Difficulty raising the main

[gfcng]

Hello,
I recently purchased an 89 standard rig Cat 30. The main is led aft to a cabin top winch. I've found that when the main is approx. 2'- 3' from the top of the mast it's almost impossible raise further, both at the mast and using the cabin top winch. It might be possible with enough muscle but the amount of tension on the halyard is concerning. The halyard is pretty old and appears to be much larger than the specified 3/8".

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Gary

 

[shemandr]

You need lube the track with some version of dry lube (PTFE). OK the mast is already up so ... you do as much as possible from the deck and the upper slides/boltrope. There is a technic to attach a rag to drag up the track/slide impregnated with the PTFE. I'm skeptical about this since most of the sprays dry instantly. In whatever event dry lube the track liberally next time the mast is down.
If all this doesn't work you should consider a system like a track slide:

Sail Track & Slide System by Tides Marine – Sail Care

I can attest that I could raise the main on a 32' boat by myself in less than 10 seconds.
If you have any doubts about the halyard you should replace it and use ultra low stretch cordage.

 

[CurtisC]

Gary,
First thought is replace the old oversized halyard with the correct size. An oversized halyard will increase your workload as you pull it thru undersized sheives and turning blocks. You could also have earlier binding at the masthead as soon as the tail of the halyard splice tries to enter masthead casting. Any signs of abrasion at the halyard splice? With sail as high as is reasonable, have you looked at the mast head area with binocs? You may be as high as you can go given length of shackle used, a fat eye splice and the location of eye in the sail head. Any signs of distress in the top sail slug, abnormal wear of the flange that rides in the track? Follow the track up with binocs looking for any deformation or blockage in the track at the top. Shoot the track as high as you can reach and the slugs with silicone spray or better yet a dry lube like Salikote as you feed them in. It may not fix the final binding but raising the sail in general will get a lot easier.

 

[Ward H]

The ideas to lubricate the track and replacing the halyard are good but first back to the basics.
1. Are you remembering to release the main sheet and vang before raising the main? If not released they will hold the boom down.
2. Is the boom hanging below 90 deg? It should be slightly angled up when raising the main or you will be trying to pull up the weight of the boom with the main sail via the main halyard.
3. Are there any reef lines or a Cunningham attached that is keeping the sail from going up smoothly?
3. Is the halyard attached to the top most attachment point on the headboard? If attached to a lower point the headboard could be pulled on an angle and causing extra friction in the mast track.
4. And a halyard larger than 3/8" will have more friction going through the mast head sheaves and the deck turning blocks than the spec'd 3/8" halyard.

Then move on to lubing the track and sail slugs.

@shemandr mentioned the Tides Marine Strong Track. I just installed one on my C30. While it makes raising the main easier, it is costly (about $1,300 for a C30) and should only be considered after you have ensured all the other things mentioned have been addressed. Otherwise you may be disappointed to find you still have issues.

PS: I don't think the turning blocks to bring the main halyard back to the cockpit are sized for a line over 3/8". Try slacking off the halyard and pulling it back and forth through the turning blocks to see how smoothly the line runs.

PSS: Another thought. Are you opening the rope clutch when pulling on the halyard? While you can pull the halyard through a closed clutch it does add lots of friction.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I have a 1988 C30 tall and I need to use the winch for the last 3-4 feet but the ST16 handles it ok. Oversizing the halyards beyond 3/8" is a known problem because not only are the sheaves sized for 3/8" but there is very little clearance over the top between the sheeve and the top of the masthead casting. Another thing that you can do to help is to replace the original masthead sheaves with the ball bearing once from Garhauer.

 

[gfcng]

Thanks all. This forum is a great asset and I appreciate all responses.
I've done most of the obvious steps above- loosened main sheet, vang, dry lubed the track, sighted with binocs etc..
nothing helped and nothing obviously wrong. I'll change out the halyard and report back.

Cheers!

 

[captcoho]

I have a 1988 C30 tall and I need to use the winch for the last 3-4 feet but the ST16 handles it ok. Oversizing the halyards beyond 3/8" is a known problem because not only are the sheaves sized for 3/8" but there is very little clearance over the top between the sheeve and the top of the masthead casting. Another thing that you can do to help is to replace the original masthead sheaves with the ball bearing once from Garhauer.

I replaced the masthead sheaves with sheaves from Catalina direct with bearings in them that the OEM didn't have and I can hoist the main by myself within a few inches

 

[Project_Mayhem]

To make things slide freely you must not only lubricate but clean the track and slugs. If you just lubricate it, you will still encounter resistance. For cleaning I have found that magic eraser sponges make the job much easier than a rag. You don't need to buy SailCote or other marine lubricant. I've had dry PTFE lube work just as good if not better. Prior to this task I had to use a winch to get the main up.

Practical Sailor published an article on different methods for lubricating a mast that's stepped
The Do-it-Yourself Sail Track Cleaner - Practical Sailor

 

[Sinnerman]

I have a 1984 Cat 30 Standard rig.
Full batten mainsail with heavy sail cloth material.
Standard plastic "slugs" for the sail track in mast.
My sail goes up & down smoothly. It literally drops to deck when I release the halyard.
However, I do have to use the winch to hoist it to the masthead due to the weight of the sail.

As others mentioned, check for damaged (chewed up) slugs. Also make sure the slugs are the correct ones for your mast (Not too thick).

If you have an extra slug you can attaching it to the halyard with a 50ft line attached to the bottom so you can pull it back down. Try hoisting it to the masthead to see if / where it binds.

You can do the same without the slug: Attached a line to see if the oversized halyard is the problem..

If you like heights, you could go up the mast and clean / lubricate the track. If no, you can get a rigger to come do it.

I cleaned the track when I had the mast down running a slug to find spots where it would bind. Basically it was cause by paint in the tracks from when they painted the mast.

cheers

 

[Hayden Watson]

I helped @PepperW get their main set up for reefing last week and on their '79 with external halyards and a mast winch, I was easily able to hoist the sail all the way to within 6" of the top by hand. Then a quick couple of cranks on the winch and it was done. So jealous. With just the two sheaves at the top, it was a piece of cake. On my Mk2 with a painted mast, non-ball bearing mast base exit block and the turning block on deck there is a lot of friction to overcome.

 

[Ward H]

I helped @PepperW get their main set up for reefing last week and on their '79 with external halyards and a mast winch, I was easily able to hoist the sail all the way to within 6" of the top by hand. Then a quick couple of cranks on the winch and it was done. So jealous. With just the two sheaves at the top, it was a piece of cake. On my Mk2 with a painted mast, non-ball bearing mast base exit block and the turning block on deck there is a lot of friction to overcome.

I’ve always thought the mast exit block added the most friction to turn the halyards towards the cockpit. No BBs and small sheaves add up to a lot of friction. At least the deck turning block has larger sheaves with BBs. I often have wondered if adding a mast exit plate for the main halyard and a 2 or 2.5” sheave BB block at the mast base would be a better way to go than the current mast exit block.

 

[jssailem]

Ward, I suspect your idea would be helpful. I sense the builders looked at running lines back to the cockpit as an extraneous fancy exercise. The engineering selection for such a system was not extensive as cheap blocks seem to prevail on many boats. Complexity of turning the lines to get around dodgers and needed ports or vents only adds to the friction.

Everything you can do to give the lines a fair lead will help.

 

[Sinnerman]

From Ward H: "...I’ve always thought the mast exit block added the most friction to turn the halyards towards the cockpit. No BBs and small sheaves add up to a lot of friction. At least the deck turning block has larger sheaves with BBs. I often have wondered if adding a mast exit plate for the main halyard and a 2 or 2.5” sheave BB block at the mast base would be a better way to go than the current mast exit block. ..."

I also would prefer this setup to my current one of having the halyards exiting the base of the mast through a block at 90 degrees .

It has less friction and gives you the option of jumping the halyards at the mast.

There is a YouTuber Christian Williams who sails Erickson's. His boat has this setup.
The halyard exits the mast about six feet above the deck then is led aft to the cockpit/winch through a BB turning bock.
He added a "jam cleat" (clam cleat?) to the mast about 2-3 feet below where the halyards exit the mast.
He raises the sail then jams the halyard in the cleat and walks back to the cockpit.
When he winches in from the cockpit the line pops out of the cleat and he now controls the line from the cockpit.

l like his videos. He is a retired screen writer (Hill Street Blues TV show..)
He also has some books which are fun reads.

https://www.youtube.com/@ChristianWilliamsYachting

Cheers

 

[Hayden Watson]

From Ward H: "...I’ve always thought the mast exit block added the most friction to turn the halyards towards the cockpit. No BBs and small sheaves add up to a lot of friction. At least the deck turning block has larger sheaves with BBs. I often have wondered if adding a mast exit plate for the main halyard and a 2 or 2.5” sheave BB block at the mast base would be a better way to go than the current mast exit block. ..."

I also would prefer this setup to my current one of having the halyards exiting the base of the mast through a block at 90 degrees .

It has less friction and gives you the option of jumping the halyards at the mast.

There is a YouTuber Christian Williams who sails Erickson's. His boat has this setup.
The halyard exits the mast about six feet above the deck then is led aft to the cockpit/winch through a BB turning bock.
He added a "jam cleat" (clam cleat?) to the mast about 2-3 feet below where the halyards exit the mast.
He raises the sail then jams the halyard in the cleat and walks back to the cockpit.
When he winches in from the cockpit the line pops out of the cleat and he now controls the line from the cockpit.

l like his videos. He is a retired screen writer (Hill Street Blues TV show..)
He also has some books which are fun reads.

https://www.youtube.com/@ChristianWilliamsYachting

Cheers

I have already done this with my spinnaker, and it works great. Just need to bite the bullet and do it to the main as well.

 

[Siamese]

Of course, the hoisting difficulty is a result of friction somewhere in the system. Maybe in multiple locations.

The easy locations to check are the best place to begin. The turning block at the base of the mast, and the sail track.

The sheaves are not readily accessible, but consider that they are plastic and exposed to a lot of UV. They lead a tough life, and can crack and turn to dust. So, try fixing the easy stuff, but a trip up the mast is in order if you still have friction issues. Agree with previous poster that the ball-bearing sheaves are the way to go.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Of course, the hoisting difficulty is a result of friction somewhere in the system. Maybe in multiple locations.

The easy locations to check are the best place to begin. The turning block at the base of the mast, and the sail track.

The sheaves are not readily accessible, but consider that they are plastic and exposed to a lot of UV. They lead a tough life, and can crack and turn to dust. So, try fixing the easy stuff, but a trip up the mast is in order if you still have friction issues. Agree with previous poster that the ball-bearing sheaves are the way to go.

On my Mk2, the masthead sheaves are Garhauer ball bearing blocks that were replaced about 10-years ago so I think they are good. The crappy blocks in the system, like Ward said are the small diameter bushing type exit blocks at the base of the mast. I have been looking for a better exit block for mast base for years but have never seen anything other than this. I replaced them on both sides but it did not help any. I know that this is the primary source of friction because if I pull the line directly from this block, it is still a hard haul.
I just need to bite the bullet and install another exit plate and cleat like I did for the spinnaker. I will probably use the clam cleat like Christian Williams has because the spinnaker clutch like I have on the spinnaker is no longer sold and the clam would be less likely to hang up when I transfer to the cabin top winch.