Docking under sail

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May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Mates: I just got off the phone with a skipper who was having trouble docking under sail. Since he had the question possably there are other beginners who might have the same question. No matter how much you rely on your engine, one day you are going to have to sail into your slip so you may as well understand the correct way to do it. My first question was how is your slip positioned relative to the wind - is it upwind or downwind? His is downwind. My second question was what sail do you use to sail into your slip? He told me he uses the main - big problem!! I asked him to describe what happens when he sails in with the main and he told me he almost goes through the dock every time!! The reason he called me was he felt he was doing something wrong but did not know what it was. His problem was he was using the wrong sail. The correct sail selection is simple. You use the sail farthest from the wind. With a downwind slip it is the jib and with an upwind slip it is the main. The downwind wind approach is the trickiest and requires some practice. In other words, you have to release the jib some distance from the slip and just drift in. What that distance is depends on the boat and the wind speed. The upwind approach is pretty simple. As soon as you turn upwind the boat will want to slow down and if you really have to slow your progress, all you have to do is push the main way out and it will serve as a brake. My slip is an upwind slip and about 4 from the end of the dock. I really have to be careful because the wind is blowing across the narrow slipway and over my beam and I only have one shot at it. Once I turn upwind and into the slip the force of the wind slows me down but again I have to be very careful. The harder it is blowing the more cautious I have to be. The slipway on the other side of me is very wide and that would make sailing into the slip pretty easy. Most guys use a series of "S" turns to slow down and they gently glide into their slip. With my slipway, "S" turns are not possable. So the time to learn how to do this is not the first time you have to attempt it due to an engine malfunction. Pick a relatively calm day and try it a couple of times in your turning basin. When you feel comfortable in your ability to control the boat under sail, give your slip a try. It is fun to sail in and when done correctly in front of your dock nieghbors, they will think you are beyond cool and a great seaman!! When you step off your boat to tie off, don't look at them. Just act like you do this all the time!!
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,129
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Other option

Don Need to add "sideways windage" slip. Some docks don't have either up or down wind slips. Ours is a sideways, and I just use the jib. You can either let it fly to slow or furl it up. I agree that EVERYONE should practice doing this. I know there'll be a whole bunch of "they won't let me do it in my marina" & only try it in open water - or anchor out until you get the engine fixed responses, so save some breath, it's already been beaten to death here. When you need to do it, and you will, it's nice to know that you can. The most importan adjunct to this is to learn to use a midships springline to stop the boat. Stu
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Stu: Your right, I forgot about sideways. I guess the jib would be the best bet in that situation. Also, the springline would be very important in that situation. Stu, is also right that you may as well practice docking under sail because you WILLl need it someday. Putting that aside, it goes along with my other feeling that you bought a sail boat and you may as well learn EVERY aspect about sailing it - start, stopping, quick turns etc. Sail trim control is just a given. I guarantee it will build your sailing confidence once you master these skills. No matter what happens after that, you are in control.
 
T

Todd C. Ciehomski

One more option

Another option, depending on the severity of the wind, would be to douse the sails once you get momentum and "skeg" your way into the dock. This is particularly easy with a rudder: you just wiggle your tiller back and forth and the rudder acts as a propeller. You can achieve plenty of momentum to keep your steering and it takes the sails out of the picture. Great technique for relatively protected docks.
 
E

esail

No rule against the engine being on also??!

For the practice runs you can keep your engine on as an insurance against too much speed on the way in!
 
Jun 2, 2004
425
- - Sandusky Harbor Marina, Lake Erie
Long oar?

I read in another thread about using a long sweep oar to bring the boat back to the dock. Personally, I'm glad to use the engine! David Lady Lillie
 
F

Franklin

Need engine here

It's just about impossible to sail into your slip here in Kemah. About 20 marina's access to the bay is through a long, curvy and narrow channel. My marina is the closest one and it involves to left turns and a right turn to get into my slip. I could sail into it if there wasn't so much traffic and the wind wasn't coming from the south like it is 80% of the time. Needless to say, the tow companies make a killing out here with failed motors and grounded boats in shallow waters. I figure if I have engine failure, I'll try to dinghy to the slip, get what I need to fix it and return to the boat and fix it myself. I figure I can fix just about anything out there with the right tools and parts except a thrown rod.
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Don't Agree

I do not agree with Don's basic premise that sooner or later you are going to have to sail into your slip. Unless berthed in some out of the way spot with no supporting services, anyone with a non-functioning engine who tries to manoeuvre within the confines of a marina is a liability both to himself and to others. These days marinas are just not built with sailing in or out in mind. In extremis one could anchor off and request assistance or a tow, either from another sailor or from the marina/boatyard. Alternatively it might be possible to come alongside an outer pontoon and then either fix the engine or get assistance to berth properly. Either way your own time should not be a consideration and it is simply more inconvenience for you to behave in a safe manner rather to get home on time. Yes, I know all the sailing instructors just love to teach this, but little do they appreciate that they are encouraging their students to do some very unseamanlike things. There are plenty of other ways for folk to gain sailing skills without doing "circuits and bumps" in marinas. Surely caution is the watchword so that people do not damage their boats - or mine!! Sorry its my hobby horse. Don Alexander - RYA Cruising.
 
Dec 2, 1997
9,002
- - LIttle Rock
What's unseamanlike about close quarter sailing?

It's called "skill"--something fewer and fewer sailors seem to find it necessary--or even desirable--to acquire any more (even a simple clove hitch to secure a fender is too much to learn if a $15 fender clip can be used instead)...and there are plenty of ways to learn how to maneuver a boat under sail in close quarters outside a marina. But it does require a learning curve and then a lot of practice...which aren't as much fun as just going out and running around (provided the winds aren't above 10-15k). There isn't a sport that doesn't require learning some skills--not tennis, not skiing (water AND snow), not archery, baseball, or even riding a bicycle...not even cooking! Only boat owners think that they don't have learn anything beyond "turn the key and go" --once the favorite saying of sailors about stinkpotters, but which has come to apply to sailors too. (End of rant)
 
F

Franklin

Skill

Please, tell me how I'm going to learn to sail down a half mile, 30 yard wide channel with boats and the wind coming the othe way? That's what we have here and I'm sure there are others just the same. Some cases people will be able to, but others it's just not going to happen.
 
Jun 3, 2004
43
Hunter 27_89-94 New Orleans Municipal
Don't let it get you

Many older marinas were more compatible with sailing in and out. Most modern marinas are built to block as much wind as possible making it impractical to sail. In our marina ita against the rules. Yes we did it once when the outboard mount failed, but we had enough crew to finish but holding a blanket sized piece of jib up. Not only did we have to wait an hour in a lull, but we would have never made it down to the finger pier if it was further away than the keel's mass could push us. Its also quite rude to expect the power boats to dance us around us as we try to tack past each other in a narrow channel.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Donalex .... I totally disagree

Ask any general aviation pilot why he practices a 'dead stick landing' any time he 'can'. My disagreement with your statement is that one should be of (or aspire to) such skill level that he/she 'can' and with confidence maneuver his/her boat in almost any possible situation. To me this is not only docking under sail issue but should also include those 'venues' where one HAS to sail; and, without endangering others who might be called to the 'rescue'. Imagine yourself in a hazardous situation .... and the engine is not available to substitue for lack of skill and the lack of prior practice in elemental sailing skills. I guess I'm blowing off steam because I've been in the 'rescue service' for so long that I find that the majority of such rescues are because of someones 'ignorance' and purposeful abdication of careful and prior prepared self reliance .... that often endangers others. end of rant
 
F

Franklin

endangering others....

Let me get this straight....you think I should try to sail a boat down a 2 mile narrow channel, then turn to port 90 degrees against oncomming traffic and cross traffic of another narrow channel of about a half mile with a oncomming traffic and 80 % chance of being in irons, all single handed, is somehow safer then fixing the problem myself on the boat or calling for a profession tow? Now that seems quite odd to me. Let me set the record straight...I'm a cheap guy. I would never pay somebody to do something that I can do myself, but some things I just can't do by myself.
 
H

Herb Parsons

My Experience

My boat in Slidell, LA is not sailable yet, so I haven't had the opportunity, or the pleasure. However; I have with my O'Day 25 on Lake Grapevine in north Texas. I had the boat about 2 years before I finally decided to give "sailing in" a try. My boat is as far down the "finger" as one can get (it's the last slip if you're coming in, the first if you're going out). Prevailing winds are abeam coming up the finger, and I am usually heading into the wind when I turn into the slip, so this all makes it pretty easy. We always use a spring line, and even though sometimes I judge wrong, and come in a bit harder than I really want, the spring line always catches me. (Once, I didn't catch IT, but fortunately, was going slow enough that I grabbed a rail and was OK). We've gotten comfortable enough with it that we sail in probably 60% of the time. About a year and half ago, we decided to trailer to Corpus Christi, and sail down the coast to the Port Isabel, about 140 miles away. It was great, except the water impeller went out about 30 miles from our destination. We tried to get it fixed, but there was no one there to do the job. So, we packed up, and sailed south. Unfortunately, the delay put us about 5 hours behind schedule, which got us sailing into Port Isabel in the dark. In the dark, no motor, and into a marina where we'd never been. Do you want to know if we were happy that we had been practicing sailing into the slip?
 
W

Warren M.

Sailing into marina...

While I tend to agree that we all should at least be familiar with the theory, or even the practice (if that's possible), of how to sail our boats into a slip, I think a more important question a skipper with a dead engine needs to ask himself is: what is the safest and best way to deal with the situation? As others have indicated below, sailing into your slip is probably not the first, nor best, option one could follow. It's a litigious world out there....
 
Jun 21, 2004
129
- - Westbrook, CT
Docking under sail a reasonable skill to own

I would never sail into my slip, it just wouldn't be safe, as others have pointed out. HOWEVER, I think it's reasonable to sail up to a fuel dock when you're out of fuel or otherwise engine-less. Here in New England, there are many fuel docks that are alongside the main channel and are quite long (150 - 200 feet), such as the fuel docks at Mystic, Pt Judith Pond, or Newport. I think it would be reasonable to get yourself stopped at one of those with some help from the dock hands. You've got lots of room, you can talk to the fuel guys on the radio to ask for someone to take your spring, and when you've finished crashing into the dock you can get some more fuel.
 
P

Pops

All skills need to be practiced

I learned to sail in the sixties (yes I'm an old fart), on a city lake in Minneapolis. There were no outboards allowed. Every one used the city dingy to get to their boat and then sailed back to the dock, towing the dingy, through the mooring field. If it was a nice day and there were lots of people sailing we would often have to go to the back side of the dock. This would entail sailing the length of the lake side of the dock (about 100 ft), doing a 180 and coming back to an open spot on the finger between the dock and the shore, and then slide the boat into a slot the width of the boat. There were times one would have to wait for a slot to open up. This was done surrounded by other sailors sailing in and out of the dock at the same time. One learned boat control, under sail, or you couldn't go sailing. I was 13 and prided myself on my smooth dockings, as did most of us. It was required learning then and I think that people should see it as a requirement (at least a personal one) now. It's not just sailing into your slip, it's leaning to control your SAIL boat in all situations. Re-reading what I just wrote it all sounds kind like I'm a real sanctamonious (sp?) A**hole. I'm sorry that is not my intent, just my poor communication skills. I do think that boat control is important. My 2 cents.
 
B

Bob

Every chance I get

Just about every time I come in, and about half of these are after dark, I try to get the boat moving just fast enough to carry her momentum into the slip so I can step off and walk to the bow. Usually I leave the motor idling in neutral or chop it. I try hard not to need or use reverse, though on a nasty day it can be nice to have. It doesn't take too many repetitions before you develop a pretty good feel for the necessary speed. Then you can do the same thing using the foresail for power, having dropped the main previously. Of course, the wind has to co-operate, but if you are used to judging the boat's momentum it's not that much different. Easing in at night under sail with no one to watch is a special feeling, but make sure you get it down or furled plenty early. We don't have the right to put someone else's boat at needless risk.
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Oh Boy!

I thought I might be treading on a few corns with my previous posting. My point was:- Learn your boat skills by all means. Just don't do in in my marina please> Regards to all. Donalex
 
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