wind conditions, and heel angle amongst other variables (waves, currents, etc). Happy calculations. Dave dave
 
B

Bob

Boat balance

It is wise to remember where the center of effort on your boat should be. Some knowledge about correct sail trim comes in handy too. Along with adjusting the mainsail for the wind/sea conditions it is important to do the same with the jib/genoa. Moving the cars to increase trist in the jib is a method to spill air off. The goal is to have a balanced helm. Adjsuting the mast rake and bend is also another control too. Keep reading.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
The balancing act between CE and sailmakers data.

One must remember that the Center of Effort is only a designers geometric *concept* tool/target. It is the dynamic output and the as-tensioned sails that yield the summation of vectors that yield balance. CE is only important versus a geometric sail area (and combination/summation of centroids) when the wind is blowing into the sails at 90 degrees !!!!!!! More importantly it is the *dynamic* output of the sails (and the resultant center of 'dynamic' effort that is essential. What I'm getting at is that the sailmaker is as important as the designer to match the essential 'neutral balance' .... as the sailmaker adds a certain amount of preload to the luff of each sail and unless those luff preloads are stretched to the sailmakers designs when sailing - the boat will NEVER be at the optimum set-up. Most sails are manufactured with the luff tape and/or bolt rope purposely pre-shrunk or physically shortened so that when fully wind loaded the sail actually meets the design conditions. The real balancing act becomes between the designers target CE and the sailmakers geometry and dynamic output (as affected by preloaded luffs). When the designers CE and the sailmakers (dynamic) CE are matched, only then is the boat set up to the Optimum. Without knowing the sail construction, etc. data one will ALWAYS be LESS than at an optimum set-up. You HAVE to know the built-in preload on the luff tapes/ropes .... or you never will get balance at the OPTIMUM design set-up. So ...... unless you know the exact tensions (sailmakers construction data) to apply (for precise draft location / position) to the luffs (vs. windrange) expect to de-tune 'something' to get the balance that you need. If you dont have this preload data ..... everything else in set-up will be simply a 'guess'. Think draft location, draft location, draft location and how does this balance vs. the static geometric 'concept' of CE.
 
F

Franklin

Lots of variables

As said before, balance is a result of CE. Healing causes weather helm, but having a foreward CE causes Lee helm. If you only have the jib out, then there is a good chance that you have lee helm because the foreward CE overpowers the weather helm caused by healing. There are a lot of things that will affect the CE and many have been pointed out below but I think the one thing that wasn't made clear is that the effectiveness of the sails is the easiest temporary change that can be made to get a near balanced helm (having a little weather helm helps to keep the boat going straight). So, if your sailing along and seem to have too much weather helm, try making the main less effective. You can spill air, reef or furl or change the angle. If you can make the jib more effective, then that will help balance it too. I hope this helps. Seems everytime a question comes out about balance, the answers are so complicated that you need a degree in engineering to understand them. I try to keep things simple.
 
Jun 2, 2004
425
- - Sandusky Harbor Marina, Lake Erie
Simplification?

The sails push the boat forward and sideways, resulting in speed, and heel respectively. This force can be summarized as a single arrow operating though the Center of Effort ("CE") of the sails (and hull above the water.) At the same time, the keel and hull (below the water) push sideways and backwards with a combination of water flow, and ballast weight. The sideways push balances the wind's sideways push at a given heel. The backwards push or resistance limits the boat's speed. This force can be summarized by a single arrow operating through the Center of Lateral Resislance ("CLR"). If the CLR is forward of the CE, the boat will turn into the wind. Steering the rudder downwind moves the CLR aft until it is right below the CE. Then the boat will move straight, and the force on the rudder creates weather helm. If CLR is forward of the CE, you could also balance the boat by increasing effective sail area forward or decreasing it aft of the current CE. So the jib is key to keeping the sail area forward, and reducing the need to move the CLR aft with excessive "weather" helm. Reefing or detuning the main will reduce effective sail area aft moving the CE forward to reduce the amount of rudder required. Since excessive rudder acts as a brake on the boat, this is one reason why reefing is usually faster. Heeling typically does not move the CE forward or aft. But it does reduce the effectiveness of the rudder since more of its force now pushes down, instead of sideways. So heeling moves CLR forward (by making the rudder less effective) and creates more weather helm. Finally, the rudder "stalls" becoming much less effective and the boat rounds up out of control. Note the expression "effective sail area". This is the point already made that tuning the sails definitely changes the CE. In fact, a sailboat can be steered without using the rudder by shifting the effective sail area to keep the CE over the CLR. Not so simple, I guess, but you have to consider the wings above (sails and hull) and below (rudder, keel, and hull) the water as well as the ballast in the keel to understand the causes of weather helm, or any sailing dynamics. David Lady Lillie
 
Dec 8, 2003
100
- - Texas
dynamic effects of heeling

"So heeling moves CLR forward (by making the rudder less effective) and creates more weather helm." I'm fully in agreement that heeling shifts and makes dynamic the CLR and wouldn't argue with the above statement... but would suggest there may be other forces invovled, possibly much more influential than the loss of rudder force. My reason is simple, that almost all sailboats suffer increased weather helm from heeling whether it be the rudder issue outlined by David or the couple mentioned by Dave but some boats suffer much greater heeling induced forces causing weather helm than others. These hulls are now becoming predictable so that "lead" ratios are greatly increased for them in an effort to tame their behavior. However, not much is said regarding the why. Do these hulls experience some force that others don't? I for example have a boat that will experience adverse weather helm under jib alone if she is heeled excessively while there are certainly lots of boats that will suffer lee helm if pressed under jib alone. Why the difference? One theory could be hull lift forces caused by the foil of the hull footprint. A narrow beam hull with reasonable rocker when heeled may not see a significant hull form footprint change because the reasonable leeward hull curvature now immersed is offset by the generous curve of the boat bottom. However, on a wide beam hull with minimum rocker, the heeled hull yields a generous leeward immersed curvature and a much less curvature to windward, a significant asymmetrical form variance yielding a laminar flow variance with a longer path to leeward. If this form variance produces a lifting force, it will be to leeward and have a center of lift and if offset from the CLR will have a dynamic effect of shifting the CLR as its force is added to/subtracted from the CLR forces as CLR is the sum of all hull forces. If the center of the leeward lifting force were aft of the CLR, it would shift the CLR forward and reduce the "lead" and throw the boat out of balance. Interestingly, there is a model that seems to verify this theory. Most boats when trimming the stern down, cause a CLR move aft that reduces weather helm by lengthening the "lead". The Catalina 250 however benefits from trimming the bow down. The why seems to me to be that when trimming the bow down, the center of the asymmetrical form lift is trimmed forward closer to the normal CLR and thus doesn't impose as much forward shift of the CLR and therefore less "lead" reduction effect. Thought along this vane can also explain the great amount of leeway the wider/flatter hull form suffers if it is pressed over too far, that the hull form is lifting to leeward, opposing the windward lift generated by the keel and rudder. Inerestingly, there are some mono hull forms now designed that produce windward lift when heeled. They are forms with generous rocker and wide aft sections with fairly straight lines from the entry to the stern. When heeled, the windward section becomes longer than the leeward and thus low pressure is generated to windward rather than leeward as typcial to traditional mono hull forms. George... in conclusion, it means don't heel too much on a windward course. Check the VMG, it might tell that an upright 4.5 knots yields a better VMG than a 25 degree 5.5 knot, at least it does on my boat.
 
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