I have a 2001 H340 and am wondering about the merits of investing in downwind sails such as a cruising chute or gennaker. Not necessarily full blown downwind such as a spinnaker as it would seem difficult to maintain as I single-hand a lot. But I guess this question begs another. Just was is the CW (conventional wisdom) regarding direct downwind sailing with the backstay-less B&R rig.????? I've gone downwind in 15kt on just the jib (standard factory sail) but what about catching more air in one of these chutes.???? Anyone out there have any opinions or experiences.????
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
B
Bruce Grant
Asymetrical
I have a 320 and bought an Asymetrical from the chandlery. I have used it single handed, the sock to douse it is the way to go. Seems to be the way to go and I have had no problems (or concerns) about DDW with the asymetrical, or for that matter in high winds going wing on wing. Regards. Bruce. Neon Moon
I have a 320 and bought an Asymetrical from the chandlery. I have used it single handed, the sock to douse it is the way to go. Seems to be the way to go and I have had no problems (or concerns) about DDW with the asymetrical, or for that matter in high winds going wing on wing. Regards. Bruce. Neon Moon
S
Steve
Agree with Bruce
I also have a 320, and bought the asymmetrical through HOW. I have used it with just my wife and I on board, and did OK (she steered, and I raised the sail). The autopilot could have done the same thing for single handed. In light air, it makes a BIG difference. As far as DDW, the B & R is supposed to be faster sailing off just a little. The added distance is made up in faster speed. If you aren't racing, who cares? I have run DDW, wing & wing. In races, it isn't the fastest point of sail, and the main cannot go full out because of the spreaders. I guess it all comes down to what you wnat to do, and how fast you ant to get there, put there aren't any problems to speak of. Steve
I also have a 320, and bought the asymmetrical through HOW. I have used it with just my wife and I on board, and did OK (she steered, and I raised the sail). The autopilot could have done the same thing for single handed. In light air, it makes a BIG difference. As far as DDW, the B & R is supposed to be faster sailing off just a little. The added distance is made up in faster speed. If you aren't racing, who cares? I have run DDW, wing & wing. In races, it isn't the fastest point of sail, and the main cannot go full out because of the spreaders. I guess it all comes down to what you wnat to do, and how fast you ant to get there, put there aren't any problems to speak of. Steve
D
Don Alexander
Barn Door
Frank, When running dead downwind with ANY rig the main has no proper airflow over it and only acts as a barn door. The jib/genoa will not set either so the drive from the sailplan is much reduced and a conventional spinnaker has to do all the work. Having the boom at a less than perpendicular angle to the centreline makes a very small difference to the sail area when viewed from dead astern so, in this respect, the B & R rig is hardly any worse than any other configuration - it is just an annoyance that one has chafe where the battens rub on the shrouds and this is a disincentive to running dead downwind. My sail wore through at the battens in 1996 but the damage has not increased and the sail is still okay apart from these small nicks. In lighter airs it pays handsomely in ANY boat to tack downwind and, of course, the assymetric sail is ideal in these circumstances. Proper flow is possible over the sails and a great increase in thrust results with a consequent increase in boatspeed. In heavy air, when the boat is already travelling at maximum hull speed, it is slower to tack downwind as there is no additional speed to compensate for the extra distance. Once again it is a matter of sail chafe and the likelihood of a chinese gybe is greater with the boom not fully out. In this case a conventional spinnaker is fastest - if you can handle it! Three broaches to the mile completely destroys any speed advantage gained! I know it doesn't feel right not to dead run but in practical terms it matters very little. Hope this helps.
Frank, When running dead downwind with ANY rig the main has no proper airflow over it and only acts as a barn door. The jib/genoa will not set either so the drive from the sailplan is much reduced and a conventional spinnaker has to do all the work. Having the boom at a less than perpendicular angle to the centreline makes a very small difference to the sail area when viewed from dead astern so, in this respect, the B & R rig is hardly any worse than any other configuration - it is just an annoyance that one has chafe where the battens rub on the shrouds and this is a disincentive to running dead downwind. My sail wore through at the battens in 1996 but the damage has not increased and the sail is still okay apart from these small nicks. In lighter airs it pays handsomely in ANY boat to tack downwind and, of course, the assymetric sail is ideal in these circumstances. Proper flow is possible over the sails and a great increase in thrust results with a consequent increase in boatspeed. In heavy air, when the boat is already travelling at maximum hull speed, it is slower to tack downwind as there is no additional speed to compensate for the extra distance. Once again it is a matter of sail chafe and the likelihood of a chinese gybe is greater with the boom not fully out. In this case a conventional spinnaker is fastest - if you can handle it! Three broaches to the mile completely destroys any speed advantage gained! I know it doesn't feel right not to dead run but in practical terms it matters very little. Hope this helps.
W
Wayne Fredrick
Downwind Speed
You will end up liking you asymetrical spinnaker more than any other sail in your arsenal. With the B & R rig you can really use the chute to a huge advantage and the boat will really fly. Make sure you buy it with a good chute scoop like the ATN model, and make sure the retrieving lines are in a separate pocket since this will help eliminate a wrap. I also use the ATN Tacker, it fits over the furled headsail and helps provide excellent sail shape and positioning of the bottom of the chute. Make sure you follow recommendations for the length of the sheets which will allow you to jibe if needed. Also, fly the chute with the main up since it really helps to blanket the chute when taking it down with the main. My wife and I fly our huge Gennaker from UK on our 450 without any problems, have even had it up in 16 knots of wind and do we fly. Also rig a downhaul which will allow you to adjust the tack when under way so you can use the sail for a wider variety of wind angles. Hope this helps, and if possible, see if you can go out the first time with someone with experience. Good luck!!
You will end up liking you asymetrical spinnaker more than any other sail in your arsenal. With the B & R rig you can really use the chute to a huge advantage and the boat will really fly. Make sure you buy it with a good chute scoop like the ATN model, and make sure the retrieving lines are in a separate pocket since this will help eliminate a wrap. I also use the ATN Tacker, it fits over the furled headsail and helps provide excellent sail shape and positioning of the bottom of the chute. Make sure you follow recommendations for the length of the sheets which will allow you to jibe if needed. Also, fly the chute with the main up since it really helps to blanket the chute when taking it down with the main. My wife and I fly our huge Gennaker from UK on our 450 without any problems, have even had it up in 16 knots of wind and do we fly. Also rig a downhaul which will allow you to adjust the tack when under way so you can use the sail for a wider variety of wind angles. Hope this helps, and if possible, see if you can go out the first time with someone with experience. Good luck!!
L
Les Blackwell
Wayne, do you use the tacker with your
asymetrical? Can you describe where you put the tack line? Does the asymetrical gybe the same way--out front? Thanks for your help on this. Les
asymetrical? Can you describe where you put the tack line? Does the asymetrical gybe the same way--out front? Thanks for your help on this. Les
D
Doug T.
Tacker
Those tacker sleeves are OK, but they don't slide up and down very well. I made my own "necklace" with 1' wooden beads from a craft store (painted with epoxy), a length of 1/8" V-12, and a couple of snap hooks. It moves up and down furled genoa really well. I also have a tack line (and shackle) that attaches to the necklace line and is run all the way aft so I can adjust the height as necessary. Cost: Beads: 2.69 Epoxy: ?? V-12, 3ft: 2.40 two SS snap hooks: 23.00 Shackle: 10.00 Tack line, 35', 6mm T-900 (way overkill): 45.00 Single swivel block for tack line: 14.00 I also used stanchion mounted fairleads for the tack line, but that's not really necessary. I'm not out to put ATN out of business, but they want waaaaay too much money for their stuff. The only thing I might do (eventually) is perhaps make the necklace out of double or triple strands of beads. That would distribute the load on the furled sail a little better.
Those tacker sleeves are OK, but they don't slide up and down very well. I made my own "necklace" with 1' wooden beads from a craft store (painted with epoxy), a length of 1/8" V-12, and a couple of snap hooks. It moves up and down furled genoa really well. I also have a tack line (and shackle) that attaches to the necklace line and is run all the way aft so I can adjust the height as necessary. Cost: Beads: 2.69 Epoxy: ?? V-12, 3ft: 2.40 two SS snap hooks: 23.00 Shackle: 10.00 Tack line, 35', 6mm T-900 (way overkill): 45.00 Single swivel block for tack line: 14.00 I also used stanchion mounted fairleads for the tack line, but that's not really necessary. I'm not out to put ATN out of business, but they want waaaaay too much money for their stuff. The only thing I might do (eventually) is perhaps make the necklace out of double or triple strands of beads. That would distribute the load on the furled sail a little better.
P
Paul
chutes for down wind cruising
we have had a cruising chute for 3 years on our hunter 35 and its great. and fun, it is a uk flasher A symetrical star cut, and has a ATN dowsing sleeve and it works great especially when your short of crew. ours is about 750-800 sq ft kinda big. they cost around $2300 for our boat. but we find it is better no going directly downwind, gibing is a trick we call it barn dooring. Heah cheers Paul
we have had a cruising chute for 3 years on our hunter 35 and its great. and fun, it is a uk flasher A symetrical star cut, and has a ATN dowsing sleeve and it works great especially when your short of crew. ours is about 750-800 sq ft kinda big. they cost around $2300 for our boat. but we find it is better no going directly downwind, gibing is a trick we call it barn dooring. Heah cheers Paul
- Status
- Not open for further replies.