Discharge of sewage over 3 miles

[xavpil]

My surveyor noted that the sewage discharge system should be permanently disabled and the thru- hull fitting capped.
Now my insurance wants me to do exactly that...

Is this customary?
Aren't we allowed to discharge passed 3 miles from the coast (I know, not recommended)

Thx

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

You are in a “no discharge zone” on a lake. The 3 mile limit applies in the ocean and then there are exceptions to that as well.

 

[xavpil]

You are in a “no discharge zone” on a lake. The 3 mile limit applies in the ocean and then there are exceptions to that as well.

I see....
Thx

 

[garymalmgren]

RE: My surveyor noted that the sewage discharge system should be permanently disabled and the thru- hull fitting capped.
Is this customary?

No this is not customary. There must be something wrong with your sewage system. I imagine that your surveyor suggested that because of the condition of your sewage system.
Any component that can leak or block up quickly turns into a disaster.

 

[xavpil]

RE: My surveyor noted that the sewage discharge system should be permanently disabled and the thru- hull fitting capped.
Is this customary?

No this is not customary. There must be something wrong with your sewage system. I imagine that your surveyor suggested that because of the condition of your sewage system.
Any component that can leak or block up quickly turns into a disaster.

Nothing wrong with the system. It's on a new(er) boat...

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Nothing wrong with the system. It's on a new(er) boat...

Check local regs for Lake Michigan. Therein lies your answer. It’s a water supply for many large cities.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Aren't we allowed to discharge passed 3 miles from the coast (I know, not recommended)

You've already received your answer as far as your restrictions of being on a lake. But in my location in Southern California I do it all the time, and I see zero reason for it to be "not recommended." On my trips to and from Catalina Island, I dump the tank part way across the channel (more than 3 miles from any land), as it's much more convenient than taking the extra time to find a working pump out.

 

[dlochner]

So long as the boat is on the Great Lakes it will need to have its overboard discharge system disabled. If you are boarded by the Coast Guard for any reason and the system is not disabled you may be subject to a hefty fine. Once you have access to the Ocean where the 3 mile limit is in effect, you will be OK.

The surveyor overstated the case and your insurance company bought his recommendations. Explain to the insurance company your intention to sail on the ocean and explain how you will disable the overboard discharge system. You can do this by securing the Y-valve with a zip tie to prevent overboard discharge or by removing the hose from the thru-hull to the discharge pump, or by disconnecting the power from the pump. If you are insuring with a company that routinely provides yacht insurance the underwriters should understand this.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

So long as the boat is on the Great Lakes it will need to have its overboard discharge system disabled.

Not quite true. The system must be SECURED, but not permanently disabled; it is not necessary to remove any plumbing or equipment.

33 CFR 159.7 lists the acceptable means of securing it:
When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include—

(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and removing the handle;

(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position; or

(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position.

--Peggie

 

[Alan Gomes]

Not quite true. The system must be SECURED, but not permanently disabled; it is not necessary to remove any plumbing or equipment.

33 CFR 159.7 lists the acceptable means of securing it:
When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include—

(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and removing the handle;

(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position; or

(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position.

--Peggie

Excellent, Peggy! You've provided exactly what he needs to show to his insurance company should they try to force the issue.

 

[garymalmgren]

I understand the regulations and the sound reasons for them.
What I am wondering about is why, in those circumstances the surveyor suggested, that the sewage discharge system should be permanently disabled and the thru- hull fitting capped.

How does that fit into the picture?
How do you take a dump, store it and then pump it out in the correct location if you don't have a dunny .

"Dunny" being Australian for toilet for those who don't know,
That little gem of information could come in handy one day.
Ya neva no.

gary

 

[rgranger]

"Dunny" being Australian for toilet for those who don't know,
That little gem of information could come in handy one day.

I'm going to try to fit that into a conversation sometime today....

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

What I am wondering about is why, in those circumstances the surveyor suggested, that the sewage discharge system should be permanently disabled and the thru- hull fitting capped.


"

gary

Likely because the surveyor presumes no one is ever going to take a 27 ft boat through the Great Lakes and down the Hudson River to open water.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

As a former sailboat dealer, Peggy quoted what needs to be presented your insurance carrier. Also keep a supply of tie wraps on board too. You also need to know Canadian rules too if you accidentally go into their waters.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

What I am wondering about is why, in those circumstances the surveyor suggested, that the sewage discharge system should be permanently disabled and the thru- hull fitting capped.

Two most likely explanations:
1.Lake Champlain does require that for "resident" vessels...there's an ongoing debate on trawler sites whether it's enforceable on transient vessels who are just "passing through" while doing "the Great Loop." He may mistakenly believe that the Champlain reg applies to all the Great Lakes too.
2. He's an enviro-zealot.

As for your insurance company...it's common--and usually the right thing to do--for insurance companies to accept surveyors' recommendations. In your case I'd refer them to 40 CFR 140.3(a)(1).
In freshwater lakes, freshwater reservoirs or other freshwater impoundments whose inlets or outlets are such as to prevent the ingress or egress by vessel traffic subject to this regulation, or in rivers not capable of navigation by interstate vessel traffic subject to this regulation, marine sanitation devices certified by the U.S. Coast Guard (see 33 CFR part 159, published in 40 FR 4622, January 30, 1975), installed on all vessels shall be designed and operated to prevent the overboard discharge of sewage, treated or untreated, or of any waste derived from sewage. This shall not be construed to prohibit the carriage of Coast Guard-certified flow-through treatment devices which have been secured so as to prevent such discharges.

Note reference to "securing" the system (33 CFR 159), no mention of anything that can be interpreted as "disabling" it, temporarily or permenantly...it only requires that any Type I and II (treatment devices) also be "secured."

--Peggie

 

[Johann]

It may be easier to just comply. It will cost you 6” of sanitation hose, two plugs, and one hose clamp. Then when you get to the ocean it will take 10 minutes to reconfigure to the original setup.

 

[Techstyle]

I am in Milwaukee and all the sailors I know just close the thru hull and remove the handle.

In winter, when out of the water, open it just incase anything leaked from the tank or if the ball valve leaked - you don't want it to freeze!!

 

[Davidasailor26]

Maybe I’m parsing the OP too closely, but he did say “should”, not “must”. Maybe the surveyor figures this is a boat in the lakes, and so it would just be more prudent from a risk standpoint to cap the thru hull than risk having it stay open and a hose fail. In that case his recommendation would be coming more from a standpoint of risk mitigation than environmental compliance. I guess that also begs the cynical question that if you only do the zip tie method, then in 5 years you forget to close the seacock and the hose leaks, does the insurance company have an out from covering the loss?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Even though there's no legal requirement to do so, unless you're planning to head out to sea within the next year, I recommend removing any overboard discharge pump and its plumbing because extended lack of use is more destructive to equipment--especially anything that has an electric motor--than heavy use. Rubber parts in it dry out, lubrication in electric motors settles, leaving the motor unprotected from corrosion...everything that can deteriorate will deteriorate...and that applies to hoses, y-valves and seacocks too. Iow, "use it or lose it" also applies marine equipment. Getting rid of everything you can't use now, and putting a bung in the thru-hull also simplifies your system...easier to maintain.

--Peggie

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

…putting a bung in the thru-hull also simplifies your system...easier to maintain.

--Peggie

I shudder to think of the consequence of that as a solution. Plugs or “bungs” are meant as a temporary fix to avert a disaster, not a solution to anything.