Double Anchor Rollers for an S....

[Sumner]

John Asked to see some pictures of the bow rollers that I'm in the process of finishing. Here are 4 and I'll post some more when this is finished and I have time. I should finish up on it tomorrow.

What do you think? If the boat starts to go down these will help float it . Actually they were the prototype and didn't take long to make and I thought I could transform them into the real thing in a day or so. Wrong, it has taken a lot longer than that, about a week.

Here they are on the boat a few hours ago and I was making the bracket that ties them together in front of the forestay. It gives them sideways stability and some additional support out front as it lays on the nose of the bow with protective rubber sleeves.

The two sides are not the same and are made specifically for the 25 lb. Manson Supreme which will be on the starboard side and for the 22 lb. claw that will sit on the port side. The double rollers on each are positioned for each respective anchor along with their lengths. I tried to make them so that the anchors look to be side by side.

The left two arrows point to posts that the anchor rode will go around at a slight angle to get to the side cleats on each side of the boat. There is also a center cleat. There will be two short lines with carabiner hooks off of it and those will snap onto the chain to hold the anchors back on the rollers. I curved the ends of the roller supports so that the line could wrap around them instead of the posts if desired.

The center arrow points to a quick release for an inner stay. I raised the forestay up the mast some that the new roller furler is on and left the old forestay where it was up on the mast and will secure the bottom out of the way, but will be able to hook it to the quick release if needed to run our old jib or genoa or a storm sail.

The bottom arrow points to a lever that I can position on the Johnson Lever on the new forestay and then tension the inner forestay down to the quick release and pin it there. It should take very little time to hook up the inner forestay if needed. I read about running two sails (like jibs) off the front of the boat while running and not using the main. I'd like to try that with our old jib on the inner forestay off one side and the genoa on the furler off the other.

The right arrow points to the bracket that sits on the very front of the bow that I made today and explained above.

Another picture from the other side.

I can't believe how easy it is to pull the anchor up with these rollers. Since we anchor almost every night this is going to be a big help now and in the future.

If anyone is interested the total weight of what is in the picture above is about 14 lbs.. I didn't weigh what the two ABS tubes weighed that I took off,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[nemosuit]

Hey-Heeeey!! NICE, guy!

 

[Robspan]

That's a beautiful piece of work, Sum. Where on the boat will you be when raising and lowering the anchor(s)?

 

[Sumner]

That's a beautiful piece of work, Sum. Where on the boat will you be when raising and lowering the anchor(s)?

Thanks, I'll be on the bow where that center cleat is. Normally I had to lift the anchors out of the tubes and lower them over the side and then the chain and line drug on the boat going down and up. Then I had to stand up and reach over and pull the anchor up. We have been using the 22 lb. claw and it doesn't seem like much weight, but it and the chain was a pain to lift hanging over the side of the pulpit. I'm 66 and in good shape, but it is getting harder to do this stuff and the Manson is even heavier.

With the rollers you are inside the lifelines and at a much better angle. It is much easier bringing the line and chain up the rollers and the anchor also. Now the anchors will be lower and not up in the tubes also. At this point I can't see any drawbacks. I spent time on the fronts of the brackets so that the line won't chafe on them while the boat is swinging around.

I'm really going to like this,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[oreana123]

Thanks Sum for the pics. It is a serious situation when you sleep on the hook, only more serious is leaving the boat on the hook and staying ashore. Anything that helps make such anchoring possible is a useful thing.

You had to cut away the liner to get to the bottom of the bolts, no? Did you use any kind of backing plate? I installed a deck pipe and I feed my rode down the pipe into the area forward of the vee berth. With enough chain, it will get your anchor line out of the sun and protected from the UVee.

 

[Sumner]

...You had to cut away the liner to get to the bottom of the bolts, no? Did you use any kind of backing plate? I installed a deck pipe and I feed my rode down the pipe into the area forward of the vee berth. With enough chain, it will get your anchor line out of the sun and protected from the UVee.

Yep had to cut an access hatch at the front of the V-berth and I'll be installing backing plates (a couple separate ones) for the mounting bolts along with that center cleat. Had to pull the foam out from over the V-berth and that forward area. It will probably all go back in.

I'm debating about one/two anchor rode lockers. I'm out of time and still a lot to do before we can head south, so they might have to wait until later. We would then continue to use the rode bags that we used before with them stored next to the pulpit....

....... I also have a spot for a locker anchor at the foot of the V-berth since the V-berth is a lot longer now and our feet don't do all the way forward. We kept a 4 gallon water container in that area last trip. Also there is the area on the S above the foot of the V-berth that is large enough to hold at least one rode if you removed the foam from there, so there are 3 eligible areas for the rode.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[MrBill_FLL]

very nice work as always!

a few comments.
can you replace the center cleat with a larger metal one? (and put a cover on it for protecting your toes).

guessing that will be the anchor point for the rode, the side ones look like a tight turn radius...

Why take off the pvc? if you have a failure (weld break/bent arm), you have a alternative backup plan with the pvc.

in a serious storm the bow eye is the strongest and lowest.
if you were going to sit out big storm I'd tie off to that... much smoother ride and stronger. can you tie off both to that eye? those arms would need to support the boat in a rocking situation.. not sure how thick they are or how well supported.

-but you should really never get in that situation.

99% of the time, those roller arms will make your life better!

 

[Sumner]

very nice work as always!

a few comments.
can you replace the center cleat with a larger metal one? (and put a cover on it for protecting your toes).

guessing that will be the anchor point for the rode, the side ones look like a tight turn radius...

Why take off the pvc? if you have a failure (weld break/bent arm), you have a alternative backup plan with the pvc.

in a serious storm the bow eye is the strongest and lowest.
if you were going to sit out big storm I'd tie off to that... much smoother ride and stronger. can you tie off both to that eye? those arms would need to support the boat in a rocking situation.. not sure how thick they are or how well supported.

-but you should really never get in that situation.

99% of the time, those roller arms will make your life better!

Thanks Bill,

The roller brackets are supported by the cross-member ahead of the rollers that the anchors rest on (top two arrows). The cross-member has the "V" shaped rubber covered arms (bottom left arrow) that rest in the "V" at the bow. They both support the cross-member and also prevent any side to side movement. I also yesterday added the front support strap (bottom right arrow) that connects the cross member to the hull. I can hang with my full body weight from either roller. They are quite strong.

I am going to throw the anchor tubes and the hose clamps in one of the very back storage compartments under the aft berth if they fit there "just in case".

Normally I don't plan on using the center cleat except for holding the anchors back on the rollers with two lines with carabiner hooks that will snap onto the chain. I haven't had toe problems on the cleat.....yet .

The turn off the roller brackets around....

...those posts (two left arrows) and over to the aft end of the side cleats is actually less severe than it use to be from around the chocks back to the cleats.

I'll remember about tying off to the bow eye if needed, thanks.

I still have some welding to do on these. I partially burned my torch up welding at more amps than it is rated for and should have a new one and also a heavier duty one Monday or Tuesday. The big bottom plate really sucks up the heat and I need to try pre-heating it. I've made almost all of this from 5086 aluminum as it is the most corrosion resistant and is what they make aluminum boats from. I'm having a hard time making good looking welds with it using the recommended rod for it. Strength wise they are good, but not as pretty. I still can't make really nice looking aluminum welds period, but I've been happier with some of my other ones. The 5052, 3003 and 6061 that I've used before sure weld easier.

Well on to the next project....

Here is a teaser of the netting project Ruth is making now...

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[Cruiser1]

Hi Sumner,
By coincidence I have just been looking through all your mods earlier today - very impressed!! Great bow rollers.

I have just purchased a 1992 26S a few months ago here in Brisbane OZ and amazed to see there was no anchor hatch (locker?). Someone told me that is not uncommon for US made boats? Mind you that is about the only major problem issue I can see - otherwise very impressed with the 26S as a boat.

I feel pretty uneasy with this idea of having the anchor, chain and rode sitting up front on the deck in a box or bag if the weather gets rough. I gather you are happy to have your chain and rode sit in a bag tied to the pulpit?

Have you heard of anyone making a locker in the foredeck to house the anchor, chain and rode? It seems to me there would be sufficient room in that compartment, under the foredeck and above the front of the V-berth, that contains the flotation foam.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

not mine:
make sure it drains overboard...

I went w/ the simple route: so far so good...

 

[Sumner]

.........I feel pretty uneasy with this idea of having the anchor, chain and rode sitting up front on the deck in a box or bag if the weather gets rough. I gather you are happy to have your chain and rode sit in a bag tied to the pulpit?

Have you heard of anyone making a locker in the foredeck to house the anchor, chain and rode? ........

Hi, just the one Bill posted. I like that and might do it at some point, but I started too much now and am finally just finishing so we can get on the road soon. We have had no problems with the rode being in the bag tied to the pulpit and if you have read any of the trip reports it has worked fine. Usually when the weather is really bad we are trying to sit it out and most of the rode is over the side in the water.

One thing that will help is that the Johnson lever and roller furler has raised the bottom of the sail about 12-14 inches higher, so now it should clear the bags fine. Before it would drag on them a little in some circumstances.

I feel I have the fronts of the bow.....

....rollers radiused enough that the rode will not wear on them while swinging on anchor and had....

....really reinforced the front of the bow rollers to the point I think you could lift the boat with them, but being the worrying kind I wanted an alternative. The chocks had worked well for us, but were removed for the bow rollers. Last week I took a few hours and put them back on the sides ......

....of the bow rollers. The lines still can run to the cleats between.....

.....the side of the bow rollers and the pulpit stanchion.

Here are a couple pictures showing how the anchors are held in place when they are in the rollers underway.

I....

...made a pin for the Bruce not so much to hold it, but to keep the shank down flatter for looks, but the pin is a backup.

I put a page up showing this mod if you didn't see it.....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-18.html

For us our anchors and rodes and shorelines are the most important gear on the boat and we have spent a fair amount of money on them and moved up to the range recommended for boats longer than our Mac. If you spend much time on anchor sooner or later you will be very glad you have good stuff .

Good luck with your boat purchase, we love our S,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[timebandit]

I am thinking of adding one of these snubbers to my anchor gear for next season.

It seems that sometimes when the tide has not made up it's mind and the boat is just floating to take the new set waves will snap the anchor line hard.

I am hoping this will soften things a bit.

Any comments for or aginst?

http://www0.shopping.com/Taylor-Made-Taylor-Made-Boat-Mooring-Snubber-3-8/info

 

[Cruiser1]

Bill & Sumner,
Thanks for your replies and photos - that helps me lots with what I am thinking through. Would be great to have the locker plus the dual roller arrangement - alas too many ideas and too little time!! Have to remember to leave plenty of time to use the boat!

My boat came with a 18lb CQR & a 13lb Danforth with 20' of 1/4" chain and 110' of rope on each. At first I thought the 18lb CRQ was way over the top for size, but now I see you carry a 23lb anchor Sumner I have had a rethink and decided to keep the 18lb CQR.

 

[Sumner]

.....My boat came with a 18lb CQR & a 13lb Danforth with 20' of 1/4" chain and 110' of rope on each. At first I thought the 18lb CRQ was way over the top for size, but now I see you carry a 23lb anchor Sumner I have had a rethink and decided to keep the 18lb CQR.

I can't find an 18 lb. CQR listed. They say the 15 lb. is good for boats up to 20 feet and the 20 lb. is good for 20-30 and is the one I for sure would buy or even go up a size from that if I was anchoring very much.

We have the 22 lb claw that has never failed and have had a Fortress FX-11 that we have carried, but haven't used and also carried the small Danforth that came with the boat. We worried about possibly loosing the claw on a trip and wanted a good or better backup and since have bought the 25 lb. Manson Supreme. We will now leave the Danforth back at the vehicle on trips. We have 'good' rodes for all of them with 30 feet of chain and 200 feet of line.

Personally if you anchor a lot and are not in situations where the water is always under 10 feet in depth I feel your 110 feet of rope and 20 feet of chain is pushing it a little.

On Lake Powell where you can't always anchor due to the bottom dropping off so suddenly you can need a lot of shore line. We now have 600 feet of line we can use there if needed. It is all good 3/8 inch 3 twist anchor line and here....

...we were using 400 feet on one line and all of the....

...line you see here in the boat saved our butts in over 50 mph winds we had to endure for a day in a very bad location....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/09-10-9-Powell-09.html

Get good stuff if you anchor out or tie to shore,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[Cruiser1]

Hi Sumner,

Thanks for your very useful comment on my anchor. I have since checked and it is actually a 20lb CQR - I could not see the writing the first time and must have made a mistake in weighing it. Your Fortress and Manson Supreme sound pretty impressive - both really nice anchors.

Your article on your Lake Powell experience would almost make the base for an exciting novel - if not a full-screen epic!!

Also clicked to have a look at the shelving you did on the port and starboard cockpit bulkhead - very nice work Sumner.

 

[Sumner]

... I have since checked and it is actually a 20lb CQR - I could not see the writing the first time and must have made a mistake in weighing it.......

I think the 20lb will be a good anchor for you. The CQR's get good reviews. An interesting thing about the advertised weights. Our Claw is suppose to be 22 lbs. and the Manson 25, but if you pick them up they seem like there is a lot bigger difference than 3 lb. I weighed them and the claw came in a little over 20 lb and the Manson was over 27 for about a 6 lb difference.

There are mixed emotions between Ruth and I about that trip. She didn't like seeing me get hurt and has some apprehension about Lake Powell. I told her I'd do it again even knowing the outcome. For sure it was a trip we will always remember and some great times and you can't beat the beauty of the place.

I also now think we are better prepared to not repeat the one bad experience there. My one piece of advice to myself and others is don't be downwind of anything that can move and hurt you. In my case the anchor chain and rode tied to the rock.

We have a number of friends from Australia that we have meet through land speed racing that have stayed with us and that we have meet on the salt flats. We hope to get over there in a year or so, but without the Mac :cry:.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[Cruiser1]

Hi Sumner,

Thanks for the tick on my CQR - yes I agree the stamped weights can vary from the actual I think. I will certainly look into carrying some more chain I think - always like to know that the anchor shank is sitting pretty flat when the going gets tough.

I can understand the mixed emotions you and Ruth have about Lake Powell, but I am sure that stark beauty is something else.

Re Bonneville I have noticed your other passion. You have problaby seen the NZ movie The World's Fastest Indian, but if not here is the background - really good movie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Fastest_Indian

Hope you can make it over to Oz - lots of magic country to see over here Sumner and well worth the visit.

Cheers
Cruiser

 

[Sumner]

......Re Bonneville I have noticed your other passion. You have probably seen the NZ movie The World's Fastest Indian, but if not here is the background - really good movie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Fastest_Indian

Hope you can make it over to Oz - lots of magic country to see over here Sumner and well worth the visit.

Cheers
Cruiser

I have the movie and have lost track how many times I've watched it . Great movie and people who aren't racers really enjoy it.

The book .......

...... Legend of Speed: The Burt Munro Story.....

http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Speed-Burt-Munro-Story/dp/0143303104

...is a good book and the movie was good about showing who and what Burt was all about.

Yep we look forward to making it over there ,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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