Downwind sails.

[Diablito]

Good day Captains,
Please provide comments/recommendations for downwind sail for a Hunter 376.
The only headsail on my boat is the standard 110%, which is fine when the wind is on, or forward of the beam. It’s iffy on a broad reach and counter productive running, unless wing-on-wing and put on the pole.
I frequently (as in usually) single hand, which pretty much rules out a spinnaker, although I have a mast track mounted spinnaker pole (whisker, since there is no spinnaker).
Anyway, humor aside, is a gennaker (which will dictate a knowledgeable crew member) the most reasonable option?
FYI, our home port is Marina Del Rey, CA, meaning there are lots of opportunities to take advantage of a downwind sail when cruising.
Thank you.
Fair Winds,
Tim

 

[jssailem]

An Asymmetrical is a decent option. You can learn to fly it in light breezes as a single sailor, using a snuffer, or gybing it ahead of the forestay. Alternatively you might invest in a top down furler. Then you will be able to fly it much like your 110 genoa on a furler.

The sail is very light weight so you will not use it when the wind gets much above 10 knots or it will get blown out. On those light wind days when you are floating about, an asymmetrical will let you sail in beam to deep broad reaches and wonder why you did not make the investment sooner.

 

[Tally Ho]

As @jssailem said, an a-spin with a sock would be reasonable to set even when solo sailing. I don’t fly mine all that often, but I will set the a-spin when single-handed If I am down wind for a while.

Greg

 

[Diablito]

John and Greg, thank you.
A dock mate, who is a racer, just rigged an asymmetrical with top down furling. He added a retractable sprit as well. Looking at your boat, Greg, the bow suit is not a requirement. That’s very good news as my chain locker would make mounting a retractable sprit impossible.
An issue with the Hunter 376, and certainly other models, is the B&R rig. The mainsail is very large. It masks the headsail for points of sail much beyond a beam reach. The 30 degree swept back spreaders significantly limit how far out the boom can go, which necessitates tacking in a “deep” broad reach and running.
A major concern (and I guess it is best addressed by a Hunter owner) is the mainsail “masking” effect. (The sail’s roach is longer than a conventional sloop rig). Will the large main effectively block the wind to the degree that an asymmetric sail would not fill, unless the wind is blowing from the stern and the sail is set opposite of the main?
I do understand that an asymmetrical will have great value when an a “shallow” close reach, beam reach and “shallow” broad reach.
Hunters, with the B&R rig have been around for many years. I’m sure that, if a Hunter owner reads this, he or she will shrug their shoulders and ask the air around them, “Why hasn’t this guy figured this out?”, but I haven’t and really need some help.
Again, thanks.
Fair Winds and Following Seas
Tim

 

[jssailem]

The wind in an asymmetrical comes from the beam 90º to the aft beam 160º. The sail is flown out in front of the boat, not in behind the main. It is easier to get the sail out in front of the boat is you put it out on a sprit, bit it is not necessary.

You fly the asymmetrical instead of the jib. There is plenty of space (air) to fill the sail.

You will be flying the asymmetrical without connecting it to the forestay so the sail will be out in front of the forestay.

Arvil Gentry in discussing the jib and the main sails demonstrated that the main actually has air circulating around the sail. Some of the wind comes off the sail and fills the jib.

Circulation directions about thjib and mainsail

 

[Tally Ho]

I tack my A-spin off on my bow roller. No sprit needed.

You don’t have to use the main if you think it will blanket the head sail.

Neither an A-spin nor a B&R rig (due to the swept back spreaders) are great dead down wind.

But you can sail near DDW…

Greg

 

[danstanford]

As jssailem notes above, the apparent wind is roughly 90 degrees for wind speeds up to 12 or so. This may change boat for boat based on their speed potential but if you add the boat speed vector the 135 degree true wind becomes 90 degree apparent.

 

[shemandr]

You can use a whisker pole with the 110 jib to help its performance on a reach - kinda like a Hoyt boom.

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

As Jssailem and Tally-Ho said, an A-sym tacked on the bow (like Tally-Ho I tack mine to the bow roller) is easily flown ahead of the head-stay. You're not going to sail DDW with the A-sym, but gybing with the A-sym in front of the furled headsail is not hard to do. Full main should not be a peoblem when on a beam reach (See pix). If the wind moves aft and the angle is such that the main partially blocks the wind from reaching the A-sym, I have had success minimizing that by taking a reef. FYI, my A-sym has a sock and I sail solo most of the time.

 

[Diablito]

You all are amazing!
Thank you, so much, for your comments and for so quickly sharing your knowledge.
John, Greg and Dan. Thanks for the rigging detail provided regarding roller connection vs a sprit. The wind angles and explanation about the sail being “in front” of the boat, avoiding the masking effect of the main, is invaluable. Looks like this can be done.
Andrew, wing-on-wing, with the jib, a pole and preventer has been my DDW solution since installing a track, car, pole clamp, rigging and pole a few years ago. It works very well, considering the limiting factor of the swept spreaders.
Once again, thank you.
Tim

 

[sail sfbay]

..........A dock mate, who is a racer, just rigged an asymmetrical with top down furling.......

A top down furler with a continuous line to the cockpit will allow you unfurl and furl an asymmetrical spinnaker from the cockpit, which is what used on my Hunter 386. Unfurl from the cockpit on a broad reach and before you jib furler it back in, jib then unfurl and continue sailing on a broad reach. Since the 376 is a fractional rig you will not likely need a bow sprit if you attach the furler to the bow roller, which is what I did on the 386.

 

[Diablito]

Good day Claude and thank you.
Your post arrived while I was replying to the other captains.
I like the reef idea. Simple enough to accomplish with all lines in the cockpit.
What are your thoughts, sock vs top down furling? On the bow for the sock or sheets for top down?
Fair winds.
Tim

 

[Diablito]

Thank you Sail SF Bay.
The top down furler seems to be the simplest handling approach.
Cheers.
Tim

 

[jssailem]

What are your thoughts, sock vs top down furling?

It is only money....
A sail and sock combo will be one cost.
The Sail and a top down furler will be double that cost.
He ability to sail in light air... priceless.

 

[Hayden Watson]

For stable running DDW with my A-symm I have poled it out wing-on-wing with the whisker pole. It is not allowed in racing but for cruising on a light day it is nice. In races, I rig the pole to the tack and fly it like a symmetrical spinnaker with the pole back to project the sail out beyond the main to get much deeper than can be done when tacked to the stem.

 

[Diablito]

Thank you for all of your support Claude.
Yes, I get the “it’s only money” part. Still, I have to factor in input by the 1st Mate. But I do like the top down furler!

 

[Hayden Watson]

Thank you for all of your support Claude.
Yes, I get the “it’s only money” part. Still, I have to factor in input by the 1st Mate. But I do like the top down furler!

I thought about converting to a top down furler but was told that i need at the very least 6" of separation between the furler torsion line and the headsail furler foil and that 9" or more would be much better. I can only get about 3" with the sail on the anchor roller on my tall/rig bow sprit so that means that I would also need to get an extending bow sprit which would about double the cost of the setup.

 

[jssailem]

I have an old bow roller that could get you the additional 3"s you need...

Think of it as viagra for a sail boat.


Priceless.

 

[chuckwayne]

I tack my A-spin off on my bow roller. No sprit needed.

You don’t have to use the main if you think it will blanket the head sail.

Neither an A-spin nor a B&R rig (due to the swept back spreaders) are great dead down wind.

But you can sail near DDW…

Greg

We often fly just the chute and leave the main furled - very stable, you can run DDW with no problems and we usually don't lose any performance (main about 400 sq. ft., chute 1300 sq ft). great for heading downeast because we're just running with the prevailing wind

 

[Diablito]

I just love this forum!
you are all a wealth of information.