I sail a Hunter 170 which is a 17 foot planing dinghy and I would like to optimize my sail trim for dealing with winds above 10-12 kts and gusts. When the wind picks up to this level I generally max out the main halyard, outhaul, and vang as well as reef the main (and may partially furl the jib as well). On the Hunter 170 I don't have a traveller for the main or jib or a cunningham. I also feather to weather, slightly undersheet the jib, and control average heel by trimming the main so that only the leech filled and working. In additional gusts, when I ease the main slightly further to control additional heel, my problem is that the rest of the main (ie, the leech) luffs and the trim on the main seems overly critical. At this point, since the jib is temporarily working unopposed the boat has a tendency to fall off (needing rudder compensation to stay on course). It definitely seems counterintuitive to be sheeting in the main in gusts when heel is increased. Any input on how best to deal with this circumstance would be very appreciated!
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Dick of Sylvan
Flat Main
Sounds like you are already doing about all I know about. Keep Main as flat (tighen vang and outhaul) and small (reefing) as possible, loosen mainsheet and jibsheet a little, and put all your body weight to windward (use extension on tiller). Keep hand on mainsheet and loosen mainsheet during severe gusts to keep from capsizing. One of the senior sailors of the Capri 14 group recently wrote about a "fisherman's reef" which is sort of a next to last resort approach when the wind builds and you are out where you have trouble gaining control. His approach for small sailboats, learned from his pro father is to tighten the jibsheet and loosen the mainsheet, sailing into the wind. The mainsail shakes a lot, but he has enough control to get him when he needs to go to get behind cover. Though he says it looks like poor seamanship, in fact its the opposite and can "save your bacon" at times. Keep your PFD tight! Dick K.
Sounds like you are already doing about all I know about. Keep Main as flat (tighen vang and outhaul) and small (reefing) as possible, loosen mainsheet and jibsheet a little, and put all your body weight to windward (use extension on tiller). Keep hand on mainsheet and loosen mainsheet during severe gusts to keep from capsizing. One of the senior sailors of the Capri 14 group recently wrote about a "fisherman's reef" which is sort of a next to last resort approach when the wind builds and you are out where you have trouble gaining control. His approach for small sailboats, learned from his pro father is to tighten the jibsheet and loosen the mainsheet, sailing into the wind. The mainsail shakes a lot, but he has enough control to get him when he needs to go to get behind cover. Though he says it looks like poor seamanship, in fact its the opposite and can "save your bacon" at times. Keep your PFD tight! Dick K.
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Bill O'Donovan
Good point
It is indeed counter-intuitive to pull in the main when in heavy wind. But what you're doing is spilling that heavy wind instead of containing it. That's the logic.
It is indeed counter-intuitive to pull in the main when in heavy wind. But what you're doing is spilling that heavy wind instead of containing it. That's the logic.
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Bruce Leidal
Rake your mast and release the vang!!
JBR, I raced in 18 foot Buccaneers at the regional and national level for nine years before moving to a Hunter 29.5. The Buccaneer is a 500 lbs boat with a main, jib and spiniker. In one regional regatta the wind was blowing 25+ and gusting to 35. Our boat was the only one that didn't flip and we won the race. But enough of sailing stories, let's solve your problem. Based on what you have discribed, that is, the jib will force you to fall off when the main is eased in a gust, you have lee-helm. This is a dangerous condition. To eliminate this you must rake your mask back, that is, reduce the length of the shrouds while lengthening the forestay until the top of the mast moves toward the stern. I would suggest that you rake it back about half way of the available adjustment and try it out. The desired effect is that the puff will spin the boat into the wind and dump the wind for you. If it doesn't work right, continue to rake it back. With the mast raked try this sail configuation for heavy air: 1. Adjust the jib lead aft until the bottom of the sail is flat. This will twist off the top of the jib and dump air. 2. Sheet the jib in hard. This will minimize windage. 3. Rig a cunningham (downhaul) and pull the main down hard while tightening the outhaul. This will flatten the lower part of the sail and move the draft aft, reducing windage. 4. Loosen the vang. This will twist off the top of the main and dump air. The mainsheet will be all the vang you need. Only use the vang downwind. 5. Hike hard. This means getting your butt out of the boat. Only the back of your thighs should be on the side of the boat. The rest of your body will be over the water (Live ballast). 6. Use the main to dump wind in the big gusts. 7. Smile, hang on, and have fun!!! Hope this helps. Bruce.
JBR, I raced in 18 foot Buccaneers at the regional and national level for nine years before moving to a Hunter 29.5. The Buccaneer is a 500 lbs boat with a main, jib and spiniker. In one regional regatta the wind was blowing 25+ and gusting to 35. Our boat was the only one that didn't flip and we won the race. But enough of sailing stories, let's solve your problem. Based on what you have discribed, that is, the jib will force you to fall off when the main is eased in a gust, you have lee-helm. This is a dangerous condition. To eliminate this you must rake your mask back, that is, reduce the length of the shrouds while lengthening the forestay until the top of the mast moves toward the stern. I would suggest that you rake it back about half way of the available adjustment and try it out. The desired effect is that the puff will spin the boat into the wind and dump the wind for you. If it doesn't work right, continue to rake it back. With the mast raked try this sail configuation for heavy air: 1. Adjust the jib lead aft until the bottom of the sail is flat. This will twist off the top of the jib and dump air. 2. Sheet the jib in hard. This will minimize windage. 3. Rig a cunningham (downhaul) and pull the main down hard while tightening the outhaul. This will flatten the lower part of the sail and move the draft aft, reducing windage. 4. Loosen the vang. This will twist off the top of the main and dump air. The mainsheet will be all the vang you need. Only use the vang downwind. 5. Hike hard. This means getting your butt out of the boat. Only the back of your thighs should be on the side of the boat. The rest of your body will be over the water (Live ballast). 6. Use the main to dump wind in the big gusts. 7. Smile, hang on, and have fun!!! Hope this helps. Bruce.
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JBR
To twist or not to twist, that is the question
Thanks to everyone who has replied and shared their input. Regarding raking the mast, I'll try this but will need to add a shackle to my forestay since it's a fixed length. Regarding twist, this is a most controversial topic. Some people and authors say that adding some twist is a useful way to spill air off the top leech in heavy air whereas others say it deepens the draft and powers up the sail so don't do it in heavy air (ie, instead crank down on the vang and use the mainsheet to do vang sheeting in gusts). Who's right? I'm not sure if it's different for dinghy's vs keel boats or if it depends on your point of sail (ie, feathered vs reaching). Also, I don't have a jib traveler so I'm quite limited in what I can do with the jib. Furthermore, there's no purchase on the jib sheet (or winch) so my ability to trim is limited by my muscle power. Regarding the jib, here's another controversy: I've read that over sheeting the jib in heavy air flattens the sail (depowering it - good) but may narrow the slot to the point that it makes the main overly critical in it's trim (ie, making it luff to easily - bad). So, shoud one be trying to maximally flatten the jib or slightly widen the slot in heavier wind? One other issue that I haven't tried or heard other's suggest is to raise the centerboard SLIGHTLY - is this something to try or just lunacy? The rationale would be that by reducing the force acting on the center of lateral resistance that the boat would side slip slightly and therefore heel less??? If sailing were easy it wouldn't be so fun!
Thanks to everyone who has replied and shared their input. Regarding raking the mast, I'll try this but will need to add a shackle to my forestay since it's a fixed length. Regarding twist, this is a most controversial topic. Some people and authors say that adding some twist is a useful way to spill air off the top leech in heavy air whereas others say it deepens the draft and powers up the sail so don't do it in heavy air (ie, instead crank down on the vang and use the mainsheet to do vang sheeting in gusts). Who's right? I'm not sure if it's different for dinghy's vs keel boats or if it depends on your point of sail (ie, feathered vs reaching). Also, I don't have a jib traveler so I'm quite limited in what I can do with the jib. Furthermore, there's no purchase on the jib sheet (or winch) so my ability to trim is limited by my muscle power. Regarding the jib, here's another controversy: I've read that over sheeting the jib in heavy air flattens the sail (depowering it - good) but may narrow the slot to the point that it makes the main overly critical in it's trim (ie, making it luff to easily - bad). So, shoud one be trying to maximally flatten the jib or slightly widen the slot in heavier wind? One other issue that I haven't tried or heard other's suggest is to raise the centerboard SLIGHTLY - is this something to try or just lunacy? The rationale would be that by reducing the force acting on the center of lateral resistance that the boat would side slip slightly and therefore heel less??? If sailing were easy it wouldn't be so fun!
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Bruce Leidal
So many questions, so little space to respond.
JBR, You have packed a lot into your response, so let me give you some theory so to give you some methods of decided which advice to follow... First, raking the mast. You have a small roller reefing system that attaches to the bow with a pin. Add a D shackle between the bottom of the furling and the bow attachment. Second, in heavy air while beating you have to make choices. Are you simply trying to survive or make the best speed to your target (VMG). If you want to survive, then raise the centerboard a bit, flatten the jib, twist off the main and you will be as depowered as it gets. This will cause you to slip sideways in the water and spill as much air as possible. If, however, you are interested in the best VMG then you must keep the center board down (reduce slipage), flatten the jib, use the mainsheet to crank in the main and hike like crazy. Dump the main with the mainsheet in the puffs to keep from going over. In my nine years of sailing the 18 foot Buccaneer at the national level (which has a fixed mounted mainsheet block, ie, no traveler) I NEVER used the vang while beating in heavy air. I always tryed to flatten the main(tight cunningham and outhaul) and use the mainsheet as the twist control. Let me recap the basics on making the main flat or full. Flat: tight cunningham and outhaul, loose vang. This moves the draft backwards. Full: Loose cunningham and outhaul and tight vang. This moves the draft forward and tightens the leach (making the sail like a balloon). This latter setting is great for downwind runs. Concerning the jib: Flat jib will reduce the slot, therefore backwinding the main. Fact of life. Two ways to reduce backwind on the main, first is to loosen the jib and the second is to move the boom to midship. In heavy wind when you are trying to depower you must flatten the jib and twist off the main. In this situation you will have to backwind the main. Concerning your point on a jib-traveler. Most boats have a jib-track that will allow the jib lead to be moved forward or aft to adjust the draft of the jib. If you don't have one, the only way to twist off the jib will be to furl the jib a little, This will change the angle of the jib lead, flatten the bottom of the sail and twist off the top. You must be able to move the jib lead aft (or the clew forward) in a blow to dump air off the top of the jib. Also, I would strongly suggest that you replace your jib turning blocks with ratchet blocks. Harken makes great blocks for this purpose. Ratchet blocks only rotate one-way. This will make the sail easy to pull in and hold and will be able to be let out by friction. While you are checking this out, look at the mainsheet ratchet blocks as well. It takes a lot less strength with these helpers. Hope this helps.
JBR, You have packed a lot into your response, so let me give you some theory so to give you some methods of decided which advice to follow... First, raking the mast. You have a small roller reefing system that attaches to the bow with a pin. Add a D shackle between the bottom of the furling and the bow attachment. Second, in heavy air while beating you have to make choices. Are you simply trying to survive or make the best speed to your target (VMG). If you want to survive, then raise the centerboard a bit, flatten the jib, twist off the main and you will be as depowered as it gets. This will cause you to slip sideways in the water and spill as much air as possible. If, however, you are interested in the best VMG then you must keep the center board down (reduce slipage), flatten the jib, use the mainsheet to crank in the main and hike like crazy. Dump the main with the mainsheet in the puffs to keep from going over. In my nine years of sailing the 18 foot Buccaneer at the national level (which has a fixed mounted mainsheet block, ie, no traveler) I NEVER used the vang while beating in heavy air. I always tryed to flatten the main(tight cunningham and outhaul) and use the mainsheet as the twist control. Let me recap the basics on making the main flat or full. Flat: tight cunningham and outhaul, loose vang. This moves the draft backwards. Full: Loose cunningham and outhaul and tight vang. This moves the draft forward and tightens the leach (making the sail like a balloon). This latter setting is great for downwind runs. Concerning the jib: Flat jib will reduce the slot, therefore backwinding the main. Fact of life. Two ways to reduce backwind on the main, first is to loosen the jib and the second is to move the boom to midship. In heavy wind when you are trying to depower you must flatten the jib and twist off the main. In this situation you will have to backwind the main. Concerning your point on a jib-traveler. Most boats have a jib-track that will allow the jib lead to be moved forward or aft to adjust the draft of the jib. If you don't have one, the only way to twist off the jib will be to furl the jib a little, This will change the angle of the jib lead, flatten the bottom of the sail and twist off the top. You must be able to move the jib lead aft (or the clew forward) in a blow to dump air off the top of the jib. Also, I would strongly suggest that you replace your jib turning blocks with ratchet blocks. Harken makes great blocks for this purpose. Ratchet blocks only rotate one-way. This will make the sail easy to pull in and hold and will be able to be let out by friction. While you are checking this out, look at the mainsheet ratchet blocks as well. It takes a lot less strength with these helpers. Hope this helps.
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JBR
Bruce, fabulous advice.....feedback
Bruce, it's really kind of you to take the time share your expertise in such detail; your input is obviously borne of great experience. I'm so impressed with how very well conceived and clearly explained it is; it will save me and others who read this thread countless headaches. At this point (for now), I'm generally interested in heavy air survival not max VMG so in addition to flattening the main I need to ease vang to add twist (I assume this is what you mean by "twisting off"), not reduce twist as I had been. You wouldn't believe the number of seasoned sailors who advise against adding twist in heavy weather because they think it increases sail draft powering up the sail and therefore is dangerous! If I understand you correctly, adding twist DOES NOT increase the draft; rather draft up and down the sail remains roughly unchanged but the sail's angle of attack higher up is reduced (effectivly depowering the upper sail by spilling it's air). I am confused by one of your comments: "Flat: tight cunningham and outhaul, loose vang. This moves the draft backwards" - two issues: 1)with tight cunningham and outhaul isn't the sail flat regardless of the vang (as above), and 2)I was under the distinct impression that tighening the cunningham moves the draft foreward (depowering the sail) not aft? Regarding reducing backwinding of the main by the narrowed slot when flattening the jib: "moving the boom to mid-ship" - great point! But, up to now I've not been able to do this becuase I've had no twist and therefore too much power in the main! In fact, when beating in very heavy air with an untwisted main the boat has been so overpowered that the boom has had to be trimmed WAY OUT to control heel. In heavy weather, I may not be able to get the boom to the midline, but with twist I'll be able to get it closer in and therefore reduce backiwinding with a (necessarily) flat jib. Regarding twisting the jib without a jib traveler, your point of partially furling the jib to accomplish the same thing is brilliant! I've heard that one could also use a barbenhauler but I assume this is for larger boats and not appropriate on a planing dinghy. Regarding ratchet blocks: I've got one on the mainsheet and it's great. Believe it or not, my jib sheets don't have a block but instead use just a fairlead with a swiveling cleat. Swapping these for a ratchet block with a swiveling cleat sounds like a great idea, something I hadn't thought of. Once again, Bruce, thank-you so much for your fabulous insight.
Bruce, it's really kind of you to take the time share your expertise in such detail; your input is obviously borne of great experience. I'm so impressed with how very well conceived and clearly explained it is; it will save me and others who read this thread countless headaches. At this point (for now), I'm generally interested in heavy air survival not max VMG so in addition to flattening the main I need to ease vang to add twist (I assume this is what you mean by "twisting off"), not reduce twist as I had been. You wouldn't believe the number of seasoned sailors who advise against adding twist in heavy weather because they think it increases sail draft powering up the sail and therefore is dangerous! If I understand you correctly, adding twist DOES NOT increase the draft; rather draft up and down the sail remains roughly unchanged but the sail's angle of attack higher up is reduced (effectivly depowering the upper sail by spilling it's air). I am confused by one of your comments: "Flat: tight cunningham and outhaul, loose vang. This moves the draft backwards" - two issues: 1)with tight cunningham and outhaul isn't the sail flat regardless of the vang (as above), and 2)I was under the distinct impression that tighening the cunningham moves the draft foreward (depowering the sail) not aft? Regarding reducing backwinding of the main by the narrowed slot when flattening the jib: "moving the boom to mid-ship" - great point! But, up to now I've not been able to do this becuase I've had no twist and therefore too much power in the main! In fact, when beating in very heavy air with an untwisted main the boat has been so overpowered that the boom has had to be trimmed WAY OUT to control heel. In heavy weather, I may not be able to get the boom to the midline, but with twist I'll be able to get it closer in and therefore reduce backiwinding with a (necessarily) flat jib. Regarding twisting the jib without a jib traveler, your point of partially furling the jib to accomplish the same thing is brilliant! I've heard that one could also use a barbenhauler but I assume this is for larger boats and not appropriate on a planing dinghy. Regarding ratchet blocks: I've got one on the mainsheet and it's great. Believe it or not, my jib sheets don't have a block but instead use just a fairlead with a swiveling cleat. Swapping these for a ratchet block with a swiveling cleat sounds like a great idea, something I hadn't thought of. Once again, Bruce, thank-you so much for your fabulous insight.
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Bruce Leidal
Clarifing the discussion
JBR, A couple of comments regarding your last note... First of all, you are correct, in that when you increase cunningham it moves the draft FORWARD. That's what I get for not proof reading what I sent. Sorry for the confussion. Second point is on the use of the vang. If you were sailing on a boat with an end of boom mainsheet system (Laser, Rebel, Lightening) I would have suggested using the vang to flatten the main. This is because tightening the mainsheet would pull the leach down and power the sail up, requiring the vang to pull the forward part of the boom down, reducing the fullness of the main. In the case of the 170, you have mid-boom sheeting. In heavy wind the leach will open because the boom will bend aft of the mainsheet attachment, thereby bowing the forward part of the boom which will reduce the fullness of the main. The trade-off is that using the vang will keep the leach in a constant position. Without the vang, the mainsheet can control the amount of twist and make it adjustable to the conditions. About the slot. In heavy air the backwinding of the main (closing or blocking the slot) is not a big issue unless you want to maximize VMG. The issue in heavy wind is keeping the pointing part up. About barber haulers. These are usually seen on planing dingies and are used to adjust the jib lead inboard or outboard to control the slot. Very useful in racing when going through the gears (powerup, speed, point). They will not work as a jib-lead adjustment. You would have to add jib-tracks to make lead adjustments. At this point you need to go try it out. Good sailing, Bruce.
JBR, A couple of comments regarding your last note... First of all, you are correct, in that when you increase cunningham it moves the draft FORWARD. That's what I get for not proof reading what I sent. Sorry for the confussion. Second point is on the use of the vang. If you were sailing on a boat with an end of boom mainsheet system (Laser, Rebel, Lightening) I would have suggested using the vang to flatten the main. This is because tightening the mainsheet would pull the leach down and power the sail up, requiring the vang to pull the forward part of the boom down, reducing the fullness of the main. In the case of the 170, you have mid-boom sheeting. In heavy wind the leach will open because the boom will bend aft of the mainsheet attachment, thereby bowing the forward part of the boom which will reduce the fullness of the main. The trade-off is that using the vang will keep the leach in a constant position. Without the vang, the mainsheet can control the amount of twist and make it adjustable to the conditions. About the slot. In heavy air the backwinding of the main (closing or blocking the slot) is not a big issue unless you want to maximize VMG. The issue in heavy wind is keeping the pointing part up. About barber haulers. These are usually seen on planing dingies and are used to adjust the jib lead inboard or outboard to control the slot. Very useful in racing when going through the gears (powerup, speed, point). They will not work as a jib-lead adjustment. You would have to add jib-tracks to make lead adjustments. At this point you need to go try it out. Good sailing, Bruce.
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JBR
Bruce, thanks for the clarification
Thanks, Buce, you make some great points as usual. Regarding the vang on mid-boom sheeted boats, the issues you raise are a real eye-opener; although I'm familiar with how one can bend the mast by flattening the sail (ie, effect of tightening the leech on the upper mast and forward pressure on the lower mast by the boom), I've never heard of or considered the issues related to bending the BOOM via wind pressue on mid-boom sheeted boats. I had assumed that the boom didn't bend much because it is short compared with the mast. In thinking about it, however, it's not unreasonable for it to bend so some degree. Also, if it's under great load via heavy air, based on your insights, I would assume it exerts a lateral force on the mast at the gooseneck (ie, the force "pivoting" on the mid-boom mainsheet attachment point). This should bow the low/mid mast slightly to windards also flattening the sail. You're right about it being time to go sailing. Based on your superb input I'm chomping on the bit to get out and put all this theory into practice. If only the water weren't so cold!
Thanks, Buce, you make some great points as usual. Regarding the vang on mid-boom sheeted boats, the issues you raise are a real eye-opener; although I'm familiar with how one can bend the mast by flattening the sail (ie, effect of tightening the leech on the upper mast and forward pressure on the lower mast by the boom), I've never heard of or considered the issues related to bending the BOOM via wind pressue on mid-boom sheeted boats. I had assumed that the boom didn't bend much because it is short compared with the mast. In thinking about it, however, it's not unreasonable for it to bend so some degree. Also, if it's under great load via heavy air, based on your insights, I would assume it exerts a lateral force on the mast at the gooseneck (ie, the force "pivoting" on the mid-boom mainsheet attachment point). This should bow the low/mid mast slightly to windards also flattening the sail. You're right about it being time to go sailing. Based on your superb input I'm chomping on the bit to get out and put all this theory into practice. If only the water weren't so cold!
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