Diesel vs. gas

sailaway78 · Feb 26, 2009

Most prefer diesel

Most modern sailboats use diesel power, and most prefer it. Diesel is far less an explosive fuel than gas, should you develop a fuel leak. Diesels have the reputation of much longer life, and there is no ignition to give problems. That being said, there are many happy owners of Atomic4's out there. If it is affordable I would certainly recommend the diesel.

Stu Jackson · Feb 26, 2009

Diesel also gives you about twice

the range.

Roger Long · Feb 26, 2009

The dangers of gasoline on boats are greatly over....

CalebD · Feb 26, 2009

Diesel would be best for the above reasons. That said, I have an A4 in my boat and it is 40 years old and still running well.
The best place for all things A4 is: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/index.php
Gas is safe as long as you are careful.

sailingdog · Feb 26, 2009

Well, getting a diesel would make dealing with what is in the fuel tank simpler.

Is the fuel tank plumbed for both pickup and return fuel lines already?

bffatcat · Feb 26, 2009

Diesel vs Gas

This subject has been discussed many times on this board. As mentioned in previous posts
I owned 2 boats with gas inboards and wound up using both of them for moorings. An atomic 4 has an updraft carburetor. U get one splash of salt water on that carburetor and
the atomic 4 is not gonna start. Avoid it unless your a top notch ignition man. Unfortunately a new diesel installed today is probably gonna cost double what the boat is worth. Try to find
a used one. Gas inboards in sailboats are not dependable. They usually dont start after you have been out in a breeze all day and need the engine to get you down a channel. This is why they were discarded as original equipment over 30 years ago

Ross · Feb 26, 2009

Re: Diesel vs Gas

This brings us to another question. How much is it worth to learn to install a new and different engine and its accessories in a boat? When last I checked a new Beta Marine engine less than 20 hp cost about 8,000 dollars. I installed my Volvo engine, drive train, fuel and water and electrical system in about two weeks including the new stringers for the engine.

Isn't it worth while to get the education necessary to make this a DIY job? Sometimes I can make 2000 dollars per week but not regularly. I had the time, tools and experience to do the job but I rather doubt that many people here have the money to blithly turn the job over to others. Therefore isn't a few months of study at a local Vo-Tech worth the investment in time and money?

Steve Dion · Feb 26, 2009

There is absolutely no reason to buy a gas engine other than the installed price. You can be looking at something like $6500 for the engine plus installation and part (shaft, prop, mounts etc. It would not be suprising to spend $12k for a diesel.

Diesel is absolutely the better choice if cost is NOT an issue.

Hermit Scott · Feb 27, 2009

One teaspoon of gasoline in vapor form in a 55 gallon drum is the optimum conditions for maximum explosive power. Just thought I'd tell you in case you wanted to make your boat a bomb. Anyway, almost everyone on here with a 28' boat or longer has propane plumbed directly into their galley. After careful consideration, I don't want propane in the galley at this point. I've blown the top off of a grill once, so maybe I am not qualified to light one in a boat. (Don't want to be the next recepient of the Darwin Award).
There are plenty of used diesels on craigs list, there was one on here for $1200 in the gear section. Depending on what parts you are starting out with, $1200 may be the smaller fraction of the price just in parts. For instance, check the price on motor mounts.

BobM · Feb 27, 2009

I should think that you could find someone else repowering who is willing to almost give you an Atomic 4. How much is the person asking for it? Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to repower with one if I had bought a boat sans engine and was trying to get on the water on the very cheap. You certainly won't lack for power, even in a 32 footer. Parts availability from Moyer is good and their prices are fair.

The boat market is interesting. Re-powering with an Atomic 4 will definitely affect resale. People pay more for a diesel. Sometimes twice as much if it is newer. However, people won't pay much more if the boat is badly underpowered...so don't put a 1 cyl or even a very small 2 cyl in if you are trying either maximize value or build something to keep for the long haul. When I bought my boat I shopped around and found that diesel powered 9.2A prices ranged from $15,000 for a 12hp 1 cyl to nearly $30,000 for boat recently repowered 3 cyl. Older models with A4's were as low as $10,0000 to give you some idea of the impact. I ended up in the middle with a boat with its original 2 cyl Yanmar 14-15hp diesel. Some would probably even repower my boat at this point, so I am surprised how much value it adds to even have an older, but still sound, diesel on board. From that perspective, a used diesel might maximize the boats value, if you can find one, but I would probably look for 20+hp for that boat.

Another plus for the Atomic 4 is that a do-it yourself rebuild of an atomic 4 will likely be more forgiving as high compression diesels are tougher to rebuild for an amateur, from what I can glean. Moyer has an electronic ignition update that make the A4 more dependable too. I suggest you check their site or call them with details on the specific engine. There were a few versions of the A4, from what I recall, and they can tell you the pluses and minuses of that particular year.

Be forewarned...this is NOT and inexpensive hobby. It is more of an addiction. For years the cheapest part for me was my boat (prior to this one). I paid a $1000 for the boat but $1500 a year for winter storage.

sailingdog · Feb 27, 2009

Just remember, if the boat was diesel previously, and you're going with a gasoline-powered engine, you have to add a bilge blower. A fume detector wouldn't be a bad idea either. In either case, a CO detector is also a good idea.

Eddie7045 · Feb 27, 2009

Sean, there is no good reason for putting a

gasoline engine in, period , the end.

Hermit Scott · Feb 27, 2009

I have to disagree with the statement that a diesel is harder to rebuild becasue of high compression. They look a little weird on the outside but they are not much more different than a lawnmower engine. The fuel injector system is the only thing that is different at all, but you won't have to deal with any electrical timing or ignition or a carburator. Now that I have rebuilt both a diesel and many gasoline engines, I would prefer a diesel.
I was intimidated at first because diesels were mystical to me.
My diesel is so simple, there is not even a glow plug.
The injection system is, a cam on a shaft driving an injector that squirts fuel through an injector nozzel. How much simpler could you get?

Stu Jackson · Feb 27, 2009

Good thoughts, Hermit

and besides, when they're not running, they both have parts that aren't moving and can be worked on!

Steve Dion · Feb 27, 2009

I really do not think that resale value on a 1977 Columbia 32 is really an issue here. The guy needs an engine for his boat and cost must be a factor.

There are still many thousands of sailboats that are running with gas engines. While we all know it is NOT the fuel of choice it served many of the manufacturers well for many years. There is nothing wrong with gasoline if you treat it with respect. While we "arguing" the virtues of gasoline on the boat, I guess you should discuss the virtues of having propane aboard.

Ross · Feb 27, 2009

Steve Dion said:
I really do not think that resale value on a 1977 Columbia 32 is really an issue here. The guy needs an engine for his boat and cost must be a factor.

There are still many thousands of sailboats that are running with gas engines. While we all know it is NOT the fuel of choice it served many of the manufacturers well for many years. There is nothing wrong with gasoline if you treat it with respect. While we "arguing" the virtues of gasoline on the boat, I guess you should discuss the virtues of having propane aboard.

When a fuel and a fire are controlled there is no problem . I have a 3/4 inch natural gas line coming into my house from the street. I have seen homes that had all of the bricks blown off the outside from a gas explosion. I have been driving gasoline powered moter vehicles for 55 years. Tractors, farm trucks, automobiles, outboard powered boats, etc. As long as the fuel was controlled there has never been a problem. I can't remember when we didn't have propane or natural gas for heat and cooking. I have had friends that nearly died from carbon monoxide poisoning in a coal heated house, we had a family burned to death from a faulty oil heater when I was a kid. Don't rule out a fuel just because it has killed somebody. There are people here who believe that hydrogen is the fuel of the future but it is also what kept the Hindenburg aloft and what burned it up.

Hermit Scott · Feb 27, 2009

I guess a relevant question then would be; would you rather have a 30 hp gas engine or a 12-15 hp diesel?

Ross · Feb 27, 2009

Hermit Scott said:
I guess a relevant question then would be; would you rather have a 30 hp gas engine or a 12-15 hp diesel?

Hermit, That's easy!! neither engine delivers its rated HP except at hull speed. Then you must consider just how often hull speed is needed. When we are content to sail at 5-7 kts why would we demand more when motoring? Either engine will serve the purpose intended but sailing and sailboats are a method of going no place very slowly at great expense.

Jim Kolstoe · Feb 27, 2009

Actually Ross, I saw an interesting PBS Nova special a few years ago that advanced the case made by a NASA research engineer, specialzing in hydrogen fuels, that the Hindenburg disaster was largely caused by an aluminum powder based coating on the fabric skin. The coating turned out to be similar to solid rocket fuel used in later years, and a scrap of it was tested and burned vigorously on electrial ignition.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo