documentation

G

giani28582

.
Mar 20, 2002
214
Hi
I know some of you folks have documenten your Vegas. I just received a rejection notice from the Coast Guard Doc. Offfice stating that my vessel does not exceed 5 tons.
I must have not measured right. I have 90 daye to appeal and would very much appreciate any help with the measurements I can get. Its not the weight that counts but the cubic volume. How do I figure that??
Thanks
Ganni
Puffin1554
 
F

frankdeba27

.
Oct 30, 2019
80
Gianni,
My Vega is documented. I have the paperwork I sent in with the measurements. I'll be in touch tomorrow with what I came up with.
Frank & Tena DeBaggis, Vega 2141, Carpe Diem
 
G

giani28582

.
Mar 20, 2002
214
Hi Frank and Tina,
Wonderfull Thank you!!!
Gianni

FDEBAGGIS@... wrote:
Gianni,
My Vega is documented. I have the paperwork I sent in with the measurements. I'll be in touch tomorrow with what I came up with.
Frank & Tena DeBaggis, Vega 2141, Carpe Diem
 
S

SVFlyAway

.
Oct 31, 2019
303
Gianni,

The CG has an interactive form on the web that allows you to plug in the
numbers and then it does a real time calculation for you.

I just did it and the Vega passes easily. Not knowing the numbers you used,
but having documented several boats, I can only guess that a measurement was
listed incorrectly. The most common mistake is to treat the Vega as a fin
keel boat and not a full displacement hull (which it is by definition). The
measurement for the latter is from the deck to the bottom of the keel (not
to the bottom of the hull or top of the keel - big difference and the Vega
won't pass if you do this).

The numbers I calculated for the Vega are:

Length 27" 3"
Beam 7' 10"
Depth 6" 7" (this is a little difficult to measure, but I used the drawing
from the Vega manual).I am sure some folks might argue some of these numbers
a bit, but they are close by my measurements. If you plug those numbers into
the CG formula in the table at the link below you get a gross tonnage of 9
and a net of 7 on the form.



_____

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of John Starace
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 2:46 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] documentation

Hi
I know some of you folks have documenten your Vegas. I just received a
rejection notice from the Coast Guard Doc. Offfice stating that my vessel
does not exceed 5 tons.
I must have not measured right. I have 90 daye to appeal and would very much
appreciate any help with the measurements I can get. Its not the weight that
counts but the cubic volume. How do I figure that??
Thanks
Ganni
Puffin1554
 
A

alan_critchlow

.
Nov 2, 2003
198
Hello, Registered tonnage relates to the volume of a ship/
see

Tonnage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I do not know how this may apply to a US boat. Canadian registered
ships can be commandeered by the crown (Canadian Gov) in special
circumstances and they seem to like to know what size the boat is. It
is not the weight of the boat. The same rules apply for ships as they
do for yachts in Canada.

Alan
 
E

emilnagy_45701

.
Nov 26, 2002
41
This may be a silly question.My Vega has a state
registration,what are the advantages of being
"documented"?
Emil.

__________________________________________________
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C

clinton_edmonds

.
Oct 30, 2019
67
My MOT Canada registration gives a groos tonnage of 5.94 and a net/register tonnage of 5.64.

Regards,

Clint
V3326

pjacobs55 prjacobs@... wrote:
If it's any help, I have a registered vessel (Canada) and it's 5.05
tons.
Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
J

jgbrisson2000

.
Jul 18, 2002
41
Hello Emil:

Documentation in the United States has the advantage that you do not
have to pay a registration fee every year. The first documentation
fee is high (about $200-300 as I recall and if it has not changed
since I registered my boat). Once registered, every November or
December, you will receive a form from the Coast Guard that you will
have to sign attesting to the fact that you have not changed your
boat's status. (It takes less than five minutes to do this.) You mail
this form back to the Federal government and a few weeks later your
receive the next year's registration.

If you neglect the first cost, your total yearly cost is the cost of
a first class stamp.

I think it is a deal if you plan on holding onto your boat for many years. John
 
E

emilnagy_45701

.
Nov 26, 2002
41
Hi John,
Thanks for the info.
Emil.__________________________________________________
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F

frankdeba27

.
Oct 30, 2019
80
Giani,
The form to fill out is, CG-5397. The numbers I arrived at are, Overall Length(L)= 27ft. 0 in. Overall Breadth (B)= 8 ft. 0 in. Overall Depth (D) 6 ft. 7 in. For the shape of the hull put an "x" in the box for "Sailboat integral keel". I ended up at something over five net tons. I began all this with a Google search of, "United States Coast Guard Vessel Documentation". You can print out all the forms. If you have any qestions about proof of ownership let me know and maybe I can help you. (The Coast guard wanted a bill of sail or a title. My problem was that Connecticut had kept my Bill of Sale when I first registered my boat in CT two years prior to documentation, and CT is not a title state. So for proof of ownership I sent them a copy of my CT registration.)
Also it is mostly but not entirely true that documented vessels do not require state registration. My hailing port is Boston, MA and MA does not require documented vessels to be registered, but Rhode Island and CT do require registration in addition to documentation. I keep my boat in CT where I rent a mooring. Even though I travel to NJ, NY, RI, and MA and do not keep my boat for a total of 60 days in CT, CT law goes so far as to say that if I rent a mooring in CT I have to have it registered in CT.
Thanks,
Frank & Tena DeBaggis, Vega 2141, Carpe Diem
 
S

SVFlyAway

.
Oct 31, 2019
303
All,

John, what state are you in? I might move there if the weather is decent. In
Washington state, where I live, one still pays the same yearly registration
fee to the state and must display the state sticker. If the sticker is not
displayed the marine police will issue a citation and my marina sends me a
notice also. A few years ago I stopped in San Diego on my way to the South
Pacific and they actually have state employees walking the docks and then
getting the lists of non-California registered boats from the harbor masters
to see if the 6 month, non-resident layover period is exceeded (if that is
so, they will then come after you to register and pay).

The two biggest benefits of documenting I can think of are: 1: In most
states I am aware of one doesn't have to display all the state numbers, just
the state yearly sticker - so the boat isn't covered with numbers. 2. If you
ever cruise to a foreign port, federal documentation is often the only
document that is recognized - I have friends who were really hassled for not
having CG documentation. Even in Mexico they wanted copies of the
documentation (I carried a bunch of them since all the Mexican Port Captains
wanted 5 copies of everything).
_____

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of JG Brisson
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 2:11 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] documentation

Hello Emil:

Documentation in the United States has the advantage that you do not
have to pay a registration fee every year. The first documentation
fee is high (about $200-300 as I recall and if it has not changed
since I registered my boat). Once registered, every November or
December, you will receive a form from the Coast Guard that you will
have to sign attesting to the fact that you have not changed your
boat's status. (It takes less than five minutes to do this.) You mail
this form back to the Federal government and a few weeks later your
receive the next year's registration.

If you neglect the first cost, your total yearly cost is the cost of
a first class stamp.

I think it is a deal if you plan on holding onto your boat for many years.

John
 
G

giani28582

.
Mar 20, 2002
214
Hi Frank
Thank you so much for your input. I would also like tio thank all other help on this problem from other Vega folks. I did send all the other required stuff to the CG so all I need to do is revise my CG 5397. for D I used the draft by mistake.
My last boat was a 8 tonner and was documented and I would like to go back to Bahamas and would feel better if Puffin was a US documented vessel.
All the best to you and Tena as well as all other Vega owners.
Gianni


FDEBAGGIS@... wrote:
Giani,
The form to fill out is, CG-5397. The numbers I arrived at are, Overall Length(L)= 27ft. 0 in. Overall Breadth (B)= 8 ft. 0 in. Overall Depth (D) 6 ft. 7 in. For the shape of the hull put an "x" in the box for "Sailboat integral keel". I ended up at something over five net tons. I began all this with a Google search of, "United States Coast Guard Vessel Documentation". You can print out all the forms. If you have any qestions about proof of ownership let me know and maybe I can help you. (The Coast guard wanted a bill of sail or a title. My problem was that Connecticut had kept my Bill of Sale when I first registered my boat in CT two years prior to documentation, and CT is not a title state. So for proof of ownership I sent them a copy of my CT registration.)
Also it is mostly but not entirely true that documented vessels do not require state registration. My hailing port is Boston, MA and MA does not require documented vessels to be registered, but Rhode Island and CT do require registration in addition to documentation. I keep my boat in CT where I rent a mooring. Even though I travel to NJ, NY, RI, and MA and do not keep my boat for a total of 60 days in CT, CT law goes so far as to say that if I rent a mooring in CT I have to have it registered in CT.
Thanks,
Frank & Tena DeBaggis, Vega 2141, Carpe Diem
 
P

pjacobs55

.
Oct 30, 2019
1,459
I documented Journeyman in 1999. I provided the Coast Guard with their form "Application for Simplified Measurement", an alternative system for smaller vessels. (Was form CG-5397.) I provided the following : LOA 27, beam 8, depth from coachroof to bottom of keel 8' 6". Did the job.Nicholas Walsh
Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial Street
Portland Maine 04101
Tel. 207/772-2191
fax 207/774-3940

This email was sent from the law firm of Nicholas H. Walsh P.A. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive this email, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.
 
G

groundhogyh

.
May 30, 2006
1,075
Don't know if this is a repeat, but i believe I read recently that being Coast Guard registerdd is better if you are traveling to other countries.

Something about the vessel is then considered to some degree territory of the United States (compared to state registered).

Roy
 
I

imbissfrank

.
Mar 28, 2011
261
Roy,
CG documented will make it an "American flagged" vessel. Probably similar to drivers licences, most if not all other countries have national D/L's . There is no American D/L, instead there are 50 separate state D/L's. Most foreign countries will recognize the state D/L as long as you are on vacation, but any longer period than that and you are out of luck. Nations sign reciprocity treaties/agreements with other sovereign nations and not individual states/provinces , etc. Having said that; my boat "Cin Cin" has been here in Europe for the past 6 years or so, and she is registered in North Carolina and I fly the US flag. On the stern I show Key West, Florida as home port. When questioned by any authorities I simply tell them that there is no national requirement to be documented. I have sailed her from Holland to Russia and only been questioned once (a small isolated island) in all this time.
Frank Gallardo Jr
groundhog groundhog1rb@... wrote:

Don't know if this is a repeat, but i believe I read recently that being Coast Guard registerdd is better if you are traveling to other countries.

Something about the vessel is then considered to some degree territory of the United States (compared to state registered).

Roy
 
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