Do I need Insurance???

woodster · Jul 5, 2015

check with your underwriter to see if it makes any difference to them about the size to them if you were on the coast which it appears you are not i would recommend you look hard at tow insurance and spill and salvage coverage ...i am going to the salt water and am not considering comprehensive/loss at this time but i will have liability and the others i mentioned

justsomeguy · Jul 5, 2015

Newcat30 said:
snip-.
So, do I need insurance on this boat? -snip

No. Liability should suffice in this case, I would think.

hvbaker · Jul 5, 2015

If you plan to keep it in a marina you will likely need liability insurance required by the marina. Also you should have insurance to protect you should you spill oil or fuel in the water. Fines can be quite large.

woodster · Jul 5, 2015

try progressive for starters ...if you only get liability you will more than likely not need a survey

get several quotes and look at your blanket policy it may be your best bet

dlochner · Jul 6, 2015

Try BoatUS insurance. Rates tend to be as good or better than other companies for a yacht policy plus since they only insure boats, they are quite knowledgeable about boating insurance issues.

They write policies based on Agreed Hull Value. The rate will vary depending on where you sail. For the Great Lakes, the premium is about 1% of agreed hull value. They have a decreasing deductible based on the number of years that you haven't filed a claim.

I've had 2 claims with them in 30 years, they were prompt about settling the claim and included things that I hadn't thought of.

All in all, insurance for a $20K boat will not be too expensive.

DougM · Jul 6, 2015

In some cases, such as in marinas and in winter storage insurance my be required. Most reputable insurers are probably going to require an initial insurance survey. Usually at age ten another survey will be required and then every five years thereafter.

Chief RA · Jul 6, 2015

My boat is a '98 and USBoat didn't require a survey. Maybe because its a trailerable?
Chief

Rick Webb · Jul 6, 2015

Two Issues

Your homeowners insurance likely covers adequate liability insurance if written correctly for you already.

Two things it likely does not cover:

1. Pollution mitigation
2. Salvage

Without these you are going to be on the hook if something were to go amiss.

I'd start with the companies that write your current policies and see if you can purchase just the rider for these issues. Often it is best to have all your policies under the same company to keep from paying for duplicate coverage.

jeffschulz · Jul 6, 2015

liability insurance

My experience has been with Progressive, Boat US and State Farm.
For liability only, which is what the Marinas need, no survey is required.
However the terms of my $1MM umbrella are that I must provide $300K in liability for any vehicles/vessels owned. Then the umbrella kicks in. Paid $9K for my Catalina 30 and the Progressive liability only is about $225/yr. Surveys are expensive!

ramblinrod · Jul 6, 2015

Yes, you need a survey, whether an insurance company requires it or not.

The only time I would not recommend a pre-purchase survey is if:

a) You are a qualified SAMS certified surveyor.
b) You are highly knowledgeable in ABYC standards and sound boat building practices.
c) You are buying a project boat that will be completely stripped and outfitted after you learn b).

Way too many people look at a survey as an unnecessary expense. Way too many people are not as smart and knowledgable as they think they are. A survey provides you some protections from:

a) bad building practice by the original manufacturer.
b) changes in safety standards.
c) wear and tear.
d) poor DPO (damned previous owner) modifications.

I start my marine electrical seminars with,

Question 1: "How many have performed electrical modifications to their boat?"
(At least 50% of the audience raises their hand.)
Question 2: "How many believe that was performed properly and safely?"
(That same 50% continue to hold their hand up.)
Question 3: "When can we book an electrical inspection on your boat; no issues it's free, but on the finding of at least one safety issue, it's $200?" Only 1 or 2 book an inspection.

More interested in saving $200 than finding a significant safety issue on their boat.

Truly a fool's savings.

Get a survey, your boat, life, and crew may be saved for the sake of a few hundred dollars.

In practice, almost every boat I board for whatever reason has one or more serious electrical safety issues, and some of the most surprised are those who claimed their boat was safe.

Biggest culprits:

1. Improperly installed VHF radio. (Arguably most important safety device on boat).
2. Inadequate or improperly installed bilge pump.
3. Improperly installed battery charger.

The list goes on. I've seen boaters complain that the surveyor was too critical, only then open a locker to find a rats nest of loose wires, wire nuts, unravelling electrical tape, wire nuts, shorted battery selector switches, crimp connections that fall off if one touches them, and so on.

Most folks know not to frig with the 120Vac system, but few realize that the 12Vdc electrical system will burn your boat to the waterline if not wired properly, almost as easily.

So I recommend getting a survey whether the insurance company requires it or not.

ramblinrod
www.sheenmarine.com

Chief RA · Jul 6, 2015

ramblinrod: Did you have your Mac surveyed? Bet not. Chief

Crazy Dave Condon · Jul 6, 2015

NewCat30

I think you are located near Columbia, SC and there are a few good sail clubs who may want to advise. It would appear you are not as knowledgable as others but most will say to get a marine surevey but if you are going to strip the boat completely down, see if anyone in the local sail clubs will help you look it over who know what to look for. If not, get a survey as some will require it or could be the year. there could be things wrong if you do not know what to look at.

MrBill_FLL · Jul 6, 2015

your umbrella liability policy probably does NOT include a watercraft endorsement today.

You would need to add that, to be covered. (declare you own a boat). and the adjuster will likely raise your Umbrella rate to cover the uninsured risk.

(ie, run the numbers).

w4swk · Jul 6, 2015

While I appreciate your concern for my safety, I take exception with the implication in your post that 50% of us are incapable of maintaining our own boats. I visited the web page referenced in you profile and see that you have qualifications...I just feel that you came off a little more harsh than helpful.

Ken

ramblinrod said:
Yes, you need a survey, whether an insurance company requires it or not.

The only time I would not recommend a pre-purchase survey is if:

a) You are a qualified SAMS certified surveyor.
b) You are highly knowledgeable in ABYC standards and sound boat building practices.
c) You are buying a project boat that will be completely stripped and outfitted after you learn b).

Way too many people look at a survey as an unnecessary expense. Way too many people are not as smart and knowledgable as they think they are. A survey provides you some protections from:

a) bad building practice by the original manufacturer.
b) changes in safety standards.
c) wear and tear.
d) poor DPO (damned previous owner) modifications.

I start my marine electrical seminars with,

Question 1: "How many have performed electrical modifications to their boat?"
(At least 50% of the audience raises their hand.)
Question 2: "How many believe that was performed properly and safely?"
(That same 50% continue to hold their hand up.)
Question 3: "When can we book an electrical inspection on your boat; no issues it's free, but on the finding of at least one safety issue, it's $200?" Only 1 or 2 book an inspection.

More interested in saving $200 than finding a significant safety issue on their boat.

Truly a fool's savings.

Get a survey, your boat, life, and crew may be saved for the sake of a few hundred dollars.

In practice, almost every boat I board for whatever reason has one or more serious electrical safety issues, and some of the most surprised are those who claimed their boat was safe.

Biggest culprits:

1. Improperly installed VHF radio. (Arguably most important safety device on boat).
2. Inadequate or improperly installed bilge pump.
3. Improperly installed battery charger.

The list goes on. I've seen boaters complain that the surveyor was too critical, only then open a locker to find a rats nest of loose wires, wire nuts, unravelling electrical tape, wire nuts, shorted battery selector switches, crimp connections that fall off if one touches them, and so on.

Most folks know not to frig with the 120Vac system, but few realize that the 12Vdc electrical system will burn your boat to the waterline if not wired properly, almost as easily.

So I recommend getting a survey whether the insurance company requires it or not.

ramblinrod
www.sheenmarine.com

Ken Cross · Jul 6, 2015

Contrary opinion

Surveys can be helpful, but not always. They miss as much as I do. It's just a matter of a set of educated eyes. Having said that the value of the boat has a lot to do with whether or not you pay for one.

For my old San Juan 28 I didn't get a survey for because the survey would have been 16% of the value of the boat.

My newest Hunter 30 survey ended up costing me $700 for the survey and short haul. They missed a few things: (bad AGM engine battery, overheating, several through hulls without second clamps, water leaks, sanitary hoses permeated, stereo wiring not ever connected, etc.) I wish I'd put more faith in my own judgment in this case. Buying the boat was not a mistake for me, I just didn't need to spend the money for the survey and after all that the insurance didn't even want to see the survey (Boat US.)

You are your best advocate. Good judgment, knowledge of your own abilities, and willingness to learn something new will pay dividends.

If you have no technical skills you may need to buy a newer boat and hire help.

Ken

Stu Jackson · Jul 6, 2015

Ken, I didn't take that as a personal insult, but rather a good warning to others, and a good checklist, too.

Over the years we've read about some very strange things on boats, and none of us knows what your experience level may be. Ken Cross explained his background well. I owned two boats for over 15 years before we bought our current boat, but still had a survey done. It takes all different approaches. Like boating, there is no "best" answer.

Good luck. Good advice.

shemandr · Jul 6, 2015

Newcat30 said:
...if my boat sinks then I will just have to deal with it.

If you have anything to lose that is a bad plan. The USCG fines for even a gallon of fuel are substantial. And you can be required to remove the vessel from the site and even pay restoration costs for environmental damage. If it were just a matter of giving up an old beater of a boat, I suspect a lot of us wouldn't have insurance.

bfahle · Jul 6, 2015

I got full insurance for my '85 Hunter 28.5, paid cash of about 13k, insurance cost is $284 per year, which I've paid twice. On June 17th of 2015, atop record lake flooding, we also had 50-60kts wind washing ocean-like waves through our harbor. Three docks, including ours, came off their mud poles and hit the far shore. Several boats sunk, some uninsured. They will still have to get them out.

We managed to free our boat from the mud which had heeled us 30 degrees over on the far shoreline (we were on the end dock - our dock lines held), and the full assessment hasn't been determined yet because the insurance hasn't pulled the boat to look at the bottom yet, but needless to say we are very happy we had insurance. Seaworthy only does boats, and they are very good.