I have purchased a new boat and will be moving it around the east coast in the summer only. I used to live in RI, so I will use that as a "home port" but plan on not having a permenate dock space anywhere. The boat goes into the H2O on about July 1 and is stored on land from October 1 to the next year. My last boat was docked in CT so it had a CT registration etc. Now, I am wondering if I should document this latest boat (426). I know it still needs to be registered in RI, but I am curious what the advantages/disadvantages might be in having it documented. Does this simply relive me of putting numbers on the bow - or are there specific other advantages to doing the documentation. I have heard it is done somtimes for financing reasons, this is not an issue, so looking for input on why I should/shouldn't go this route. Thanks in advance for all your help on this issue.
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David
Documentation
Vessel mortgage lenders generally require documentation in order to have a more clear title of ownership.
Vessel mortgage lenders generally require documentation in order to have a more clear title of ownership.
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Pete
Documentation
If your bank loan(if any) does not reguire you to document you should find out if R.I. will title you boat. CT. doen't issue boat titles. Boat title proves ownership and will make a resale smother(not a absolutly have to have)There are some advantage to documentation if you would be in foreign countries. From what you have said there is no real advantage to you to document that I know of. Would be interested to hear other opions!
If your bank loan(if any) does not reguire you to document you should find out if R.I. will title you boat. CT. doen't issue boat titles. Boat title proves ownership and will make a resale smother(not a absolutly have to have)There are some advantage to documentation if you would be in foreign countries. From what you have said there is no real advantage to you to document that I know of. Would be interested to hear other opions!
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Ed
Loan no issue
No, a loan is not an issue - so looking for any reson(s) for or against documentation. If it is a resale issue that is an issue, but for my purchase not one. Any other comments are welcomed and sought!!!!!
No, a loan is not an issue - so looking for any reson(s) for or against documentation. If it is a resale issue that is an issue, but for my purchase not one. Any other comments are welcomed and sought!!!!!
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Chuck Wayne
documentation
documentation is generally a good idea-it usually exempts you from state registration requirements, and state to state issues. it's very important if you plan to sail to a foreign country. it's also usually considerably less expensive than state registrations
documentation is generally a good idea-it usually exempts you from state registration requirements, and state to state issues. it's very important if you plan to sail to a foreign country. it's also usually considerably less expensive than state registrations
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Ken Palmer
International travel
Documentation is reported to help when traveling international, including Canada. My H33 was already documented when I purchased her, so I just continued with it by sending in the paperwork to the Coast Guard. They renew every year for free. Going through the documentation procedure for the first time isn't too bad. You can also pay hundreds of dollars more by going through BOAT US. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
Documentation is reported to help when traveling international, including Canada. My H33 was already documented when I purchased her, so I just continued with it by sending in the paperwork to the Coast Guard. They renew every year for free. Going through the documentation procedure for the first time isn't too bad. You can also pay hundreds of dollars more by going through BOAT US. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
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Brad Dennis
State Still Required
Documentation does not replace state registration. The main benefit is proof of title in intrastate and international trade. You didn't think the states would permit the Feds to cheat them out of their money, did you? Let alone the Feds not at least getting a slice of any money they managed to save a taxpayer paying to a state. Brad
Documentation does not replace state registration. The main benefit is proof of title in intrastate and international trade. You didn't think the states would permit the Feds to cheat them out of their money, did you? Let alone the Feds not at least getting a slice of any money they managed to save a taxpayer paying to a state. Brad
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Rick Webb
Many States do not Require Registration
If documented a number of states do not require vessel registration. Check with your marina and see what others are doing.
If documented a number of states do not require vessel registration. Check with your marina and see what others are doing.
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ken
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Bob Howie
Documentation v. State Registration
First, it's a state-by-state matter whether a state requires registration after documentation, so it varies. In Texas, Texas -- being the forward-thinking God's-Country state that it is -- doesn't require both; one or the other is just fine with us, ergo, my boat is not registered with the state. Typically, a state's fee is based on the total sales tax applicable to the cost of a boat. If you have a "friendly" relationship with the seller, let the state try to figure out how much you paid for it; it's their burden of proof to establish what you paid so the applicable tax can be levied. Once again, in Texas, if you tell the tax office you paid $1 in cash (which you at the very least MUST claim you paid) and "other valuable considerations," the State takes you at your word, charges you a minimum fee -- $15 in this case -- and issues you your registration. Documentation is about $410 -- what I paid through Boat/US and Judy Grovner at Boat/US really, really knows how to get the job done -- and is an amount typically less than the 8.25% sales tax levied by Texas on the total purchase price...$1,680 on a $20,000 boat. You have to have the boat's name and home port displayed prominently on your boat's exterior someplace -- typically the stern -- and you have to have the documentation number the USCG will give you also permanently attached to the hull and readily visible someplace...like, in my case, the inside lid of the cockpit lazarette...as well as a small, innocuous self-sticking sticker by my radio as a supplement. That's about it. Good luck.
First, it's a state-by-state matter whether a state requires registration after documentation, so it varies. In Texas, Texas -- being the forward-thinking God's-Country state that it is -- doesn't require both; one or the other is just fine with us, ergo, my boat is not registered with the state. Typically, a state's fee is based on the total sales tax applicable to the cost of a boat. If you have a "friendly" relationship with the seller, let the state try to figure out how much you paid for it; it's their burden of proof to establish what you paid so the applicable tax can be levied. Once again, in Texas, if you tell the tax office you paid $1 in cash (which you at the very least MUST claim you paid) and "other valuable considerations," the State takes you at your word, charges you a minimum fee -- $15 in this case -- and issues you your registration. Documentation is about $410 -- what I paid through Boat/US and Judy Grovner at Boat/US really, really knows how to get the job done -- and is an amount typically less than the 8.25% sales tax levied by Texas on the total purchase price...$1,680 on a $20,000 boat. You have to have the boat's name and home port displayed prominently on your boat's exterior someplace -- typically the stern -- and you have to have the documentation number the USCG will give you also permanently attached to the hull and readily visible someplace...like, in my case, the inside lid of the cockpit lazarette...as well as a small, innocuous self-sticking sticker by my radio as a supplement. That's about it. Good luck.
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Terry
OTHER SKIPPERS HAVE TOLD ME...
that documentation helps if, during international travel, you encounter a situation with a foreign government. A documented boat has the potential of bringing to you US Government assistance in the event a foreign government attempts to seize your vessel. Terry
that documentation helps if, during international travel, you encounter a situation with a foreign government. A documented boat has the potential of bringing to you US Government assistance in the event a foreign government attempts to seize your vessel. Terry
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Mickey Goodman
Documentation
It was my understanding the the US Coast Guard requires all boats 30 feet and longer to be documented.
It was my understanding the the US Coast Guard requires all boats 30 feet and longer to be documented.
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Terry
IMHO I DON'T THINK SO...
no one forced us to document our P42. It was our choice. The only requirement was to register it with the State of purchase so they could legally collect their syntax. Terry
no one forced us to document our P42. It was our choice. The only requirement was to register it with the State of purchase so they could legally collect their syntax. Terry
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Clyde
Documentation Requirements...
"...Vessels of five net tons or more used in fishing activities on navigable waters of the U.S. or in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), or used in coastwise trade must be documented unless the vessel is exempt from documentation. Coastwise trade is generally defined as the transportation of merchandise or passengers between points in the U.S. or the EEZ. In addition, towboats operating between points in the U.S. or the EEZ or between the EEZ and points in the U.S. and dredges operating in the U.S. or the EEZ must be documented..." "...Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more. For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage Page..." Only US fishing and commercial craft 5 net tons or more are required to be documented by the USCG if it is in navigable waters of the U.S. or in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). For pleasure craft 5 net tons or more, its an option. Clink on the link to go to the USCG FAQ on documentation. Normally if you only sail in US waters and don't cross into another country's territorial waters, you really don't need to document your boat. Fair Winds. Clyde
"...Vessels of five net tons or more used in fishing activities on navigable waters of the U.S. or in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), or used in coastwise trade must be documented unless the vessel is exempt from documentation. Coastwise trade is generally defined as the transportation of merchandise or passengers between points in the U.S. or the EEZ. In addition, towboats operating between points in the U.S. or the EEZ or between the EEZ and points in the U.S. and dredges operating in the U.S. or the EEZ must be documented..." "...Net tonnage is a measure of a vessel's volume. It should not be confused with the vessel's weight, which may also be expressed in tons. Most vessels more than 25 feet in length will measure five net tons or more. For information about how tonnage is determined, including a web-based interactive form that calculates tonnages, visit the U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Center's web site at the Marine Safety Center's Tonnage Page..." Only US fishing and commercial craft 5 net tons or more are required to be documented by the USCG if it is in navigable waters of the U.S. or in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). For pleasure craft 5 net tons or more, its an option. Clink on the link to go to the USCG FAQ on documentation. Normally if you only sail in US waters and don't cross into another country's territorial waters, you really don't need to document your boat. Fair Winds. Clyde
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Bob Bass
Documentation
While some states do not require registration of a documented boat, you may be subject to harrassment by some state agencies of states that require registraton. For example, Florida requires registration and I have heard of officials doing marina inspections and catching unknowing documented unregistered boat owners by surprise by asking "how long have you been in Florida?" I don't know the right answer if you are not registered with another state, but is has caused some boaters some real grief and serious money. You have a large cruising boat and the best plan would be to document it and register it with a state (with the lowest tax rate) to avoid future harrassment by the authorities. Also, by the way, if the boat is documented, the only agency that has a right to come aboard your boat for an inspection (without a warrant) is the USCG.
While some states do not require registration of a documented boat, you may be subject to harrassment by some state agencies of states that require registraton. For example, Florida requires registration and I have heard of officials doing marina inspections and catching unknowing documented unregistered boat owners by surprise by asking "how long have you been in Florida?" I don't know the right answer if you are not registered with another state, but is has caused some boaters some real grief and serious money. You have a large cruising boat and the best plan would be to document it and register it with a state (with the lowest tax rate) to avoid future harrassment by the authorities. Also, by the way, if the boat is documented, the only agency that has a right to come aboard your boat for an inspection (without a warrant) is the USCG.
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Rick Webb
What is the Advantage to Register Also?
If you are over the 60, 90 or however many days it is they are going to get you anyway. I just registered mine in Florida and it did not seem to be that much. They also do not require the numbers on the bow if documented just that you have the sticker. Mississippi did not reqire registration of documented vessels and the registration there was real cheap and good for two years.
If you are over the 60, 90 or however many days it is they are going to get you anyway. I just registered mine in Florida and it did not seem to be that much. They also do not require the numbers on the bow if documented just that you have the sticker. Mississippi did not reqire registration of documented vessels and the registration there was real cheap and good for two years.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Speaking of tonnage....
Tonnage has nothing to do with the weight of your boat. It is a measure of how much wine a vessel can carry. The word "tun" was originally a size of a cask used to ship wine from Spain & Portugal to England. In 1347 a tax of 3 shillings per tun was imposed and this was called "tonnage." A ship's size became known by the number of casks it could carry, and the word tonnage started being used to describe a ship's size. It was found that if you took the length x the breadth x the depth of the hold under the deck and divided by 100 it was close to the number of casks. That is where we get the "Measurement ton" of 100 cubic feet per ton. There are several kinds of tonnage: The first two are used by the tax collector. The next two are used by designers. The fifth and sixth are used by freight salesmen and canal operators and the last one is used by the USCG for documenting boats. Gross Tonnage - is the internal volume in cubic feet of the vessel minus certain spaces above the main or "tonnage" deck, like stacks and ventilators, which are called "exemptions" . Net Registered Tonnage - is obtained by deducting from the gross tonnage the volume of space that can't be used for paying cargo or passengers, that is to say the space occupied by the engines, the crew's quarter, the stores, etc. Displacement Tonnage - is the actual weight of the water "displaced" by the ship and is usually quoted in long tons of 2240 lbs. Light Displacement Tonnage - is the weight with nothing in it. Loaded Displacement Tonnage - is the fully loaded weight to the maximum and is on her summer draft in salt water. Deadweight Tonnage - is the difference between Light and Loaded Displacement Tonnage....the actual carrying capacity of the vessel. Panama & Suez Canal Tonnages - these are different from the internationally accepted definitions. There used to be a lot of variations between countries and the canal owners thought they were being conned, so they came up with their own definitions. Simplified Measurement System - The USCG decided that all this was way too much for bureaucrats to deal with for yachts so they came up with their own formula: Take the horizontal distance between the outboard ends of the boat not including rudders and bow sprits. Multiply that by the maximum beam outside to outside. Multiply that by the distance from the sheer line not including bulwarks or cap rails to the outside bottom of the hull not including the keel. Add the volume of the deck house/cabin top. Multiply by .5 for sailboats and .67 for power boats. Divide by 100. This will give you the "Gross Tonnage". Net tonnage is 90% of gross for sailboats and 80% for power boats. It should be obvious to anyone who's managed to get this far that your boat's "tonnage" no longer has anything to do with anything real; it only exists in the mind of some government bureaucrat. Btw...rummage was the manner in which the wine casks were stored in the hold of the ship and came to refer to the whole ship's cargo. After a voyage, any unclaimed and damaged cargo was stacked on the dock beside the boat and offered for sale - a rummage sale--another word of French maritime origin.
Tonnage has nothing to do with the weight of your boat. It is a measure of how much wine a vessel can carry. The word "tun" was originally a size of a cask used to ship wine from Spain & Portugal to England. In 1347 a tax of 3 shillings per tun was imposed and this was called "tonnage." A ship's size became known by the number of casks it could carry, and the word tonnage started being used to describe a ship's size. It was found that if you took the length x the breadth x the depth of the hold under the deck and divided by 100 it was close to the number of casks. That is where we get the "Measurement ton" of 100 cubic feet per ton. There are several kinds of tonnage: The first two are used by the tax collector. The next two are used by designers. The fifth and sixth are used by freight salesmen and canal operators and the last one is used by the USCG for documenting boats. Gross Tonnage - is the internal volume in cubic feet of the vessel minus certain spaces above the main or "tonnage" deck, like stacks and ventilators, which are called "exemptions" . Net Registered Tonnage - is obtained by deducting from the gross tonnage the volume of space that can't be used for paying cargo or passengers, that is to say the space occupied by the engines, the crew's quarter, the stores, etc. Displacement Tonnage - is the actual weight of the water "displaced" by the ship and is usually quoted in long tons of 2240 lbs. Light Displacement Tonnage - is the weight with nothing in it. Loaded Displacement Tonnage - is the fully loaded weight to the maximum and is on her summer draft in salt water. Deadweight Tonnage - is the difference between Light and Loaded Displacement Tonnage....the actual carrying capacity of the vessel. Panama & Suez Canal Tonnages - these are different from the internationally accepted definitions. There used to be a lot of variations between countries and the canal owners thought they were being conned, so they came up with their own definitions. Simplified Measurement System - The USCG decided that all this was way too much for bureaucrats to deal with for yachts so they came up with their own formula: Take the horizontal distance between the outboard ends of the boat not including rudders and bow sprits. Multiply that by the maximum beam outside to outside. Multiply that by the distance from the sheer line not including bulwarks or cap rails to the outside bottom of the hull not including the keel. Add the volume of the deck house/cabin top. Multiply by .5 for sailboats and .67 for power boats. Divide by 100. This will give you the "Gross Tonnage". Net tonnage is 90% of gross for sailboats and 80% for power boats. It should be obvious to anyone who's managed to get this far that your boat's "tonnage" no longer has anything to do with anything real; it only exists in the mind of some government bureaucrat. Btw...rummage was the manner in which the wine casks were stored in the hold of the ship and came to refer to the whole ship's cargo. After a voyage, any unclaimed and damaged cargo was stacked on the dock beside the boat and offered for sale - a rummage sale--another word of French maritime origin.
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Bob Howie
Warrants not necessary
A quick clarification...Documentation does not immunize the skipper of a USCG documented vessel from being boarded by state/federal law enforcement agencies if said law enforcement agencies are acting within confines of probable cause which does not require a warrant, ergo, similar in scope to a typical traffic stop when an obvious violation occurs. An example might be 6-8 people on deck of a sailboat that does not bear a registration number. The violation is the apparent lack of registration which can then legally provoke a determination as to whether sufficient life jackets are aboard for the 6-8 passengers. Granted, it might be a little weak on probably cause, but the skipper, if he resists, could find himself explaining the situation from jail. Granted, too, if the skipper provides the jackets and USCG documents, the supposition of probable cause evaporates and one cannot be legally boarded. However, according to USCG document entitled "General Information To Accompany Certificate of Documentation, Rev. 4/02," "State and local officials have the right to board documented vessels for law enforcement purposes." Of course, provided sufficient probable cause exists which may or may not require issuances of a warrant if the violation is in plain view. Otherwise, Bob Bass is correct; the only persons who can otherwise board a documented vessel without probable cause or warrants is either the USCG and, if on the high seas, the United States Navy...(mainly because they have BIGGER guns!!)
A quick clarification...Documentation does not immunize the skipper of a USCG documented vessel from being boarded by state/federal law enforcement agencies if said law enforcement agencies are acting within confines of probable cause which does not require a warrant, ergo, similar in scope to a typical traffic stop when an obvious violation occurs. An example might be 6-8 people on deck of a sailboat that does not bear a registration number. The violation is the apparent lack of registration which can then legally provoke a determination as to whether sufficient life jackets are aboard for the 6-8 passengers. Granted, it might be a little weak on probably cause, but the skipper, if he resists, could find himself explaining the situation from jail. Granted, too, if the skipper provides the jackets and USCG documents, the supposition of probable cause evaporates and one cannot be legally boarded. However, according to USCG document entitled "General Information To Accompany Certificate of Documentation, Rev. 4/02," "State and local officials have the right to board documented vessels for law enforcement purposes." Of course, provided sufficient probable cause exists which may or may not require issuances of a warrant if the violation is in plain view. Otherwise, Bob Bass is correct; the only persons who can otherwise board a documented vessel without probable cause or warrants is either the USCG and, if on the high seas, the United States Navy...(mainly because they have BIGGER guns!!)
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