Dumb questions...

[butchrobbins]

1) If you are using the dry bowl function does your raw water seacock need to be open?

2) Should you be able to feel some pressure when you are pumping? I get a couple of pumps with pressure and then it seems not to have any resistance.

3) When I pump, there is a leak from around the base of the pump assembly and around the screws at the top. I put a little silicon sealant on them this morning. Should that do the job?

thx

 

[Stephen K]

1. no
2. This is normal...a little pressure at first, then as you clear the line, there should be no pressure.
3. sounds like you don't have the seals / gaskets on properly or the screws at the top turned down tight enough. Be careful not to tighten the top screws too much or you could crack the plastic assembly

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Maybe...maybe not...

1. If you never use anything but dry bowl, the answer is no...the intake thru-hull doesn't need to be open. However, keeping it closed all the time and only adding water to the bowl with the shower head or a cup isn't good for the pump, 'cuz bowl contents only go through the bottom of the pump, which means the seals, o-rings etc dry out.

2. You should feel some pressure for more than just a couple of pumps. However, if the bowl is emptying ok, it's prob'ly fine.

3. Sealant isn't the answer....new seals and gaskets are. However if your tolet is a Jabsco or other cheap compact, the rebuild kit costs almost as much as the whole toilet...so it can make more sense to replace it than maintain it. What's the toilet make/model? How old is it?

 

[alexco38]

Annual replacement of the silly flapper on the Jabsco toilet drove me nuts. In northern climate we have to use plumbing antifreeze to prevent freezing. But looks like the rubber used by Jabsco reacts to the chemical and swell up. The pump became useless.

The silly replacement flapper also cost $20+ dollars each. I Don't have $400+ to replace it with a Raritan either. So I got a sheet of roofing rubber flashing from Home depot which happen to be the same thickness. Traced out the outline with a brandnew replacement flapper and use an box cutter knief to copy it. I also bought a set of hole punches to punch out the holes. The bronze weights can be pryed out and reuse if you are careful.
The toilet is working perfectly now. I also put a scrap piece of rubber in a jar with the pink antizreeze for long term test. It hasn't go fat for 2 months now. I'll find out if that works next spring.

 

[butchrobbins]

1. If you never use anything but dry bowl, the answer is no...the intake thru-hull doesn't need to be open. However, keeping it closed all the time and only adding water to the bowl with the shower head or a cup isn't good for the pump, 'cuz bowl contents only go through the bottom of the pump, which means the seals, o-rings etc dry out.

2. You should feel some pressure for more than just a couple of pumps. However, if the bowl is emptying ok, it's prob'ly fine.

3. Sealant isn't the answer....new seals and gaskets are. However if your tolet is a Jabsco or other cheap compact, the rebuild kit costs almost as much as the whole toilet...so it can make more sense to replace it than maintain it. What's the toilet make/model? How old is it?

On number 3. Turns out there was already a sealant/caulk around there, I just didn't look when I bought the boat and sure enough, the pump housing has some nice cracks in it. I bought some DAP and am applying generously as a short term fix. The toilet is a Jabsco, and retail the whole thing is only about $150-if that. Problem is I am not a DIY (yet) so add in the labor and were at $400-$500.

 

[Stu Jackson]

... the whole thing is only about $150-if that. Problem is I am not a DIY (yet) so add in the labor and were at $400-$500.

Tommyrot! Butch, you get out your tools, you do have some, right? First a screwdriver to undo the three or four hose clamps. Second, pliers or wrenches or ratchets set to remove the three or four lag bolts holding the head to the deck in your head compartment. Pick up head, move off boat. Pick up new head, place in boat. Reverse the lag bolt and hose clamp process. Done.

You would then have become a DIYer. Ya gotta start somewhere.

'Cuz if you don't you won't.

PS Pisssst: Don't tell anyone, but I didn't know which end of a screwdriver was the right end to use. Before we bought our boat 11 years ago, I had put off buying a diesel 'cuz it was easier to take the outboard engine off our old C25 and bring it into the shop. I've come a long way since, but ONLY because I committed to learning and DOING. Go ahead, get your fingers dirty, there's little you can break that you can't fix. Besides, you'll be a SAFER boater from having done things.

PPS - You just saved LOTSA MONEY!!!! Isn't that an incentive?

 

[Schomer]

Tommyrot! Butch, you get out your tools, you do have some, right? First a screwdriver to undo the three or four hose clamps. Second, pliers or wrenches or ratchets set to remove the three or four lag bolts holding the head to the deck in your head compartment. Pick up head, move off boat. Pick up new head, place in boat. Reverse the lag bolt and hose clamp process. Done.

Hi guys. Just bought a Catalina 30 - my first boat - and I think replacing the head is going to be my first DIY boat project! Sounds like it's easy to do.

A couple quick questions... it looks like these Jabsco toilets are cheap and it might be worth the extra money to get a Raritan PHII. Is that what you recommend?

And, is there any concern about the lag bolts lining up with the holes from the previous toilet or can I feel comfortable picking up another, knowing it will go right in where the old one was?

Thanks!

 

[Schomer]

I should also ask... would this be the time to replace the lines to/from the toilet as well, if I'm unhooking them from the toilet, and is that just as easy as replacing the toilet?

Lastly, I was checking everything out in the boat, tried switching the Y valve that goes to the holding tank and thru-hull, from the toilet, and the handle broke. I don't think I care though, because it should always be going to the holding tank, right? Maybe there is a reason to fix this valve that I don't know about... They are roughly $60, so I'd rather save my money

 

[Patrick17430]

Since you're a boat owner now, your days of saving money are over. Things break all the time. Or fall off, over, snap, bend, stretch,rip, tear, crack, leak, rust, make strange noises and just plain quit. You better start getting used to replacing things now. You might as well go buy the handle today because your gonna be buying something else tomorrow. I guarantee you that much!

 

[Ron20324]

Butch, you can buy just the pump assembly. 100 bucks at west.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Hi guys. Just bought a Catalina 30 - my first boat - and I think replacing the head is going to be my first DIY boat project! Sounds like it's easy to do.

Replacing the toilet is fairly easy...replacing hoses isn't technically difficult, but can be VERY 'labor intensive."

A couple quick questions... it looks like these Jabsco toilets are cheap and it might be worth the extra money to get a Raritan PHII. Is that what you recommend?

Yes!! And if you go with the "conversion" it's not that much extra money: sbo.com PHII PHC LBA

And, is there any concern about the lag bolts lining up with the holes from the previous toilet or can I feel comfortable picking up another, knowing it will go right in where the old one was?

The mounting bolt holes will NOT line up. You'll be able to use one or two, but you'll have to drill and fill a couple. Those who've done it will tell you it's not hard to do.

should also ask... would this be the time to replace the lines to/from the toilet as well, if I'm unhooking them from the toilet, and is that just as easy as replacing the toilet?

Replace hoses only if they need replacing...and that's only if they stink or are so old that they've gotten hard and brittle. If they ain't broke, don't fix 'em. If they are, go with Trident 101 for 1" and 1.5" and either Shields or Trident #148 for smaller sizes (tank vent, toilet intake). The online store here has the best prices http://shop.sailboatowners.com/division.htm?div=37

Lastly, I was checking everything out in the boat, tried switching the Y valve that goes to the holding tank and thru-hull, from the toilet, and the handle broke. I don't think I care though, because it should always be going to the holding tank, right? Maybe there is a reason to fix this valve that I don't know about... They are roughly $60, so I'd rather save my money

To flush a toilet directly overboard or dump a tank legally, you'd have to be outside SF Bay at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline...so unless you plan to do some serious offshore blue water sailing, you don't need a y-valve. So if the y-valve is stuck in the direction that goes to the tank, I'd just leave it there unless you need to replace the hoses...in which case, I'd just run the toilet discharge directly to the tank and the tank discharge only to the deck pumpout. If you do plan to do some serious blue water cruising, replace the valve with a Whale...which will cost you about $100, but won't break if you maintain it.

 

[Schomer]

pk, I get enough grief from friends and family about owning a boat. What I could use is some advice from other boat owners about how to spend my money wisely on repairs. Trust me, I understand it takes money. Every single person who hears I have a boat reminds me of that.

So, my question remains... Is it worth the extra money to get the PH II? Will it fit the same holes as the existing toilet? And should I replace the lines at the same time?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Schomer]

Peggie, thanks so much for the feedback! Sounds like I need to figure out what to fill old holes with, if things don't line up. That conversion kit looks great. _Much_ cheaper. Thanks again!

 

[Stu Jackson]

So, my question remains... Is it worth the extra money to get the PH II? Will it fit the same holes as the existing toilet? And should I replace the lines at the same time?

I'd get some new friends if they give you grief about having a boat. Either that, or just continue to go out without them, they'll get the message.:dance:

Yes, Not for all of them, and maybe based on their age condition and your nose (sense of smell).

It';s your boat and your decisions to make. Hanging around on this website and reading various threads, you'll find some answers will disagree diametrically with others. Ask, get answers, but it's still your boat, your choice.

That's why sometimes I'll say "If it was my boat, here's what I'd do." But we can't make ya do it!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Sounds like I need to figure out what to fill old holes with, if things don't line up.

They won't line up, didn't they tell you that already. 2 outta 4 maybe 3 outta 4 simply will not.

If it was my boat, I'd either use Marine Tex, which comes in gray or white, or would try to arrange the new base that it'd cover most of the old holes and it simply wouldn't matter and they wouldn't need to be filled.

FYI, this is one of the most discussed issues when it comes to head replacement. I have no idea why. The reality is that it just is small potatoes when you look at it (pun intended!), because no one (except my very strange Uncle Herbie) ever looks at the base at marine heads.

 

[Head Master18695]

Regarding the mounting holes, you won't find two toilets that are the same. Not like at home, where you rip out an American Standard toilet and replace it with a Kohler, and everything lines up.

Marine toilets are basically specialty pumps. Depending on the type and size of pump being used, the mountings must be positioned where possible, to support the pump, and give integrity to the entire system, so that it doesn't break when you sit on it, especially if the boat is rocking. You won't even find the mounting bolt pattern the same from two different models from the same manufacturer, let alone from another manufacturer. It just doesn't happen.

What some will do, is to rip out the old head, then cover that portion of the deck with a nice piece of teak plywood, starboard, or something similar. Now you have a nice clean, flat surface to work from. Screw it to the deck - don't glass it, glue it or use 5200 to mount it - or you'll never be able to get it off, if you should ever need to.

Caulk the edges where the new mounting board meets the wall or bulkhead. If you used plywood, a nice piece of moulding at the front will hide the exposed laminations. Then positon the head, mark where the mounting bolts go and where the hoses will come through (if they come through from the bottom). Then mount the head, and you have a nice, professional-looking job.

 

[Schomer]

I'd get some new friends if they give you grief about having a boat. Either that, or just continue to go out without them, they'll get the message.

What's funny is that, now that I own the boat and have shared pictures and shown them where it is located (Marina Green, San Francisco), the story has changed and everyone is excited about it!

I think they were just making sure I knew what I was getting into. And really, how can you really know what you're getting into? It's an adventure I signed up for.

Thanks for the thoughts, Stu!

 

[Schomer]

They won't line up, didn't they tell you that already. 2 outta 4 maybe 3 outta 4 simply will not.

If it was my boat, I'd either use Marine Tex, which comes in gray or white, or would try to arrange the new base that it'd cover most of the old holes and it simply wouldn't matter and they wouldn't need to be filled.

I'll pick some of this up in advance, in case I need to use it. Thanks!

FYI, this is one of the most discussed issues when it comes to head replacement. I have no idea why. The reality is that it just is small potatoes when you look at it (pun intended!), because no one (except my very strange Uncle Herbie) ever looks at the base at marine heads.

If these other people are like me, they are starting from scratch with no knowledge of what you can and can't do to a boat. Drill holes in a boat? I have no idea if that destabilizes something in the process, or if I can fill the holes like they never happened in the first place, etc. It's probably just a general nervousness people have with something they need to dive in and try.

For me, I like to educate myself as best I can before I dive in. I'd also like to not have to make 5 trips back and forth between the boat and a shop to get it done. (Though, I'm sure that's going to happen anyway)

Thanks again for sharing your feedback on the subject, Stu.

 

[Schomer]

Head Master, great idea. I think I'm going to head up to investigate the situation this afternoon. Many thanks!

 

[Schomer]

I'm back to report some success!

I pulled the old toilet out, and (mostly) got the new one in. I say mostly because the main line going to the holding tank is so hard that it doesn't flex, and therefore, does not connect to the toilet when I get it moved all the way in place. So, temporarily, I have it hooked up, but the toilet is not mounted to the deck.

I bought a new tube that is much more flexible, and my next step is to get that cut and installed. I should be able to get the toilet into place and then bolted down at that point.

The PH II feels like a quality unit. I'm happy I spent the extra money, instead of replacing the cheap one with another cheap one.

Another success... I noticed the local West Marine had the toilet listed for $120 more than a quick Google search produced (via my iPhone, while standing in the store). I showed the manager the better price online and he said if I printed it out, he would match it. I walked around the corner to Kinko's, printed the page out, and went back to get the toilet for $120 less. I actually did the same thing for a battery charger and saved $100 on that. Nice.