Question: I have a Vagabond-47 with a 85hp Ford Lehman diesel with Hurth Gear box. While sailing previous boats I always put the shifter in reverse to prevent rotation of the shaft while sailing. But, on this boat putting it in reverse has no effect,, question?? now I am keeping it in neutral, and letting the shaft spin while sailing, is this ok??, it seems it is going to rotate reguardless of being in forward or reverse. Thanks S/V Anna Lynn
- Status
?????
Leaving the tranny in gear does not cause the prop shaft to stop??? Well if the engine is turning over in reverse then that is certainly a bad thing. Not much better that it is turning over in forward. Letting the prop "free wheel" should not damage anything but if you have that much drag you should consider a folding prop or some such such thing. The good news is if your batteries ever go dead you can start the engine by sailing in forward!!!!!!
Leaving the tranny in gear does not cause the prop shaft to stop??? Well if the engine is turning over in reverse then that is certainly a bad thing. Not much better that it is turning over in forward. Letting the prop "free wheel" should not damage anything but if you have that much drag you should consider a folding prop or some such such thing. The good news is if your batteries ever go dead you can start the engine by sailing in forward!!!!!!
hydraulic xmission
I also have the same problem . If your xmission is a hydraulic one the shaft will rotate no matter what position you leave it. Your choices are ,folding prop , or shaft lock ,or live with it . You will not damage anything if you let it rotate.Go to shaftlock .com for more info. Ed
I also have the same problem . If your xmission is a hydraulic one the shaft will rotate no matter what position you leave it. Your choices are ,folding prop , or shaft lock ,or live with it . You will not damage anything if you let it rotate.Go to shaftlock .com for more info. Ed
It is ONLY based on your transmission
The link is one for the Hurths onn C30 to C36s with M25 to M35 series engines.
The link is one for the Hurths onn C30 to C36s with M25 to M35 series engines.
A Professional Debate
Mr. Kurt, Both Stu, and Bill are fairly smart guys, but several years ago this was debated on a pro skipper/surveyors net and the consensus was: Use reverse if practicable, a turning shaft SLOWS the vessel, do not let the shaft 'freewheel ' whilst sailing! One good reason is it very definitely wears out your cutlass bearing much sooner than the life expectancy would have been. My nickles worth fer you swabs...;-)
Mr. Kurt, Both Stu, and Bill are fairly smart guys, but several years ago this was debated on a pro skipper/surveyors net and the consensus was: Use reverse if practicable, a turning shaft SLOWS the vessel, do not let the shaft 'freewheel ' whilst sailing! One good reason is it very definitely wears out your cutlass bearing much sooner than the life expectancy would have been. My nickles worth fer you swabs...;-)
I agree with you, Captain Ron
I sail with ours in reverse, because the spinning prop rotates the shaft (wow, who'da thunk that?!) and it just makes too much noise and vibration for us. The point being that MY transmission says I can do it. That's the idea: what the transmission MANUFACTURER says, not what I or anyone else might say or even contribute here . Boat speed: that's a WHOLE different discussion. I can live with draggin' my 3 bladed prop around with the transmission in reverse. Some can't live with it. Your boat, your transmission, your choice. Stu PS -- Whew - I'm so very happy I was able to spell the word transmission completely out all the time in this post, and avoid the dreaded "tranny" cr*p. That's almost as grating to me as "iron genny" -- it's a bloody engine. Thanks for listening, I had to work today - tomorrow, I sail!
I sail with ours in reverse, because the spinning prop rotates the shaft (wow, who'da thunk that?!) and it just makes too much noise and vibration for us. The point being that MY transmission says I can do it. That's the idea: what the transmission MANUFACTURER says, not what I or anyone else might say or even contribute here . Boat speed: that's a WHOLE different discussion. I can live with draggin' my 3 bladed prop around with the transmission in reverse. Some can't live with it. Your boat, your transmission, your choice. Stu PS -- Whew - I'm so very happy I was able to spell the word transmission completely out all the time in this post, and avoid the dreaded "tranny" cr*p. That's almost as grating to me as "iron genny" -- it's a bloody engine. Thanks for listening, I had to work today - tomorrow, I sail!
Neutral?
I know I'm out of you guy's league, but my outboard, in FWD, can freewheel (overrun) in the forward direction, and it makes lots of noise. In neutral, it freewheels really quietly. In reverse, it feels like i'm dragging a prop in the water? I definitly notice that having the fixed prop provides exta drag..thats why I presume the motor, in forward, has an overrun clutch?
I know I'm out of you guy's league, but my outboard, in FWD, can freewheel (overrun) in the forward direction, and it makes lots of noise. In neutral, it freewheels really quietly. In reverse, it feels like i'm dragging a prop in the water? I definitly notice that having the fixed prop provides exta drag..thats why I presume the motor, in forward, has an overrun clutch?
Stu's response
We've never met, but I know folks who know you. My name is NOT cap'n Ron...;-) stole that one from Kurt Russell a really funny film where he played an idiot skipper...ME! I do not want some sharpshooter suing me for any advice given here as I am a professional, well...at least I think so...lol. Both you and Bill Roosa have had some really positive and progressive posting here helping the mates. I have little time to help outon this site till I retire or get rid of a bunch of friends I've picked up sixty years along the way... And Stu, I like your politics.
We've never met, but I know folks who know you. My name is NOT cap'n Ron...;-) stole that one from Kurt Russell a really funny film where he played an idiot skipper...ME! I do not want some sharpshooter suing me for any advice given here as I am a professional, well...at least I think so...lol. Both you and Bill Roosa have had some really positive and progressive posting here helping the mates. I have little time to help outon this site till I retire or get rid of a bunch of friends I've picked up sixty years along the way... And Stu, I like your politics.
hydraulic vs physical transmission
You learn something new every day. By hydraulic do you mean there is a pump on the engine that drives a hydraulic motor attached to the prop shaft or do you mean torque converter like in a car? I heard of one of the former a long time ago but never seen one. Man you could make a dandy prop shaft generator out of a setup like that with just a few valves. Not to mention using another hydraulic motor to drive your AC genset, reefer compressor, AC compressor, emergency high capacity bilge pump..... And you get the freedom to place the engine where it can do the most good for ballast instead of in line with the prop shaft. Ahhhhh dang it, now I'm going to have to go check this out.
You learn something new every day. By hydraulic do you mean there is a pump on the engine that drives a hydraulic motor attached to the prop shaft or do you mean torque converter like in a car? I heard of one of the former a long time ago but never seen one. Man you could make a dandy prop shaft generator out of a setup like that with just a few valves. Not to mention using another hydraulic motor to drive your AC genset, reefer compressor, AC compressor, emergency high capacity bilge pump..... And you get the freedom to place the engine where it can do the most good for ballast instead of in line with the prop shaft. Ahhhhh dang it, now I'm going to have to go check this out.
Hurth trans
Hurth transmissions must be similar to Hydramatic designs in that proper transmission lubrication is dependent on the transmission running. The oil pump is driven by the input shaft off the engine and when the engine is not turning the shaft the transmission is not being lubricated. In a GM car with this set up (not all years had this design) if you towed the car with the drive wheels on the ground and the transmission in neutral chances were that by the time you got to where you were going the transmission bearings were burned up. The prop turning with the engine off means the output shaft and internal trans bearing are running dry – not a good thing. If a folding or feathering prop stops shaft rotation then locking the trans by setting it to Reverse seems unnecessary. However – with Hurth posting the cautionary note twice on a new trans mission I would say locking the trans in Reverse at engine shutdown is in order. Does the transmission require the input shaft turning to lubricate properly or is the transmission a full wet system that is permanently in an oil bath. With the Hurth HBW 50 and HBW 100 only taking .30 and .35 quarts of trans fluid respectively I would assume the system is dry disc and lubrication is not immersion, rather pump and scavenger type.
Hurth transmissions must be similar to Hydramatic designs in that proper transmission lubrication is dependent on the transmission running. The oil pump is driven by the input shaft off the engine and when the engine is not turning the shaft the transmission is not being lubricated. In a GM car with this set up (not all years had this design) if you towed the car with the drive wheels on the ground and the transmission in neutral chances were that by the time you got to where you were going the transmission bearings were burned up. The prop turning with the engine off means the output shaft and internal trans bearing are running dry – not a good thing. If a folding or feathering prop stops shaft rotation then locking the trans by setting it to Reverse seems unnecessary. However – with Hurth posting the cautionary note twice on a new trans mission I would say locking the trans in Reverse at engine shutdown is in order. Does the transmission require the input shaft turning to lubricate properly or is the transmission a full wet system that is permanently in an oil bath. With the Hurth HBW 50 and HBW 100 only taking .30 and .35 quarts of trans fluid respectively I would assume the system is dry disc and lubrication is not immersion, rather pump and scavenger type.
- Status