Diesel woes

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 26, 2008
6,251
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I have to admit that Maine Sail put me to shame with his list of diesel maintenance projects. I had my Yanmar 1GM out this winter to install motor mounts, rebuild tranny and install PSS. I coulda, shoulda, woulda done a whole lot more and I wish I was jogged into action by seeing that list earlier than when I had the engine back in place. The yard put the engine back in place and connected all hoses and linkages. Last year, the engine was running like a top with rpms at 3200 or better in neutral with no load and able to idle without problem almost immediately after starting, so I was too complacent.

Starting up this year, I had only 2600 rpm in neutral after sputtering at a high of just 2800, excessive black smoke, sputtering and kill in idle until warmed up for several minutes, and high temp alarm with weak water flow in the exhaust. So I've begun to methodically look at all the components (now that it is far more difficult to gain access :redface:). I removed and cleaned the mixing elbow, replaced primary and secondary filters, and replaced the impeller, and scrubbed out the wax buildup on the fuel vent cover as best I could. This brought immediate improvement but still not up to par. Exhaust is significantly better and no problems with high temp. RPMs improved but only marginally to about 2800 (no load) with steady running, but it still sputters at high throttle with black smoke, and the engine will not idle well until warmed up. It wants to kill if I put it in gear and keep the throttle low and there is black smoke as it struggles to chug along.

I have concern about air flow and ventilation so crawled back in the stbd quarter berth to remove the rear bulkhead and gain access to the vent hose. I figured that if I remove the end from the cover, I should be able to blow through it with little resistence. No good, could not blow any air through it. So I thought about talking the fuel filler cap off to provide ventilation (it wasn't until I was driving home that I realized I might have been trying to blow air into a closed system - I'm not a natural mechanic - so I intend to try again this morning with the cap off). I also took the intake silencer off and find that there is no air filter! The silencer cover is grungy with oil residue so I took it home for cleaning and to find the right air filter. So now I start the engine up to see whats what.

Starting up is when my excitement began. I was encouraged because it seemed to run a bit better and warm up more easily, so I thought why not take it for a quick spin. I cast off the mooring and started moving, only to take a quick look below and find diesel fuel dripping into the bilge. It was a good thing I looked early! I cut the engine quickly and had a light wind causing me to drift away from the mooring out toward the lake. It turns out the secondary filter body had loosened from vibration during earlier running ... I thought 'hand-tight' was supposed to be sufficient. So I tightened the filter and mopped up the bilge as best I could (luckily I had many rags on hand). Then I bled the lines at the filter and at the injection pump, only to feel the nut give when I tightened it at the pump. Pissed off because I had been warned of this issue, I looked at the nut and found it mangled. Now I figure it's going to be a mess starting the engine up to get back to the mooring, but it's dinner time and somebody else is going to be pissed off if I'm making sail to get to the mooring. So I plug the nut back in as best I can and I leave the companion way steps off figuring it's easier to mop up the sole than cleaning fuel out of the bilge since the spray is straight out into the cabin. I cut the engine about a hundred feet from the mooring and drift to it and the mess isn't too bad, so I mop up again.

I am wanting to get access to the tank and either clean it or remove it. Access is very difficult as I had to squeeze into the port lazerette and attempt to remove a bulkhead. After struggling to remove about 8 screws, I find that the board is wedged in so it can't be removed anyway unless I cut it in half, which I am trying to figure out how to do now. I'm wondering if I can pump out fuel through the filler. I filled it up at the end of last season with diesel from a local gas station ... the tank is only about 5 or 6 gallons and I normally only use about that much (1 fill-up) each season. I also intend to now replace all the rubber fuel lines (now instead of when access was easy! :redface:)

For those of you who have made it this far ... Thanks for listening and all comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
 

Bob J.

.
Apr 14, 2009
774
Sabre 28 NH
I would start by replacing all the fuel fiters, the bleed nut & dumping a bottle of diesel treatment (911) from an auto parts store or a truck stop if they carry it in your part of the country. The only thing that makes diesel seperate in to wax is the cold so it's always a good to treat your fuel before you put the boat up for the winter. Diesel fuel treatment really does protect your system. If your rubber fuel lines are old, they could be collapsing or cracked & this leads to very minor leaking but more importantly the sucking of air which could explain your rough idle & loss of power.

As far as cutting the bulkhead in 1/2, I wouldn't do it unless it was a last resort. They provide structural support for the deck & outer hull.

Bob
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,251
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I was considering a switch-out of the primary filter. It is a Fram filter and if there is a distinction between an ordinary filter and a water separator/filter, then I'm sure what I have is just an ordinary filter. I figured that changing it to a Racor would be the thing to do and I will look into the best one for my boat.

It's not really a bulkhead that provides structural support, it's merely an unfinished plywood board screwed into place with 8 #10 screws that provides separation between the lazerette and the area below the cockpit where the steering mechanics and the fuel tank resides. It's loose right now, there just isn't more than a few inches of relief in the critical areas where I need to slide it out no matter which way I try to wiggle it. It looks like there is a sort of free standing fiberglass stanchion in place to screw it to, which keeps me from sliding it enough toward the stern. I don't want to cut the stanchion because I'll want it in place for reattachment!

I have to get access to do some maintenance on my steering as well so cutting it is really the only option and not something I'm concerned about other than getting the right tool to make the cut at the edges without damaging the structural components. It looks like it was screwed in place before the deck was installed and I'll bet nothing under there has ever been inspected during the entire lifespan of the boat. It is surpisingly dry inside the lazerette and under the cockpit and there are no signs that moisture has ever penetrated that area as evidenced by the condition of the wood that is in place. That is one encouraging sign!
 
Sep 25, 2008
544
Bristol 43.3 Perth Amboy
Pumping out your tank

It is possible to pump out your tank from the fill fitting on the tank or the hose if it is a straight shot.
 
Jun 26, 2007
106
Freedom F39 Lyttelton New Zealand
Re Diesel Woes

but it still sputters at high throttle with black smoke, and the engine will not idle well until warmed up. It wants to kill if I put it in gear and keep the throttle low and there is black smoke as it struggles to chug along.
Given the other checks you have made re blocked exhaust elbow etc, this sounds like a fuel atomisation problem. It is relatively simple to remove the injector and take it to your local diesel injection service expert to have it serviced. And it should not be too expensive to do. We had a 2GM with a similar problem, loads of black smoke and no power, and that fixed it.
What can happen if you continue to run the engine in this condition is the unburnt fuel in the cylinder will wash the lube oil off the cylinder bore, leading to excessive wear causing loss of compression. Dilution of the lube oil is another possibility. If you leave it too long a full overhaul will be required. A stitch in time.... Regards
 
Last edited:

Ashton

.
Jun 26, 2009
4
Oday 26 Leesburg
If you are going to change the hoses. Change them with clear hose, so you can see the fuel flow and any air or debris. Always keep it simple fuel and air supply check first.
If the fuel is waxy you will see flakes in the fuel line and the filter will get plugged. Saw the filter in half if you want to check it for plugging. Look for bubbles in the return line back to the tank. There should be none whatsoever! Air can only get into the fuel system on the suction side of pump. Unless bad injector possibly. Can even be a cracked dip tube in the fuel tank if you can't find problem. Also something in the fuel tank going up against the suction tube. If there was no air filter you know it is not a air problem. I have never had a boat with an air filter, not really a dust environment.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,251
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Running great now!

I'm not sure what I did to solve the problem but it sure runs clean and strong now! :) I think, Mike, that you are right that it was an atomization problem. There is a bleed screw at the fuel line distributor to the injection pump that my manuel didn't say anything about. I noticed it before when I had to bleed it to get the engine started. At that time, it would only bleed when pumping manually. Yesterday morning when I went over to pull out the bleed screw that I previously mangled, I noticed that fuel was leaking profusely as soon as I pulled the screw out. I had to plug in a good screw immediately (and good thing I had it ready) to keep the fuel from leaking badly. There must have been something restricting flow at the injection pump (and maybe it was just air that had not fully bled out) that is cleared up now. Now I'm getting better than 3600 rpms under no load and no black smoke at any position of throttle while under power. I'd venture to say that the engine has not run better than this since we've had her.

The only thing I did right before changing the bleed screw was try again to check my fuel vent for blockage so I pulled off the filler cap, crawled back in the quarter berth and blew thru the vent hose. No resistance! When I went back to the cockpit, I noticed a sheen from fuel in the water, which caused me to panic a little, not knowing where it came from, until I saw the telltale signs around the fill cap. I guess my tank is filled!

Two things that I've noticed ... the bleed screws are now different, and the air filter I bought will not fit until I cut it down to size. The old bleed screws had a hollow shaft with a hole to allow bleeding without removing the screw (this is the reason it is easy to mangle the screw by overtightening as I did). The new screws that I bought simply have a groove cut in the thread and shaft about half way up the shaft so that when you unscrew it the exposed groove allows some bleeding. The air filter I bought (spec'd for my engine) is shaped like a cone but it seems to be about an inch too long. It seems that I have to cut about an inch off the narrow end to get the proper fit inside the intake silencer ... does this sound right?
 
Jun 26, 2007
106
Freedom F39 Lyttelton New Zealand
Sounds like it might be the wrong part and of course the strict rule is that the engine air intake must have a properly fitting filter. Even a small gap or hole will let any dust through. Having said that, the typical marine environment in which your engine operates is usually somewhat less dusty than the enviroment in which industrial, automotive or agricultural diesels operate. I note on my 3HM and 2GM (past engines) that the airfilter was a pretty poor arrangement and I wouldn't trust it in a dusty environment, but it was obviously considered adequate. So in your situation it would be nice to have the filter fit properly, but I wouldn't be losing any sleep over it. Best wishes for the 4th.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.