dodgers, hanks, and furlers..

roy

.
Feb 1, 2009
186
2 270 soldiers point
I am in the middle of a decision to either continue with my hanked sails or convert to a furler. And with all of the nuances involved, I really am right on the fence.

One thing I read from one person..
Because he has a dodger, he feels that he also needs the furler system because the dodger makes it harder to move from cockpit to foredeck.

Has anyone else found this to be true? I also plan on having a dodger at some point.

Thanks,
roy
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Apr 28, 2000
691
Hi Roy,

The handholds built into our new dodger make it much easier and more
secure to move forward from the cockpit and to get on and off the boat
in the marina than it was without the dodger.

photos at Refitting Lealea after sailing across the Pacific

Personally I don't care much for roller furling.

Just my 2 cents.

Malie ke kai,

Chuck Rose
SV Lealea, V1860
Honolulu (Friday Harbor, WA)
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
(Note to EU people: Dodger = Spray hood.)

Roy,
I have an original dodger. I like the look of them, but the frame is
very weak .... not meant to be grabbed for support.
I also have a furler (still on the fence on that one, too).
I find it less than easy to move forward around the dodger when I
need to.

I'm thinking of designing a sort of roll bar at the back of the
dodger for a handhold, and also have it double as a boom crutch.

It would have to fold down flat, with the dodger, for
that 'convertible' look when running downwind :)

The nicest dodger I've seen to date is on Howard and Sheila's
Vega, 'Shiva'. I understand he bought it in from England. It looks
good and feels very solid. Maybe Howard could tell us more about it.

If I had to choose between the two, the dodger would win hands down.
I can't imagine sailing without one, dodging those buckets of ice-
cold water that occasionally find their way over the bow.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
Oct 2, 2005
465
Hi Roy,
If I were to choose between the two, the dodger would come
first. Only after being on a boat with a dodger did I realize how
much the cold wind sapped my energy. When I bought the Tern she
already had a custom dodger and roller furling. The dodger extended
onto the side decks interfering with movement forward so I modified it
by bringing the "wings" into the cockpit. It is built of 1" stainless
tubing with a grab bar at the back and I added handholds froward.
They are vital. The canvass can be removed and the framework folded
flat in about 10 mins. or probably 30 mins if I had to do it in a
hurry. If I were to rebuild it I would make it a few inches shorter
to leave more room under the boom. There's a poor picture in the photo
section.
I chose to remove the roller furling and go back to hanked on
sails, even though I will have to use old stretched out originals for
awhile. For me it is a trust issue. I have heard stories. To be fair
though, it was very convenient, and someday, when I'm old, I may put
it back.
About 2 weeks ago we had some wind here and I spent the day on
the mooring, went out to put out an anchor. The office said we had
63 mph through the harbor. In the moorings 6 boats with roller
furling lost their head sails. Most split at the rolled up clew, the
wind getting under the laps of sail. One sail unrolled and, until the
sheets parted, the boat sailed on alternate tacks, nearly rail down,
charging at its neighbors. All sails were rags in a short time but
probably would have been ok if the boats had been left with a spare
halyard wrapped around the headsails, barber pole fashion.
Craig Tern v1519
 
Jul 6, 2007
106
Hi Roy,

Were are you going to sail? if is a long term and in
an out of the way place, then Hank on sails are they
way to go, if you are sailing just around your area
Furlers are more practical to use.

Another way to look at it could be, what kind of
sailing you are going to do? say the wind is going to
be a F6, would you care to go out or would you rather
be on the marina?

Personally I think is more gear to go wrong.

Good luck.

Roger
 
Jan 28, 2001
694
Just my 2 cents worth. We had one of the origional deathtrap dodgers and got rid of it. Present dodger was a gift from a friend with a canvas shop. It should be tall enough so that you can just look over it. Grab bars are great. We have a pocket sewn under the dodger big enough to hold a chart kit. Also nice woud be pockets for flashlights and rigging knives. Being able to zip an extension to the rear of the dodger would be nice for those sunny days when the heat is a bit too much. WaltTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comFrom: vegatern@...: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 04:04:58 +0000Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: dodgers, hanks, and furlers..

Hi Roy,If I were to choose between the two, the dodger would comefirst. Only after being on a boat with a dodger did I realize howmuch the cold wind sapped my energy. When I bought the Tern shealready had a custom dodger and roller furling. The dodger extendedonto the side decks interfering with movement forward so I modified itby bringing the "wings" into the cockpit. It is built of 1" stainlesstubing with a grab bar at the back and I added handholds froward. They are vital. The canvass can be removed and the framework foldedflat in about 10 mins. or probably 30 mins if I had to do it in ahurry. If I were to rebuild it I would make it a few inches shorterto leave more room under the boom. There's a poor picture in the photosection.I chose to remove the roller furling and go back to hanked onsails, even though I will have to use old stretched out originals forawhile. For me it is a trust issue. I have heard stories. To be fairthough, it was very convenient, and someday, when I'm old, I may putit back.About 2 weeks ago we had some wind here and I spent the day onthe mooring, went out to put out an anchor. The office said we had63 mph through the harbor. In the moorings 6 boats with rollerfurling lost their head sails. Most split at the rolled up clew, thewind getting under the laps of sail. One sail unrolled and, until thesheets parted, the boat sailed on alternate tacks, nearly rail down,charging at its neighbors. All sails were rags in a short time butprobably would have been ok if the boats had been left with a sparehalyard wrapped around the headsails, barber pole fashion. Craig Tern v1519 (Note to EU people: Dodger = Spray hood.) Roy, I have an original dodger. I like the look of them, but the frame is very weak .... not meant to be grabbed for support. I also have a furler (still on the fence on that one, too). I find it less than easy to move forward around the dodger when I need to. I'm thinking of designing a sort of roll bar at the back of the dodger for a handhold, and also have it double as a boom crutch. It would have to fold down flat, with the dodger, for that 'convertible' look when running downwind :) The nicest dodger I've seen to date is on Howard and Sheila's Vega, 'Shiva'. I understand he bought it in from England. It looks good and feels very solid. Maybe Howard could tell us more about it. If I had to choose between the two, the dodger would win hands down. I can't imagine sailing without one, dodging those buckets of ice- cold water that occasionally find their way over the bow. Peter #1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
Jul 24, 2002
149
I"m a bit surprised to find all the negative feelings
expressed about furlers. I for one have had only
good experiences with mine (but admittedly it's
fairly new, from Harken, about 3 years old).
Regardless of whether your dodger is in the way or not,
I think it is ALWAYS better if you can do things from your
cockpit while underway, especially if you are short handed.
A furler allows you to go out of a tricky harbor under
engine, then set your foresail in 2 minutes whenever you
want. Vice versa, if the wind picks up suddenly, you can
reduce the sail (works maybe not as well as a smaller sail, but
still beats having to fight with 2 sails in rough weather imho),
and you can furl it all the way up in a pinch without leaving
the tiller.
Finally, it is true that people can get TOO careless and get their
foresails ripped in a storm. However, you CAN take the sail down,
just as easily (or even more easily) as a hank-on, so when a
hurricane approaches (or I know I will be away for a while)
I don't have to expose the sail to any danger. But even furling it
good and tight, with several wraps of the sheets around, it is
pretty safe.
So to me it seems to be a typical "newbie vs. old salt" debate -
the "real sailors" sneer at anything not done according to
tradition while we less experienced "weekend sailors"
are happy for any aid and convenience we can get.

- Sebastian (V1060 Vega-Lyra)
 
Nov 8, 2001
1,818
I agree with you ref. Furlers. I would not be without my Rotostay Furling Genoa. Makes life so easy and Ive sailed in a few strongish winds.....

Cheers

Steve B
 
Oct 2, 2005
465
I know this is a small thing, but I don't see it as an "old salt
vs newbie" issue, but just as different ways facing potential
problems. Saying I don't trust furling gear is not the same as
claiming it will fail. It is an admission that I recognize, with my
limited mechanical ability, that I would probably be unable to repair
it, should it fail. If I can't repair it, alone, then I have to
seriously consider whether it should be on the boat. I'm not a "salt"
either. Just a bouy sailor, out around the bouys after work and
Sunday afternoons. Regardless of where I sail, I want to know, or at
least believe, that I will be able to handle situations which may
arise. For me, that means systems must be simple and redundant. I
like the short mast and external halyards though I know there are more
modern views. I'm not a Luddite. The boat has GPS, Autohelm, VHF,
depthfinder, with backups, or multiple backups, for each. And I am
looking forward to AIS. But the failure of all of these together
would not put the boat in immediate risk, which the failure of the
furler might. It's interesting, to me anyway, that although I also
sail almost exclusively singlehanded, I viewed the furler as a
greater potential problem than it would be if I had a crew. At least
with a crew there would be someone to handle the boat while I went
forward to the sail. In any case I enjoy the different opinions.
Craig ;-)
 
Oct 31, 2019
303
As was said, it is about preference. It is comparable to a discussion about
cars - manual or automatic? Neither is right or wrong, just different and
different folks do things differently. The only time a furler would put you
in a bad situation is if your sail is partially furled and it jams as you
try to unroll it to bring the sail down. A furler is nothing more than a
headfoil that turns and all racers use foils on their headsails - usually
double foils so they can do a faster sail swap. It is no big deal to take a
sail up or down with a foil - easier than hanks as one doesn't have to pull
the little piston out on each one. Most of the cruisers I've met when I was
out cruising use furlers, a few use hanked on sails but they are the
minority. I take my sails off regularly rather than leaving them on the
furler- better on the sail.

Modern, good furlers rarely have any problem with jamming - there isn't that
much to jam. In my thousands of ocean miles, on many different boats over
many decades, I've only had one problem with a furler and that was my fault
when the shackle screw backed out and hung up against the rigging aloft and
wouldn't unfurl so I could drop the headsail. This was in the middle of the
Pacific and the wind was picking up - but heading up took the pressure off
the sail and I was able to get it down with a little finessing. Not a big
deal and it never happened again as I then always secured the shackle
properly. Most of the high-end cruising sailboats come with furlers - I've
never seen a Hallberg-Rassy without one and we used to commission and work
on many of those boats and other cruisers. My HR even had a furling main -
that did worry me a bit, but I wouldn't have done without it.

I worry far more about the diesel giving me problems than the furler, as I
doubt I could fix that on my own - at least away from the dock. And I don't
think I could make it up the narrow river channel against the 3 kt current
to my moorage under sail. But I wouldn't do without an engine either. This
discussion reminds me of a story in an old book I was reading. At the turn
of the 20th century the old salts all said that a real sailor didn't need
one of those stinky engines on board.

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of vegatern
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:36 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: dodgers, hanks, and furlers..

I know this is a small thing, but I don't see it as an "old salt
vs newbie" issue, but just as different ways facing potential
problems. Saying I don't trust furling gear is not the same as
claiming it will fail. It is an admission that I recognize, with my
limited mechanical ability, that I would probably be unable to repair
it, should it fail. If I can't repair it, alone, then I have to
seriously consider whether it should be on the boat. I'm not a "salt"
either. Just a bouy sailor, out around the bouys after work and
Sunday afternoons. Regardless of where I sail, I want to know, or at
least believe, that I will be able to handle situations which may
arise. For me, that means systems must be simple and redundant. I
like the short mast and external halyards though I know there are more
modern views. I'm not a Luddite. The boat has GPS, Autohelm, VHF,
depthfinder, with backups, or multiple backups, for each. And I am
looking forward to AIS. But the failure of all of these together
would not put the boat in immediate risk, which the failure of the
furler might. It's interesting, to me anyway, that although I also
sail almost exclusively singlehanded, I viewed the furler as a
greater potential problem than it would be if I had a crew. At least
with a crew there would be someone to handle the boat while I went
forward to the sail. In any case I enjoy the different opinions.
Craig ;-)
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I read a couple years ago about a scientific survey one of the sail companies did, that showed something like a 40% increase in sailing time (vs. motoring time) in folks with a roller furler.Nicholas Walsh
Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial Street
Portland Maine 04101
Tel. 207/772-2191
fax 207/774-3940

This email was sent from the law firm of Nicholas H. Walsh P.A. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive this email, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.
 
May 30, 2006
1,075
What about a sail ready-bag? Do you think that would make it more convenient so you would sail more?

I was looking at the rendevous pictures on Chuck's website and in one of the pics, someone has a sail ready bag.

Wondering how they work and where you shop for something like this.

A sail ready bag is a sail bag that lives on the foredeck and the sail is all hanked on with the sheets attached.

roy


Nico Walsh nwalsh@... wrote:
I read a couple years ago about a scientific survey one of the sail companies did, that showed something like a 40% increase in sailing time (vs. motoring time) in folks with a roller furler.

Nicholas Walsh
Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial Street
Portland Maine 04101
Tel. 207/772-2191
fax 207/774-3940

This email was sent from the law firm of Nicholas H. Walsh P.A. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive this email, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
IMHO the problem with sailing short or single-handed with hanking
headsails is not raising or dropping the headsail but changing down when
the wind increases.

Having to heave-to and go to the foredeck to change down was the part I
liked least on my previous boat (a 21-footer).

John
V1447 Breakaway

art vandolay wrote:
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I agree ... when a reduction in sail is needed the foredeck is a wet
and narrow place to be. I love my furler, old as it is.
I'm also discovering the joys of sailing with only the jib. In 15
knots of wind the boat will still point fairly high and the helm is
nicely balanced.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I have a 120 jib with a fairly high cut clew. Being on a furler the
tack is also pretty high, so the foot just clears the bow railing.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I realize this message is 2 years old, but .....

I'm looking to replace my old CDI furler, and Sebastian mentions in the message below he has a Harken. The Harken MK IV Unit 0 is on my short list, and I wonder if I can get some Vega-related feedback on this unit?
Thanks!
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
May 30, 2006
1,075
Oh, I thought I had no real comment of value on this system...But, i refrained from purchasing a furler for a couple of years. I was concerned about the lower performance reported for furlers and expected a reduced ability to point.
This last season, I found that I could point just as well as with my hanked sails. Both observing with the wind vane and using my GPS with the boat trails plotted on the screen ( I did no fancy math.. hurts my brains). But in both cases, it appears the same as when i had hanked sails and i seem to be able to get slightly less than the 90 degrees.I did no experiments with partially furled sail. My plan is to change sails to smaller ones when necessary.Same time as I bought the furler, i got a Doyle 150 headsail from annapolis. Good price too. Which proves you can still get a good price from the local lofts. Of course he is just ordering overseas sails... but... He is responsible for them.Roy
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Hi Roy,
I'm impressed if you can tack through less than 90 degrees.

You say that you checked this with wind vane & with GPS so obviously
leeway is included.

My experience is typically about 100 degrees on GPS.

John
groundhog wrote: