We're dealing on a new boat and the dealer is claiming that newer boats are holding their value and sometimes even appreciating. Am wondering if this isn't true as we have seen the same model as we're looking at, one or two years older on the market for more that the price of the new one! Is there a "rule of thumb" for this issue? I know that new cars depreciate and the dealer tells us that power boats do, too, but not the same with sailboats. Thanks in advance for any help you can give us.
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I doubt you are looking at appreciation
Jim: I think that you may be looking at is the fact that the used boat has all of the extras added. The base price on a new 356 is $105k, the delivery price is closer to $130k. By the time an owner adds all of the goodies, freight and comissioning it really jack up the price. There may be some exceptions but not many.
Jim: I think that you may be looking at is the fact that the used boat has all of the extras added. The base price on a new 356 is $105k, the delivery price is closer to $130k. By the time an owner adds all of the goodies, freight and comissioning it really jack up the price. There may be some exceptions but not many.
selling a sailboat
A sailboat we bought in 99 was about 280 gs(450) with all the goodies and extra added items for our needs and to make the vessel more useful it came to 320 and is now for sale,I cant say more for fear of being deleted by da boss. We dont to expect all but it did add to the value for someone who wants these items.
A sailboat we bought in 99 was about 280 gs(450) with all the goodies and extra added items for our needs and to make the vessel more useful it came to 320 and is now for sale,I cant say more for fear of being deleted by da boss. We dont to expect all but it did add to the value for someone who wants these items.
Some do hold original value
If you read the review of the C320 on the Catalina Yachts web site, it states that the price in 1993 was about $60k. Add commissioning, freight and possibly a few options, and you were probably up to about $65k-70k. The current asking price for 1993 C320s seems to range about $60k-70k, so this year and model seems to have held its value. 1993 was probably still a pretty bad year to sell new sailboats (coming out of recession, luxury tax), and because of that there are fewer of those models available today. Under the right circumstances, it could happen, but my guess is that most saliboats will not hold their value, let alone appreciate.
If you read the review of the C320 on the Catalina Yachts web site, it states that the price in 1993 was about $60k. Add commissioning, freight and possibly a few options, and you were probably up to about $65k-70k. The current asking price for 1993 C320s seems to range about $60k-70k, so this year and model seems to have held its value. 1993 was probably still a pretty bad year to sell new sailboats (coming out of recession, luxury tax), and because of that there are fewer of those models available today. Under the right circumstances, it could happen, but my guess is that most saliboats will not hold their value, let alone appreciate.
The dollars may be the same, but
the value in later years is probably less due to the inflation factor alone. In "real" dollars, the value is most likely to be lower. Also, as the prices of new boats increase, that condition tends to drag up the price of used boats. I agree with all the other reasons others have given also. Rich
the value in later years is probably less due to the inflation factor alone. In "real" dollars, the value is most likely to be lower. Also, as the prices of new boats increase, that condition tends to drag up the price of used boats. I agree with all the other reasons others have given also. Rich
Not a Financial Investment
It is not a financial investment but may be an investment in your sanity.
It is not a financial investment but may be an investment in your sanity.
Dollars and sense
The shop til you drop approach is probably the best way to determine the potential future value of the boat you are considering. Is there a strong class association? Is it a respected builder? What are used ones selling for now? Does the boat have popular features? These and other things will have strong influence on future value. Good luck and good sailing: Jim Why Knot!
The shop til you drop approach is probably the best way to determine the potential future value of the boat you are considering. Is there a strong class association? Is it a respected builder? What are used ones selling for now? Does the boat have popular features? These and other things will have strong influence on future value. Good luck and good sailing: Jim Why Knot!
Sometimes, maybe, sorta...
In the 90's, when the economy was booming, at least out here in Seattle, we saw that some new boats more or less held their price (as opposed to their true value, factoring inflation) (excluding aftermarket upgrades and gear which never seem to play into a boat's value). But I think that situation was caused by sudden spike in demand for boats and long backlogs for new ones. in anything like normal times boats will depreciate.
In the 90's, when the economy was booming, at least out here in Seattle, we saw that some new boats more or less held their price (as opposed to their true value, factoring inflation) (excluding aftermarket upgrades and gear which never seem to play into a boat's value). But I think that situation was caused by sudden spike in demand for boats and long backlogs for new ones. in anything like normal times boats will depreciate.
Logic
Appreciation is the same for all items, sailboats, cars, etc. The only reason something will appreciate in value is the law of supply and demand. I am talking about an apple to apple comparison, not a list price vs a fully loaded, etc. Something has to affect the market to make people want to pay the higher price, either a highly desirable classic model made in limited numbers or a newer model which is so popular the factory has a backlog on deliveries.
Appreciation is the same for all items, sailboats, cars, etc. The only reason something will appreciate in value is the law of supply and demand. I am talking about an apple to apple comparison, not a list price vs a fully loaded, etc. Something has to affect the market to make people want to pay the higher price, either a highly desirable classic model made in limited numbers or a newer model which is so popular the factory has a backlog on deliveries.
There's Appreciation and Appreciation
Every time I sail her, my appreciation for Shibumi grows. What other people might be willing to pay for her? Now that's another story. As she's not for sale, it doesn't matter. Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Every time I sail her, my appreciation for Shibumi grows. What other people might be willing to pay for her? Now that's another story. As she's not for sale, it doesn't matter. Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
Not likely
I have heard of people who sell boats for more than they paid for them. They are the same kind of people who never run a deficit on their expense accounts. They are not at all like the rest of us. That said, some boats do hold their value better than others. Some may even just about keep pace with inflation. But the owners of those boats have to keep putting huge sums into them to keep them in tip top shape with all the latest up to date goodies. I suspect a well maintained Pacific Seacraft, for example, will be no bargain regardless of its age. The thing about goodies is they don't enhance the value of the boat, they just help it sell faster at the upper edge of the range for that boat. Repeat 100 times: "A boat is not an investment." Consider its residual vale to be zero the day you buy it and you will be happy.
I have heard of people who sell boats for more than they paid for them. They are the same kind of people who never run a deficit on their expense accounts. They are not at all like the rest of us. That said, some boats do hold their value better than others. Some may even just about keep pace with inflation. But the owners of those boats have to keep putting huge sums into them to keep them in tip top shape with all the latest up to date goodies. I suspect a well maintained Pacific Seacraft, for example, will be no bargain regardless of its age. The thing about goodies is they don't enhance the value of the boat, they just help it sell faster at the upper edge of the range for that boat. Repeat 100 times: "A boat is not an investment." Consider its residual vale to be zero the day you buy it and you will be happy.
Like I tell my wife...
...the boats only investment value is that which she privides us in pleasure. Enjoy your boat, but always remember that BOAT is an acronim for Break Out Another Thousand! My advice enjoy the boat and forget the finances...
...the boats only investment value is that which she privides us in pleasure. Enjoy your boat, but always remember that BOAT is an acronim for Break Out Another Thousand! My advice enjoy the boat and forget the finances...
Blame the banks.
This issue has really been at the whim of banks for about 20 years. In the early '70s yachts over about 35' appreciated. My uncle sold a C-and-C 35 in about 1976 for 12,000 more than he paid for it, through a broker, on the open market, in the City Island area. For years Cherubini 44s appreciated, like with a second house or resort property. It was worth it to mortgage your house for one (many C-44 buyers did). You could not even sell used boats when they kept pace with the inflation operating on new-boat prices. This was not so much due to supply-and-demand as it was the banks' perception of what constituted a 'yacht'. Lenders simply would not touch them. Sometime round the late '70s, banks got into the yacht-loan act. Prior to this you could never get more than a 5-year loan on a sailboat, regardless of cost, because the bank had the notion that everyone buying a sailboat over 30 ft was going to skip off to Tahiti and welch on the loan (no kidding). Once the banks realised they had been missing a lucrative market (like on non-ocean-crossing boats), loans of 15 years and more came out-- this about 1981 or so. In order to get a piece of the business, banks determined how much they would lend on a used boat compared to a new one; this fostered more boatbuilders (like Hunter) and likewise kept the lenders in the new-boat loan business as well. (I never heard of run-of-mill motorboats appreciating. They have always represented lost cash as far as I know.) Nowadays used fibreglass boats can be had at a fraction of their cost or replacement value. Whilst yachts are not appreciating now, it is a buyers' market in used production sailboats of respectable quality and ought to remain so for years. Just look what about $12,000 buys today. The choice is endless. But the guy buying a boat for an 'investment' today has got his head in the sand. I fear those days will never be seen again (just like George Bailey's Building and Loan!). JC 2
This issue has really been at the whim of banks for about 20 years. In the early '70s yachts over about 35' appreciated. My uncle sold a C-and-C 35 in about 1976 for 12,000 more than he paid for it, through a broker, on the open market, in the City Island area. For years Cherubini 44s appreciated, like with a second house or resort property. It was worth it to mortgage your house for one (many C-44 buyers did). You could not even sell used boats when they kept pace with the inflation operating on new-boat prices. This was not so much due to supply-and-demand as it was the banks' perception of what constituted a 'yacht'. Lenders simply would not touch them. Sometime round the late '70s, banks got into the yacht-loan act. Prior to this you could never get more than a 5-year loan on a sailboat, regardless of cost, because the bank had the notion that everyone buying a sailboat over 30 ft was going to skip off to Tahiti and welch on the loan (no kidding). Once the banks realised they had been missing a lucrative market (like on non-ocean-crossing boats), loans of 15 years and more came out-- this about 1981 or so. In order to get a piece of the business, banks determined how much they would lend on a used boat compared to a new one; this fostered more boatbuilders (like Hunter) and likewise kept the lenders in the new-boat loan business as well. (I never heard of run-of-mill motorboats appreciating. They have always represented lost cash as far as I know.) Nowadays used fibreglass boats can be had at a fraction of their cost or replacement value. Whilst yachts are not appreciating now, it is a buyers' market in used production sailboats of respectable quality and ought to remain so for years. Just look what about $12,000 buys today. The choice is endless. But the guy buying a boat for an 'investment' today has got his head in the sand. I fear those days will never be seen again (just like George Bailey's Building and Loan!). JC 2
World's Most Expensive Way To Travel Third Class..
...is a sailboat. I remember when I naively told my broker that one of the reasons I was buying a boat was for the appreciation. He cut me off and said that "The only reason to buy a boat is because you just gotta have a boat!" How true. But what bliss. Sometimes. Oh, well!
...is a sailboat. I remember when I naively told my broker that one of the reasons I was buying a boat was for the appreciation. He cut me off and said that "The only reason to buy a boat is because you just gotta have a boat!" How true. But what bliss. Sometimes. Oh, well!
A different point of view.
If you have had problems saving , buy a boat on credit. It will cost you but in the end you will have equity that would have never been there. Not the financial direction most want to go but it was the reason I justified my first boat. I would have spent the money doing something else but I had great pleasure building that equity.(at a price) It actually help us to start saving. I became very frugel and spent on nothing except what I thought the boat absolutely needed. This created a cash reserve that I started banking. I should have done that long ago. That is a different story. r.w.landau
If you have had problems saving , buy a boat on credit. It will cost you but in the end you will have equity that would have never been there. Not the financial direction most want to go but it was the reason I justified my first boat. I would have spent the money doing something else but I had great pleasure building that equity.(at a price) It actually help us to start saving. I became very frugel and spent on nothing except what I thought the boat absolutely needed. This created a cash reserve that I started banking. I should have done that long ago. That is a different story. r.w.landau
no way!!!
buy a used boat that has already depreciated! i had to pay $12k to get rid of my new boat after one season never ever look at a boat as an investment but a recreatiuonal and time consumming but rewrading activity dealers are the same as car dealers promising evcerything davejdn@aol.com
buy a used boat that has already depreciated! i had to pay $12k to get rid of my new boat after one season never ever look at a boat as an investment but a recreatiuonal and time consumming but rewrading activity dealers are the same as car dealers promising evcerything davejdn@aol.com
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