Does anyone have a 36 with a Doyle Utility Power Sail? We found out about this sail on this forum and then contacted Doyle. It sounds very good, however we have some questions about how it fits on a 36. Doyle explained that it attaches to the hole in the anchor roller where the pin goes through and then goes up the mast where the spinnacker halyard is. We already have a spinnaker halyard, but it was installed by the dealer and not at Hunter. The halyard does not go to the top of the mast, but it is maybe about a foot higher than where the foresail is attached. Extending the halyard down to the anchor roller would require the halyard to go under the bow rail. So our question is, does the sail start above the bow rail and then stay clear of the bow rail? This would put the Doyle UPS about a foot from the foresail in parralel to the mast at about the same angle. So, is our Halyard installed in the correct position on the mast? Has anyone with a 36 actually acquired one of these sails and used it. We will appreciate your comments.
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I have one.
I have one which I have used for 2 seasons now. I love it. In fact, it's so easy to use, I often single handle it. It has a wide range. The sail goes outside (in front) of the bowrail and in front of the jib. The anchor hole on mine is too small so I clip the sail to the pin that goes through the hole. Originally I started with one sheet from Doyle, but found that having two sheets was much easier to use.
I have one which I have used for 2 seasons now. I love it. In fact, it's so easy to use, I often single handle it. It has a wide range. The sail goes outside (in front) of the bowrail and in front of the jib. The anchor hole on mine is too small so I clip the sail to the pin that goes through the hole. Originally I started with one sheet from Doyle, but found that having two sheets was much easier to use.
Ditto for us!
John, we've had ours for 4 years now and it's great! works well in a wide range of wind angles and is easy to set and trim. we chose to use a sock instead of a furler, so we added a block on the bow roller for an adjustable guy, and use two sheets. Our Doyle assym uses the same setup, but the UPS works up to a close reach in a wide range of windspeeds and really makes a huge difference. Your halyard position is correct, the sail flies in front of the pulpit and the forestay. Doyle make ours out of a pentex/mylar laminate to maximize light air performance, but it's really strong-we've flown it in 20kt winds (downwind) with no problems-but lots of adrenalin!
John, we've had ours for 4 years now and it's great! works well in a wide range of wind angles and is easy to set and trim. we chose to use a sock instead of a furler, so we added a block on the bow roller for an adjustable guy, and use two sheets. Our Doyle assym uses the same setup, but the UPS works up to a close reach in a wide range of windspeeds and really makes a huge difference. Your halyard position is correct, the sail flies in front of the pulpit and the forestay. Doyle make ours out of a pentex/mylar laminate to maximize light air performance, but it's really strong-we've flown it in 20kt winds (downwind) with no problems-but lots of adrenalin!
Max Luff
I appreciate all of the comments and pictures. The question I still have is; it seems that there is slack in the luff, unlike the foresail luff which is very tight and ridgid? When the UPS sail is rolled up, is there a sag in the luff? On our boat, when I pulled the halyard to the anchor roller over the bow rail it touched the bow rail. Do your UPS sails touch the bow rail when rolled up? Does this interfere with anything when rolling it in and out and tacking?
I appreciate all of the comments and pictures. The question I still have is; it seems that there is slack in the luff, unlike the foresail luff which is very tight and ridgid? When the UPS sail is rolled up, is there a sag in the luff? On our boat, when I pulled the halyard to the anchor roller over the bow rail it touched the bow rail. Do your UPS sails touch the bow rail when rolled up? Does this interfere with anything when rolling it in and out and tacking?
Sag
You should tighten up on the halyard before rolling up the sail to eliminate the sag. Depending on your point of sail, you would adjust the tension on the halyard. The tighter into the wind-the tighter the luff. Running with the wind, you would let out a little slack to give the sail a little belly. I run my halyard and furling lines aft to the cockpit so that I can control everything from there. When furled, the sail doesn't touch the bow pulpit. The sail has a luff tape so you won't get that really tight furl like you would on a standard jib.
You should tighten up on the halyard before rolling up the sail to eliminate the sag. Depending on your point of sail, you would adjust the tension on the halyard. The tighter into the wind-the tighter the luff. Running with the wind, you would let out a little slack to give the sail a little belly. I run my halyard and furling lines aft to the cockpit so that I can control everything from there. When furled, the sail doesn't touch the bow pulpit. The sail has a luff tape so you won't get that really tight furl like you would on a standard jib.
Tacking
When coming about, you should furl in the sail-come through the wind and then unfurl on the other side. Sounds like a big deal but really isn't-just takes a few extra seconds since the sail is so light. you can usually do it by hand without using the winch. I put 2 sheets on the sail, otherwise you have to walk the single sheet around the front of the boat which defeats the whole purpose of having everything led aft.
When coming about, you should furl in the sail-come through the wind and then unfurl on the other side. Sounds like a big deal but really isn't-just takes a few extra seconds since the sail is so light. you can usually do it by hand without using the winch. I put 2 sheets on the sail, otherwise you have to walk the single sheet around the front of the boat which defeats the whole purpose of having everything led aft.
Jack and John, it sounds like your boats are
built a little differently. John's concern was that a straight line from his spinnaker halyard to the bow fitting you guys are talking about runs over and must be deflected by his bow pulpit and might interfere with its proper operation. Apparently yours does not. I jumped in here because I'm dealing with the decision of UPS vs Asym and my anchor fittings are not long enough (to project far enough out) to have a UPS luff that runs straight from the anchor roller to the top of the spinnaker exit without running INSIDE the pulpit. Still scratching my head on this one as I think I'd like to use a UPS but the geometry on my boat (a 1996 280) is apparently off. Sorry if I muddied the waters . . . just have similar questions/concerns.
built a little differently. John's concern was that a straight line from his spinnaker halyard to the bow fitting you guys are talking about runs over and must be deflected by his bow pulpit and might interfere with its proper operation. Apparently yours does not. I jumped in here because I'm dealing with the decision of UPS vs Asym and my anchor fittings are not long enough (to project far enough out) to have a UPS luff that runs straight from the anchor roller to the top of the spinnaker exit without running INSIDE the pulpit. Still scratching my head on this one as I think I'd like to use a UPS but the geometry on my boat (a 1996 280) is apparently off. Sorry if I muddied the waters . . . just have similar questions/concerns.
Right on point!
Clark - You have picked up on exactly what my concern is. My boat is a Hunter 36 (2004 Model) which I thought would be just like Jack's(I beleive a 2005 model). However, I don't know whether the Spinnaker fitting on the mast is in the same location. From the pictures, it appears to be in about the same location. Our boat came from the factory with UK sails and I beleive Jack's came with Doyle sails. In any event when I attached the snap shackle on the end of the spinnaker halyard to the anchor roller pin, the halyard was touching the bow rail. I could run it under the bow rail and it would be clear, but then it would seem that it would interfere with the operation of the UPS. Can it be that Jack's Halyard attaches to the mast higher and thus creates enough clearance or does his anchor roller just extend out more?
Clark - You have picked up on exactly what my concern is. My boat is a Hunter 36 (2004 Model) which I thought would be just like Jack's(I beleive a 2005 model). However, I don't know whether the Spinnaker fitting on the mast is in the same location. From the pictures, it appears to be in about the same location. Our boat came from the factory with UK sails and I beleive Jack's came with Doyle sails. In any event when I attached the snap shackle on the end of the spinnaker halyard to the anchor roller pin, the halyard was touching the bow rail. I could run it under the bow rail and it would be clear, but then it would seem that it would interfere with the operation of the UPS. Can it be that Jack's Halyard attaches to the mast higher and thus creates enough clearance or does his anchor roller just extend out more?
John, it looks like Chuck has run his to the
roller inside the pulpit and is using a sock and a short pennant; or did I misinterpret the picture??. I'll probably have to do the same if I choose the UPS :-( I suspect I have even less room than you guys to set up the UPS furler and *that* puts me working it from the bow and not the cockpit. Anyone ever seen the pulpit itself used as an attachment for these type sails? Would it be strong enough?
roller inside the pulpit and is using a sock and a short pennant; or did I misinterpret the picture??. I'll probably have to do the same if I choose the UPS :-( I suspect I have even less room than you guys to set up the UPS furler and *that* puts me working it from the bow and not the cockpit. Anyone ever seen the pulpit itself used as an attachment for these type sails? Would it be strong enough?
John
I'm pretty sure our boats are exactly the same. My boat came from the factory with UK's. I later upgraded to Doyle Carbon fiber sails--really cool-black. They're lighter and cut differently but wow what a difference! With the sail upgrade and the Gori 3 blade folding prop, she really flys! I've gained a full knot + and easily see 7 Knots on the speedo without the UPS.
I'm pretty sure our boats are exactly the same. My boat came from the factory with UK's. I later upgraded to Doyle Carbon fiber sails--really cool-black. They're lighter and cut differently but wow what a difference! With the sail upgrade and the Gori 3 blade folding prop, she really flys! I've gained a full knot + and easily see 7 Knots on the speedo without the UPS.
I know, Abe!
First, I thought long and hard about posting this picture, or cheating and photoshopping out the fenders! we've just left the dock-a flying start in a pursuit race- on the damariscotta river in Maine, where you can walk across the river on the lobster pots. my entire crew is on pot watch until we get into more open water-the fenders can wait. Jack's got it right for trim-when downwind, you let the luff of the sail fly a little by releasing halyard tension-or on my sail, by releasing the downhaul. I've rigged ours with a cockpit adjustable guy for tension control, led to a block on the forward end of the anchor roller, the picture is deceptive, the sail and halyard are forward of the pulpit. Upwind, with the guy tensioned and the sail sheeted in, the luff touches the pulpit-but it's fine. I don't think there's any difference on the bows of the 356/36-mine's a 2002 356, but there may be a difference in the masts. Hunter puts the halyard sheaves in the masts whether or not the boat is ordered with spinnaker gear, so the Hunter/dealer question shouldn't matter, However, I have inmast furling, and there may be mast differences for conventional furling. Clark, I shared your quandry-originally ordered an APC and used it heavily the first year we had the 356. Here in New England we have a lot of light air summer days, and I'm often shorthanded. The UPS is easier to set and handle, and covers a much broader wind range. but beam reach or deeper, and in lighter winds, the APC excels.
First, I thought long and hard about posting this picture, or cheating and photoshopping out the fenders! we've just left the dock-a flying start in a pursuit race- on the damariscotta river in Maine, where you can walk across the river on the lobster pots. my entire crew is on pot watch until we get into more open water-the fenders can wait. Jack's got it right for trim-when downwind, you let the luff of the sail fly a little by releasing halyard tension-or on my sail, by releasing the downhaul. I've rigged ours with a cockpit adjustable guy for tension control, led to a block on the forward end of the anchor roller, the picture is deceptive, the sail and halyard are forward of the pulpit. Upwind, with the guy tensioned and the sail sheeted in, the luff touches the pulpit-but it's fine. I don't think there's any difference on the bows of the 356/36-mine's a 2002 356, but there may be a difference in the masts. Hunter puts the halyard sheaves in the masts whether or not the boat is ordered with spinnaker gear, so the Hunter/dealer question shouldn't matter, However, I have inmast furling, and there may be mast differences for conventional furling. Clark, I shared your quandry-originally ordered an APC and used it heavily the first year we had the 356. Here in New England we have a lot of light air summer days, and I'm often shorthanded. The UPS is easier to set and handle, and covers a much broader wind range. but beam reach or deeper, and in lighter winds, the APC excels.
Clark
Clark, You can't tack or gybe like a traditional jib set up because the asym will get hung up on the jib forstay. You have to furl the UPS or snuff the APC, come about and then redeploy. It's not a big deal on the UPS. Remember these sails are for light air and generally long runs.
Clark, You can't tack or gybe like a traditional jib set up because the asym will get hung up on the jib forstay. You have to furl the UPS or snuff the APC, come about and then redeploy. It's not a big deal on the UPS. Remember these sails are for light air and generally long runs.
jack's covered it!
on a gybe, since we have 2 sheets, we usually do "barn door" and just let the sail swing around ahead of the forestay. if you have to tack, you must snuff/furl the sail or it'll foul the forestay. If the weather is heavier, or in close quarters, you can always snuff the sail to maintain control or clearance-it's easy and quick
on a gybe, since we have 2 sheets, we usually do "barn door" and just let the sail swing around ahead of the forestay. if you have to tack, you must snuff/furl the sail or it'll foul the forestay. If the weather is heavier, or in close quarters, you can always snuff the sail to maintain control or clearance-it's easy and quick
Maybe
Yes, you have been convincing on how wonderful the UPS is. However, I just wanted to know how it was going to fit on our 36. Our boat is about 50+ miles from our home so I cannot just run over that easy to take measurements. Last weekend when I took measurements was when I was concerned about the placement of the drum close to the anchor roller and whether or not the luff was to go over or under the bow pulpit. On our boat, it seemed to touch the top of the bow pulpit when going over but had clearance when going under. My concern was, if it goes under, would it work properly. From the picturs you sent, it appears that everyone has theirs attached over the pulpit, so hence my concern. Maybe no one really understands our concern. Yesterday I called Doyle and Doyle said that it should not matter if it touched and that after it was out the wind would keep it off and I should not have any trouble with bringing it in over the pulpit, but that if I wanted to put it under the pulpit that this would be O.K. too. If you have any more comments, please come forward. Thanks!
Yes, you have been convincing on how wonderful the UPS is. However, I just wanted to know how it was going to fit on our 36. Our boat is about 50+ miles from our home so I cannot just run over that easy to take measurements. Last weekend when I took measurements was when I was concerned about the placement of the drum close to the anchor roller and whether or not the luff was to go over or under the bow pulpit. On our boat, it seemed to touch the top of the bow pulpit when going over but had clearance when going under. My concern was, if it goes under, would it work properly. From the picturs you sent, it appears that everyone has theirs attached over the pulpit, so hence my concern. Maybe no one really understands our concern. Yesterday I called Doyle and Doyle said that it should not matter if it touched and that after it was out the wind would keep it off and I should not have any trouble with bringing it in over the pulpit, but that if I wanted to put it under the pulpit that this would be O.K. too. If you have any more comments, please come forward. Thanks!
Doyle is right, John.
Chaffe will not be a concern once the sail draws because you won't be able to get enough halyard tension to keep it close to the pulpit. Indeed, many of us use tack straps when reaching to keep the tack as close to centerline as possible. The bottom line is this: if you expect to do a lot of reaching in light air on a particular day, lead the tack line inside the pulpit. If you expect heavier wind or deeper running, lead the tack line outside the pulpit. It's a fairly minor adjustment; the only time you'll have problems is in heavy air if the tack line is led inside the pulpit and you're not using a tack strap. At that point, not only will you have chaffing problems, but throwing in a gybe could rip out your running lights. Otherwise, no worries.
Chaffe will not be a concern once the sail draws because you won't be able to get enough halyard tension to keep it close to the pulpit. Indeed, many of us use tack straps when reaching to keep the tack as close to centerline as possible. The bottom line is this: if you expect to do a lot of reaching in light air on a particular day, lead the tack line inside the pulpit. If you expect heavier wind or deeper running, lead the tack line outside the pulpit. It's a fairly minor adjustment; the only time you'll have problems is in heavy air if the tack line is led inside the pulpit and you're not using a tack strap. At that point, not only will you have chaffing problems, but throwing in a gybe could rip out your running lights. Otherwise, no worries.
Overpowering the Hunter B&R Rigging
I have been considering adding an APC to a Hunter 356 for light air downwind sailing, but the Hunter dealer and several sailing friends recommended against it because of concern about the load it would put on the B&R rig without a backstay. I was told by a friend that he saw a larger Hunter de-masted flying a spinnaker in moderate wind. Do you guys have any concern about the B&R rig with the APC's or UPS? Bob R
I have been considering adding an APC to a Hunter 356 for light air downwind sailing, but the Hunter dealer and several sailing friends recommended against it because of concern about the load it would put on the B&R rig without a backstay. I was told by a friend that he saw a larger Hunter de-masted flying a spinnaker in moderate wind. Do you guys have any concern about the B&R rig with the APC's or UPS? Bob R
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