We have a little bit of a dilema (The admiral and myself)about moving up to a larger boat or keeping the one we have. We currently have a 1986 H23 thats in great shape and that we have done quite a few projects on it to make it more comfortable. I wouldn't mind getting a little bigger one maybe a 27'. My wife thinks we should take the money we would spend on a bigger boat and make this one as comfortable as possible and add all the upgrades we would like to have. This boat also can be towed easily, she likes how it sails and we can store it at our shop in the winter time. I would like more room for cruising more and just like the feel of a bigger boat. Any input from anybody that has stayed with a smaller one and tricked it out? I saw what Brian and Steph did with their 25 and that seemed pretty nice. Any thoughts and input would be appreciated. Rob Morton S/V Euphoia
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One Option: Own TWO Boats!
One option you might consider is keeping the one you have and buying another - that's what we did. If you really like the one you have it would be a heartbreaker to sell it only to find out that you really should have kept it. The plus is you really know the boat, most likely took really good care of her, and all you'd get at sale time is probably some low-ball offer. If you are serious about a larger boat you can buy it and see if it works for you. Realize that with a new toy the "old" one will just sit there while you play with the new one. If the newer and larger boat doesn't work out you still have your old love. If it sits in the water the new boat will require a lot more maintenance and all the work you'll have to drive to marina to do. From the parking lot it'll be a five minute walk to the slip and if you forget anything just double that. An older "new" boat will probably have a backlog of deferred maintenance that'll keep you really busy. Tough decision so good luck. It's a delima that I'm sure a lot of us have thought about.
One option you might consider is keeping the one you have and buying another - that's what we did. If you really like the one you have it would be a heartbreaker to sell it only to find out that you really should have kept it. The plus is you really know the boat, most likely took really good care of her, and all you'd get at sale time is probably some low-ball offer. If you are serious about a larger boat you can buy it and see if it works for you. Realize that with a new toy the "old" one will just sit there while you play with the new one. If the newer and larger boat doesn't work out you still have your old love. If it sits in the water the new boat will require a lot more maintenance and all the work you'll have to drive to marina to do. From the parking lot it'll be a five minute walk to the slip and if you forget anything just double that. An older "new" boat will probably have a backlog of deferred maintenance that'll keep you really busy. Tough decision so good luck. It's a delima that I'm sure a lot of us have thought about.
small vs, big,
Get a copy of Jerry Caldwells book ,Sailing big on a small sail boat, publisher sheridan house , the other alternative would be to try to go out for a long day with someone who has a larger boat and see how you like theirs . You might also charter a larger boats similiar to the one you would buy , either way good luck Mike
Get a copy of Jerry Caldwells book ,Sailing big on a small sail boat, publisher sheridan house , the other alternative would be to try to go out for a long day with someone who has a larger boat and see how you like theirs . You might also charter a larger boats similiar to the one you would buy , either way good luck Mike
Cardwell's Book is Great...
I agree with Mike on Cardwell's book. He uses down to earth analysis of big vs. large. One of his many truisms was, "a big problem on a small boat is less expensive than a small problem on a big boat". How true! However, Cardwell doesn't include the H26 or H260 in his recommendation because of their width in light of the legal highway towing limits. In my opinion, these boats should still be considered by a person considering a "trailerable". I settled on an H26. BrianW
I agree with Mike on Cardwell's book. He uses down to earth analysis of big vs. large. One of his many truisms was, "a big problem on a small boat is less expensive than a small problem on a big boat". How true! However, Cardwell doesn't include the H26 or H260 in his recommendation because of their width in light of the legal highway towing limits. In my opinion, these boats should still be considered by a person considering a "trailerable". I settled on an H26. BrianW
Exposure
There are advantages and disadvanteges to every boat. Larger boats require a large financial commitment. My recommedation is to charter and bum rides on as many different boats as you can before buying. You can't take anyones recommdation on a paticular boat because we all have different needs and exposure is the only way to figure out what you want or need. One of the things we have learned since we started crusing and it is true for us as well as many others is when you find the perfect boat, buy the next size up. For us once we loaded everything onboard a little more room would make it perfect. Though we love Makai, the next one will be a little larger. We do not choose to sail like we are camping, but that is our choice.
There are advantages and disadvanteges to every boat. Larger boats require a large financial commitment. My recommedation is to charter and bum rides on as many different boats as you can before buying. You can't take anyones recommdation on a paticular boat because we all have different needs and exposure is the only way to figure out what you want or need. One of the things we have learned since we started crusing and it is true for us as well as many others is when you find the perfect boat, buy the next size up. For us once we loaded everything onboard a little more room would make it perfect. Though we love Makai, the next one will be a little larger. We do not choose to sail like we are camping, but that is our choice.
Have you got the 3-feet-more-decease ?
I've also had that. Started with a 26 foot IF and thought if I just had 3feet more, then I could ... and a couple of years later I was sailing a Ballad 30footer. After some years I had a 33ft Maxi motorsailor and then a 40 foot Lady Helmsman. They were all different boats with their own pros and cons. 40 feet is a lot when you're polishing it and it's also a lot of $ when something has to be replaced. And I liked them all. Now I have H26 and as I see it, it's my last boat - it has the space,(Head, kitchen, bedroom, ....) the possibility to go safely in shallow waters (and there's a lot of that in the Swedish archipelagoe) and I can handle it very well single handed - that was OK in the others too, but this one is easy. Why not rent a 30 footer a week and really try it in real life. Then you'll get a good glimps of what it's like.
I've also had that. Started with a 26 foot IF and thought if I just had 3feet more, then I could ... and a couple of years later I was sailing a Ballad 30footer. After some years I had a 33ft Maxi motorsailor and then a 40 foot Lady Helmsman. They were all different boats with their own pros and cons. 40 feet is a lot when you're polishing it and it's also a lot of $ when something has to be replaced. And I liked them all. Now I have H26 and as I see it, it's my last boat - it has the space,(Head, kitchen, bedroom, ....) the possibility to go safely in shallow waters (and there's a lot of that in the Swedish archipelagoe) and I can handle it very well single handed - that was OK in the others too, but this one is easy. Why not rent a 30 footer a week and really try it in real life. Then you'll get a good glimps of what it's like.
my 2
A lot of good feedback on this common dilema. I think a lot depends on your location and style of cruising. I noticed you are in Oregon. For saltwater I'd definitely go with something a bit bigger and keep it at a dock. I wouldn't want to trailer the 23, much less anything bigger. I keep mine at a dock and get much more use out of it than if I trailered her. We recently chartered a 27 footer on Lake Superior and that was a perfect size for us. A few more feet in LOA makes a huge difference in boats. Chartering before buying is an excellent suggestion.
A lot of good feedback on this common dilema. I think a lot depends on your location and style of cruising. I noticed you are in Oregon. For saltwater I'd definitely go with something a bit bigger and keep it at a dock. I wouldn't want to trailer the 23, much less anything bigger. I keep mine at a dock and get much more use out of it than if I trailered her. We recently chartered a 27 footer on Lake Superior and that was a perfect size for us. A few more feet in LOA makes a huge difference in boats. Chartering before buying is an excellent suggestion.
Thanks for the input!
I appreciate all the thoughts. I ordered the book recommended and it should be here in a couple of days. We are going to go look at some other boats this next week and see what we think. Its to bad that the size of the boat fund always has to be a factor. Again thanks! Bobsail: If you e-mail me I'll give you an update. I'd like to hear how your new boat is doing. My computor crashed and I no longer have your e-mail. Rob Morton
I appreciate all the thoughts. I ordered the book recommended and it should be here in a couple of days. We are going to go look at some other boats this next week and see what we think. Its to bad that the size of the boat fund always has to be a factor. Again thanks! Bobsail: If you e-mail me I'll give you an update. I'd like to hear how your new boat is doing. My computor crashed and I no longer have your e-mail. Rob Morton
In Favor of Small Boats: Our Reasoning
Rob, Our family has gone through the '2 ft-itis'. We presently have an 85 H23 and we found that most of our sailing is day sailing for which the H23 is ideal. We do 2-3 overnight weekend trips (family of 4; 2 kids 9 and 11) and we decided to make the H23 as comfortable as possible. This ment a dodger and cockpit awning. I have read the Jerry Cardwell book and am an advocate of his reasoning. When I looked at a 27' size boat, I found that the upkeep would be more than 2X expensive and didn't make sense unless we were really committing to owning a second home; and if that's the case, we'd rather gor with a second home that we could sail a boat from. There are many techniques that can be used to open up the boat for the overnighter. Most involve using the cockpit space for either a shaded porch/dining room during the day or head during the night. In fact, there are those who say using the cockpit as a head (with canvas for privacy) is actually better since you get the head smell out of the cabin entirely! Good Luck, Chuck S/V Windsongs H23
Rob, Our family has gone through the '2 ft-itis'. We presently have an 85 H23 and we found that most of our sailing is day sailing for which the H23 is ideal. We do 2-3 overnight weekend trips (family of 4; 2 kids 9 and 11) and we decided to make the H23 as comfortable as possible. This ment a dodger and cockpit awning. I have read the Jerry Cardwell book and am an advocate of his reasoning. When I looked at a 27' size boat, I found that the upkeep would be more than 2X expensive and didn't make sense unless we were really committing to owning a second home; and if that's the case, we'd rather gor with a second home that we could sail a boat from. There are many techniques that can be used to open up the boat for the overnighter. Most involve using the cockpit space for either a shaded porch/dining room during the day or head during the night. In fact, there are those who say using the cockpit as a head (with canvas for privacy) is actually better since you get the head smell out of the cabin entirely! Good Luck, Chuck S/V Windsongs H23
I moved from 22 to 25 . . .
We were faced w/ a similar decision last year. Had an H22 that was a sweet little thing but I could not get used to the (lack of) head room so we started looking around. Found an older Cal 2-25 that feels sooo much better. The Cal has a 22' WL and a 9' plus beam and 5'10" headroom. It also has a nice hull form so sails well in light air. I guess my point is that the step from a 22/23 to a 25 can be very rewarding with extra space and stability w/o a whole lot more expenditure. I looked at 27's but they were a lot more expensive so we will probably stay w/ this 25 (or a newer 25).
We were faced w/ a similar decision last year. Had an H22 that was a sweet little thing but I could not get used to the (lack of) head room so we started looking around. Found an older Cal 2-25 that feels sooo much better. The Cal has a 22' WL and a 9' plus beam and 5'10" headroom. It also has a nice hull form so sails well in light air. I guess my point is that the step from a 22/23 to a 25 can be very rewarding with extra space and stability w/o a whole lot more expenditure. I looked at 27's but they were a lot more expensive so we will probably stay w/ this 25 (or a newer 25).
Chuck in Long Island...
Would you mind e-mailing me if I could ask you some more questions on what you did to your boat? My wife is more in favor of keeping our h23 and was wondering more what you did. Our e-mail is morton@oregonvos.net. If you've got to much going on we understand that too. Thanks, Rob Morton
Would you mind e-mailing me if I could ask you some more questions on what you did to your boat? My wife is more in favor of keeping our h23 and was wondering more what you did. Our e-mail is morton@oregonvos.net. If you've got to much going on we understand that too. Thanks, Rob Morton
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