Usually we ignore the tides when sailing in the Gulf of Mexico. The tidal range is only a foot or so and the currents in the inlet aren't usually that strong. But we've seen the largest waves that we've ever seen around the mouths of inlets as the tide was falling. Large ones at Panama City and spectacular ones near Dauphin Island. We have sailed out against an incoming tide and have been pushed backwards when the wind dropped. Sailing for fun in a familiar area this isn't a problem. If the traffic is heavy we start the motor and get out of everyone's way. My question is " Do you usually watch the tides and schedule your sailing to take advantage of the tide" ?? A related question is "Do you wait outside in rough conditions for the tide to start to flood".
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Absolutely!
I sail a lot in San Francisco Bay. At the Golden Gate, tidal currents can run 6 knots. If you don't pay attention to them, you may go nowhere, or even backwards. The time lag in the tidal current from the tidal stage at the GG to that at my home port in Stockton is 7+ hours over the 70 mile distance inland to Stockton. Since the time of the flood from low water slack to high water slack tide is about 6 hours, if I start at low slack on SF Bay, I can carry the flood tide all the way home if I'm traveling at 5 knots thru the water, making it an 9-10 hour trip. Conversely, over Labor Day I delivered my boat to SF Bay from Stockton. The tides were adverse that weekend, albeit not really heavy. It took me two full 8+ hour days to get to SF Bay, motoring all the way at about 5 knots. North of SF, at Tomales Bay, you NEVER enter or leave the bay on an ebb tide. Tomales has a bar at the entrance with about 7ft of water at low tide. The prevailing wind blows across the entrance in the opposite direction of the flow of the ebb tide, and the seas will break at the entrance if there is any substantial wind blowing. Somewhere I have a picture of a boat I was cruising next to doing just that. The picture shows him climbing a breaking 8-footer at a 70 degree angle in his Cal 2-25. At Tomales, we time our arrival at the entrance to be in the morning, before the wind comes up in the afternoon, and at the end of a flood tide, when the water over the bar at the entrance is deepest.
I sail a lot in San Francisco Bay. At the Golden Gate, tidal currents can run 6 knots. If you don't pay attention to them, you may go nowhere, or even backwards. The time lag in the tidal current from the tidal stage at the GG to that at my home port in Stockton is 7+ hours over the 70 mile distance inland to Stockton. Since the time of the flood from low water slack to high water slack tide is about 6 hours, if I start at low slack on SF Bay, I can carry the flood tide all the way home if I'm traveling at 5 knots thru the water, making it an 9-10 hour trip. Conversely, over Labor Day I delivered my boat to SF Bay from Stockton. The tides were adverse that weekend, albeit not really heavy. It took me two full 8+ hour days to get to SF Bay, motoring all the way at about 5 knots. North of SF, at Tomales Bay, you NEVER enter or leave the bay on an ebb tide. Tomales has a bar at the entrance with about 7ft of water at low tide. The prevailing wind blows across the entrance in the opposite direction of the flow of the ebb tide, and the seas will break at the entrance if there is any substantial wind blowing. Somewhere I have a picture of a boat I was cruising next to doing just that. The picture shows him climbing a breaking 8-footer at a 70 degree angle in his Cal 2-25. At Tomales, we time our arrival at the entrance to be in the morning, before the wind comes up in the afternoon, and at the end of a flood tide, when the water over the bar at the entrance is deepest.
Don't leave home without them!
Sailing in the Pacific Northwest is extreemly dependant on tides. many average 3 knots. In Deception Pass they get up to 8 knots. All it takes is one wrongly timed passage where you either stand still,or go backwards & you'll be convinced to check the tides. Virtually all my outings are based on what the tides are doing. I have even witnessed the extreme tidal flows at Nakwakto Rapids in Canada, the fastest tidal current in North America. It get's up to 22 knots! yikes!
Sailing in the Pacific Northwest is extreemly dependant on tides. many average 3 knots. In Deception Pass they get up to 8 knots. All it takes is one wrongly timed passage where you either stand still,or go backwards & you'll be convinced to check the tides. Virtually all my outings are based on what the tides are doing. I have even witnessed the extreme tidal flows at Nakwakto Rapids in Canada, the fastest tidal current in North America. It get's up to 22 knots! yikes!
Tides
We have a shallow entrance to our little harbor so I always pay attention to the tides, and won't transit at the very lowest tides. When I just daysail, I usually ignore the tidal currents, which in my immediate area are not so strong; but when we head a little further away we pass through either Plum Gut or the Race, and the currents make all the difference. I always plan longer trips with Eldridge's in hand. For those not in the Northeast, Eldridge's is the bible of tides and tidal current charts. One of the things a lot of people don't focus on is that high and low tide times are nowhere near enough information. There is very great variation between high high and low high and high low and low low tide. I also use a freeware tool called wxtide32, which I got somewhere on the web and which provides a detailed graph of the tides. My new chartplotter also has the graphs available, but I normally plan when not on the boat.
We have a shallow entrance to our little harbor so I always pay attention to the tides, and won't transit at the very lowest tides. When I just daysail, I usually ignore the tidal currents, which in my immediate area are not so strong; but when we head a little further away we pass through either Plum Gut or the Race, and the currents make all the difference. I always plan longer trips with Eldridge's in hand. For those not in the Northeast, Eldridge's is the bible of tides and tidal current charts. One of the things a lot of people don't focus on is that high and low tide times are nowhere near enough information. There is very great variation between high high and low high and high low and low low tide. I also use a freeware tool called wxtide32, which I got somewhere on the web and which provides a detailed graph of the tides. My new chartplotter also has the graphs available, but I normally plan when not on the boat.
Always
Anything more than a day sail for us usually means leaving through the Race or Plum Gut to leave Long Island Sound. With currents that can exceed 6 knots it can make for a fast sail or a backwards one. Even going with the tidal flow can be a problem at full speed the lobster pots are pulled underwater and very hard to see. So we try for slack if possible.
Anything more than a day sail for us usually means leaving through the Race or Plum Gut to leave Long Island Sound. With currents that can exceed 6 knots it can make for a fast sail or a backwards one. Even going with the tidal flow can be a problem at full speed the lobster pots are pulled underwater and very hard to see. So we try for slack if possible.
Tides
I'm on the Gulf of Mexico 30 west of Mobile and the tides run 2 1/2 feet usually. You must have been here close to neap tide. I need a fairly high tide to get out.
I'm on the Gulf of Mexico 30 west of Mobile and the tides run 2 1/2 feet usually. You must have been here close to neap tide. I need a fairly high tide to get out.
Sailed From Pensacola to Mobile
The wind forcast was good so we left early from Pensacola. The wind was a little slow to arrive in the afternoon but when it did we were moving well. It was getting close to dark so I cut a little close by not going to the sea buoy. I figured that 30' of depth would be OK but there at the entrance to Mobile bay the waves were really standing up by the depth gauge they were 15'. I was really nervous and my wife realized why when she saw that the waves were breaking about 100 yards or so closer to shore. We got the anchor down in Navy Cove just as it was getting dark. Thankfully we didn't have to run the ship channel at night!!!! It wasn't very rough at all in the gulf maybe 4-6' waves and 15kts of wind all of the action started at the ship's channel entrance. Next time I go into Mobile bay I'll come in from the sea buoy. A friend says that there is deep water close to shore to the east of the ship's channel but I'm too chicken to try that route.
The wind forcast was good so we left early from Pensacola. The wind was a little slow to arrive in the afternoon but when it did we were moving well. It was getting close to dark so I cut a little close by not going to the sea buoy. I figured that 30' of depth would be OK but there at the entrance to Mobile bay the waves were really standing up by the depth gauge they were 15'. I was really nervous and my wife realized why when she saw that the waves were breaking about 100 yards or so closer to shore. We got the anchor down in Navy Cove just as it was getting dark. Thankfully we didn't have to run the ship channel at night!!!! It wasn't very rough at all in the gulf maybe 4-6' waves and 15kts of wind all of the action started at the ship's channel entrance. Next time I go into Mobile bay I'll come in from the sea buoy. A friend says that there is deep water close to shore to the east of the ship's channel but I'm too chicken to try that route.
10kt current with the tide change
The Point Pleaseant Canal New Jersey, connects Manasquan inlet to the Matidiconk river, leading into Barnegat Bay. The difference in the two is about 4 feet, so the canal gets wild. The bridges need to be rasied for most sailors and there are a few. Not only is the canal narrow, so the chop also gets wild and crazy, there is no place can you turn around. You bet I check to see which way the tide is running or I'd be in revearse the entire way, praying the bridge keeper sees me and has enough sence to see that I am in big trouble when the current runs 10knts and my boats hull speed is under 8 knts, and I don't know my speed in revearse.
The Point Pleaseant Canal New Jersey, connects Manasquan inlet to the Matidiconk river, leading into Barnegat Bay. The difference in the two is about 4 feet, so the canal gets wild. The bridges need to be rasied for most sailors and there are a few. Not only is the canal narrow, so the chop also gets wild and crazy, there is no place can you turn around. You bet I check to see which way the tide is running or I'd be in revearse the entire way, praying the bridge keeper sees me and has enough sence to see that I am in big trouble when the current runs 10knts and my boats hull speed is under 8 knts, and I don't know my speed in revearse.
Doesn't mean literary license is right
Time and Tide - can still go up and down Tide turns - still goes up and down We sail with the tide - wrong, sail with the current Body came in - wrong again. Just because it's written doesn't mean it's right. Check Chapman's or any other reference source. Tides go down, then current goes out. Sure, they're (integrally) related, but they are NOT the same thing. Stu
Time and Tide - can still go up and down Tide turns - still goes up and down We sail with the tide - wrong, sail with the current Body came in - wrong again. Just because it's written doesn't mean it's right. Check Chapman's or any other reference source. Tides go down, then current goes out. Sure, they're (integrally) related, but they are NOT the same thing. Stu
As mentioned by Windwalker, PNW waters...
require an astute awareness and knowledge of tides and tide currents. Tidal flows through the Straits flood and ebb these protected waters in interesting and subtle but powerful ways. Cruising these waters without this knowledge can get you and your boat into serious trouble. Rips, overfalls, rapids, eddies commonly found around and through passes and islands can turn a pleasant sail into a nightmare. There are a number of reliable publications that provide safe passage information and we study and plan our trips accordingly. Terry
require an astute awareness and knowledge of tides and tide currents. Tidal flows through the Straits flood and ebb these protected waters in interesting and subtle but powerful ways. Cruising these waters without this knowledge can get you and your boat into serious trouble. Rips, overfalls, rapids, eddies commonly found around and through passes and islands can turn a pleasant sail into a nightmare. There are a number of reliable publications that provide safe passage information and we study and plan our trips accordingly. Terry
Stu, you can buck tradition if you want,
but if
I tell you, "we sail with the tide and slack water is at 1530 hrs" and you show up at 1600 hrs you will be standing on the dock by yourself.;( Since tides ebb and flow and rise and fall and a rising tide lifts all ships, I think that you could get very wet if you sat on the beach at low tide and declared that the tide would rise but it wouldn't come in.
but ifI tell you, "we sail with the tide and slack water is at 1530 hrs" and you show up at 1600 hrs you will be standing on the dock by yourself.;( Since tides ebb and flow and rise and fall and a rising tide lifts all ships, I think that you could get very wet if you sat on the beach at low tide and declared that the tide would rise but it wouldn't come in.
Stu.....what is your point?
"Tides are the rise and fall of water due to the moon and sun's gravitational pull, as against current, which is the lateral motion of the water as the tide changes." -Rousmaniere, Annapolis etc.- Okay, so tide is measured vertically and tidal current is measured horizontally. However, water has to move for the tide to go up and down. This makes the vertical measurement (time and height) an important factor to consider even when tidal current, rather than water depth, is the main navigational issue. More importantly, most sailors understand this interrelationship and don't waste time nitpicking semantics.
"Tides are the rise and fall of water due to the moon and sun's gravitational pull, as against current, which is the lateral motion of the water as the tide changes." -Rousmaniere, Annapolis etc.- Okay, so tide is measured vertically and tidal current is measured horizontally. However, water has to move for the tide to go up and down. This makes the vertical measurement (time and height) an important factor to consider even when tidal current, rather than water depth, is the main navigational issue. More importantly, most sailors understand this interrelationship and don't waste time nitpicking semantics.
tidesonline site
For the usefull end of this issue take a look at www.tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/geographic We are very lucky have a noaa weather station at the fairway to our marina on the northern Chesapeake Bay. I can go nn-line from home and see if I'll have enough water to get in or out of the slip, what the wind, air temperature and water temperature and atmospheric pressure as well as a graph of these items over the past day and a half. Obviously if you are traveling in a tidal estuary you'd want to know the favorable and unfavorable conditions to plan your trips. On a day when the wind has been strong out of the northwest, it may 'blow the water out of the Bay' such that there won't be enough of a tide to even get out of the Marina entrance. It's nice to know that before we drive 75 miles to the boat for nothing.
For the usefull end of this issue take a look at www.tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/geographic We are very lucky have a noaa weather station at the fairway to our marina on the northern Chesapeake Bay. I can go nn-line from home and see if I'll have enough water to get in or out of the slip, what the wind, air temperature and water temperature and atmospheric pressure as well as a graph of these items over the past day and a half. Obviously if you are traveling in a tidal estuary you'd want to know the favorable and unfavorable conditions to plan your trips. On a day when the wind has been strong out of the northwest, it may 'blow the water out of the Bay' such that there won't be enough of a tide to even get out of the Marina entrance. It's nice to know that before we drive 75 miles to the boat for nothing.
Joe, thanks for asking, here's the point
From Kimball Livingston's "Sailing the Bay" about San Francisco Bay: (first edition, page 41) "While sailors really need not cure themselves of casually saying, "The tide is coming in," or "The tide is going out," they should at least be aware of the technical inaccuracy. Tides rise and fall. A rising tide is a flood tide. A falling tide is an ebb tide. {Hence the song!!! EBB TIDE -- added by Stu, not in the book!} The rise and fall [of the tides] help stir HORIZONTAL MOVEMENTS of water called current. Flood current [usually] flow INTO the Bay. Ebb currents flow out." So, ya can call the front of the boat the bow or the pointy end, but all I'm explaining is that there are "casual" inaccuracies that we all sometimes repeat, but to make the point and answer the question: tides rise and fall -- they are measured in distance (i.e., feet, fathoms, etc.) they cause the currents - currents are the horizontal movement in knots you NEED to know the tides to know how deep the water is or isn't you need to know the currents in speed to be able to "sail the tides" Everybody wins if they understand the basics and the terminology. BTW, Chapman's entire chapter on tides and currents describes this issue right at the beginning. Fair winds, Stu PS for instance, today we replaced and repaired some parts of our roller furling equipment at the dock. The dock rose and dropped (tides -- up and down) The sideways current pushed the boat from one side of the slip to the other (current -- sideways movement of water).
From Kimball Livingston's "Sailing the Bay" about San Francisco Bay: (first edition, page 41) "While sailors really need not cure themselves of casually saying, "The tide is coming in," or "The tide is going out," they should at least be aware of the technical inaccuracy. Tides rise and fall. A rising tide is a flood tide. A falling tide is an ebb tide. {Hence the song!!! EBB TIDE -- added by Stu, not in the book!} The rise and fall [of the tides] help stir HORIZONTAL MOVEMENTS of water called current. Flood current [usually] flow INTO the Bay. Ebb currents flow out." So, ya can call the front of the boat the bow or the pointy end, but all I'm explaining is that there are "casual" inaccuracies that we all sometimes repeat, but to make the point and answer the question: tides rise and fall -- they are measured in distance (i.e., feet, fathoms, etc.) they cause the currents - currents are the horizontal movement in knots you NEED to know the tides to know how deep the water is or isn't you need to know the currents in speed to be able to "sail the tides" Everybody wins if they understand the basics and the terminology. BTW, Chapman's entire chapter on tides and currents describes this issue right at the beginning. Fair winds, Stu PS for instance, today we replaced and repaired some parts of our roller furling equipment at the dock. The dock rose and dropped (tides -- up and down) The sideways current pushed the boat from one side of the slip to the other (current -- sideways movement of water).
Stu , We sail with the tide. Slack water begins at
1330hrs. If you think for one minute that we don't know and understand the difference between the effects of the tides on the depth of the water and the effects of the tide on the direction of flow, then you are failing to give credence to our intelligence. There are many terms that are used in our language that are simply terms of convenience. You may drive a team of horses and you may claim to drive a car but by following your narrow definitions you can only operate a car and guide it. we say "open up the door". Why is "up" included in the phrase? Or we may say, "Shut down the engine". Are we shutting anything and what does "down" have to do with the operation. I could continue ad nauseum but enough said. You may continue to adhere to your precise usage if you chose, but remember that should you start to use terms of convenience rather than the precise language that you embrace here then you are betraying your own guidelines for proper speech.
1330hrs. If you think for one minute that we don't know and understand the difference between the effects of the tides on the depth of the water and the effects of the tide on the direction of flow, then you are failing to give credence to our intelligence. There are many terms that are used in our language that are simply terms of convenience. You may drive a team of horses and you may claim to drive a car but by following your narrow definitions you can only operate a car and guide it. we say "open up the door". Why is "up" included in the phrase? Or we may say, "Shut down the engine". Are we shutting anything and what does "down" have to do with the operation. I could continue ad nauseum but enough said. You may continue to adhere to your precise usage if you chose, but remember that should you start to use terms of convenience rather than the precise language that you embrace here then you are betraying your own guidelines for proper speech.
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