Hypothetical question (OK, not so much) for any with insight: I am looking at two otherwise identical, 9,000 boats. Both have been repowered with new engines - Yanmar 3GM 20HP and a Beta Marine 13.5 - which is better? More power is nice, I know, but it's also a bigger engine in the same size (very small) hole. Is there an maintenance advantage to the smaller Beta Marine? Quality issues? Dependability? Any insight would be appreciated.
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go with a Yanmar.
Drew: I would go with the Yanmar. These engines are bullet proof. Our Hunter 31 had about 1300 hrs on the engine and it had never sputtered in 19 years. They are rated at 12,000 - 15,000. The only really weak spot is the mixing elbow that costs about $125 every 4-6 years.
Drew: I would go with the Yanmar. These engines are bullet proof. Our Hunter 31 had about 1300 hrs on the engine and it had never sputtered in 19 years. They are rated at 12,000 - 15,000. The only really weak spot is the mixing elbow that costs about $125 every 4-6 years.
See the link
for some interesting info re Beta diesels. I personally think both Yanmar and Beta make decent engines. The question of 20 hp vs 13 hp may be at what rpm each engine is rated, i.e., the difference may not be as significant as it appears. Also not sure how much power you need as that depends on hull type, displacement and where you sail. To me, the primary question is how comfortable would you be doing routine owner-maintenance on either type engine, how many hours each engine had on them, and what kind of lives each engine has had. An engine that has not been maintained well or has been abused is the one I would avoid. Finally, engine type and make are only one of a number of factors you should be considering in making a boat choice. Hope this helps. PS: Don't construe this as a vote for Beta, but parts for these engines are readily available in Annapolis and, I presume, other boating centers.
for some interesting info re Beta diesels. I personally think both Yanmar and Beta make decent engines. The question of 20 hp vs 13 hp may be at what rpm each engine is rated, i.e., the difference may not be as significant as it appears. Also not sure how much power you need as that depends on hull type, displacement and where you sail. To me, the primary question is how comfortable would you be doing routine owner-maintenance on either type engine, how many hours each engine had on them, and what kind of lives each engine has had. An engine that has not been maintained well or has been abused is the one I would avoid. Finally, engine type and make are only one of a number of factors you should be considering in making a boat choice. Hope this helps. PS: Don't construe this as a vote for Beta, but parts for these engines are readily available in Annapolis and, I presume, other boating centers.
Beta is a Kubota
I would prefer Beta since it is Kubota base engine, and the make great engines. Parts for the base engine will be more widely available, nad less costly than any marine engine. Beta has a web site: http://www.betamarinenc.com/
I would prefer Beta since it is Kubota base engine, and the make great engines. Parts for the base engine will be more widely available, nad less costly than any marine engine. Beta has a web site: http://www.betamarinenc.com/
Beta for cruisers
The Beta is a kubota engine used also by John Deer, Westerbek, and the list goes on and on. You can go to just about any tractor dealer for parts, and the parts are available just about anywhere in the world. Yanmars are good engines, but parts are pricey compared to the Kubota. They are both goos engines, I chose the Kubota because I cruise and do not sit at one dock for an extended period. Fair Winds Cap'n Dave
The Beta is a kubota engine used also by John Deer, Westerbek, and the list goes on and on. You can go to just about any tractor dealer for parts, and the parts are available just about anywhere in the world. Yanmars are good engines, but parts are pricey compared to the Kubota. They are both goos engines, I chose the Kubota because I cruise and do not sit at one dock for an extended period. Fair Winds Cap'n Dave
Thanks
This is helpful. Warren - Yanmar has 5 hours on it, Beta has 36 hours - both were installed for resale of good old boats. And BTW, engine is among the last things on my list - i see it as a necessary evil, just want one that I can take care of, affordably, that runs.
This is helpful. Warren - Yanmar has 5 hours on it, Beta has 36 hours - both were installed for resale of good old boats. And BTW, engine is among the last things on my list - i see it as a necessary evil, just want one that I can take care of, affordably, that runs.
I would opt for the Yanmar since it was designed as a marine diesel. Beta, Westerbeke, Universal, etc., all are varients of the Kubota engine, which was originally a tractor engine, but 'marinized' for marine use. You will note that the non yanmar types require zincs in the heat exchanger, whereas the Yanmar doesn't - since (in part) it was intended for marine applications originally. Michael
That's silly
You wrote: Diesel Choices I would opt for the Yanmar since it was designed as a marine diesel. Beta, Westerbeke, Universal, etc., all are varients of the Kubota engine, which was originally a tractor engine, but 'marinized' for marine use. You will note that the non yanmar types require zincs in the heat exchanger, whereas the Yanmar doesn't - since (in part) it was intended for marine applications originally. Michael 1. Yanmar's first product was a diesel powered rice huller in 1921. They are a tractor engine company. Check their web site. 2. I'd like to know the secret Yanmar has discovered that exempts their heat exchangers from galvanic corrosion. Can you explain? Stay away from the Yanmar Kool-Aid.
You wrote: Diesel Choices I would opt for the Yanmar since it was designed as a marine diesel. Beta, Westerbeke, Universal, etc., all are varients of the Kubota engine, which was originally a tractor engine, but 'marinized' for marine use. You will note that the non yanmar types require zincs in the heat exchanger, whereas the Yanmar doesn't - since (in part) it was intended for marine applications originally. Michael 1. Yanmar's first product was a diesel powered rice huller in 1921. They are a tractor engine company. Check their web site. 2. I'd like to know the secret Yanmar has discovered that exempts their heat exchangers from galvanic corrosion. Can you explain? Stay away from the Yanmar Kool-Aid.
Yanmar
Great engines, now being put in almost all new Catalinas. Easy to maintain and to get parts. Also, a guide is that you need 1 HP for every 500 lbs of weight...the Yanmar is right for your boat.
Great engines, now being put in almost all new Catalinas. Easy to maintain and to get parts. Also, a guide is that you need 1 HP for every 500 lbs of weight...the Yanmar is right for your boat.
jvis, Good Points - there is a lot of "FUD"
These days all this discussion about one marine diesel Auxilary engine being better than another is really moot. Now 30 years ago I might have gone along with that concept, but not anymore. There are probably just as many marine Kubota blocks with 1000+ hours as there are Yanmars. I know literally hundreds of 20 year old Universal M25, M35, etc engines running just fine in the Catalina 36's. And thats just one boat model and Just one maker of Marine engines on the Kubota block. There are hundreds of others. What REALLY matters is how well the marine engine was installed -- to me that would be the BIGGEST concern. More deisel engines have problems from improperly designed/installed exhaust riser systems than flaws with the actual engines. How does each installation look? Which one was cleaner and neater? Was one done with a very good professional organization or was one done by a DYI "Do It Yourselfer" that cut corners All things being equal I would go for the Yanmar and extra horsepower -- 13 HP is on the lower end of the scale for a 9000 boat -- yeah its adequate, but if you are fighting huge head seas then the extra few HP might help really keep up the speed (all things being equal) 2 negatives to the Yanmar -- 1) Pain in the A%$ to bleed the fuel line & injectors -- Universal and others have "self Bleeding" fuel system (not sure about Beta Marine) 2) Yanmar doesn't have Glow Plugs (that I know of) for hard or cold weather start. PS - Bert -- Catalina still puts Universal/Westerbeke Engines in a some of their boats like the C28, C34, C36 -- A lot of the decision has to do with what kind of "deal" each deisel engine manufacturer wants to cut the Boat manufacturer when it comes to ordering engines - lots of these decisions are cost based also
These days all this discussion about one marine diesel Auxilary engine being better than another is really moot. Now 30 years ago I might have gone along with that concept, but not anymore. There are probably just as many marine Kubota blocks with 1000+ hours as there are Yanmars. I know literally hundreds of 20 year old Universal M25, M35, etc engines running just fine in the Catalina 36's. And thats just one boat model and Just one maker of Marine engines on the Kubota block. There are hundreds of others. What REALLY matters is how well the marine engine was installed -- to me that would be the BIGGEST concern. More deisel engines have problems from improperly designed/installed exhaust riser systems than flaws with the actual engines. How does each installation look? Which one was cleaner and neater? Was one done with a very good professional organization or was one done by a DYI "Do It Yourselfer" that cut corners All things being equal I would go for the Yanmar and extra horsepower -- 13 HP is on the lower end of the scale for a 9000 boat -- yeah its adequate, but if you are fighting huge head seas then the extra few HP might help really keep up the speed (all things being equal) 2 negatives to the Yanmar -- 1) Pain in the A%$ to bleed the fuel line & injectors -- Universal and others have "self Bleeding" fuel system (not sure about Beta Marine) 2) Yanmar doesn't have Glow Plugs (that I know of) for hard or cold weather start. PS - Bert -- Catalina still puts Universal/Westerbeke Engines in a some of their boats like the C28, C34, C36 -- A lot of the decision has to do with what kind of "deal" each deisel engine manufacturer wants to cut the Boat manufacturer when it comes to ordering engines - lots of these decisions are cost based also
No Zincs
No zincs in the heat exchanger as there are rubber bushings and gaskets in there that seperate the different metals making it not necessary for zincs. I was confused with this fact and was searching for zincs when I bought my new to me boat (P36-2). I am coming from a Westerbeke to a Yanmar and I must say, the Yanmar is quieter and starts easier in cold weather without glow plugs and so far has been much easier to work on.
No zincs in the heat exchanger as there are rubber bushings and gaskets in there that seperate the different metals making it not necessary for zincs. I was confused with this fact and was searching for zincs when I bought my new to me boat (P36-2). I am coming from a Westerbeke to a Yanmar and I must say, the Yanmar is quieter and starts easier in cold weather without glow plugs and so far has been much easier to work on.
With the short chop that we get
on the chesapeake bay I tend to slow down when beating to the weather. Bashing through three foot waves at hull speed tends to wash my decks more than I like. I guess that I prefer to take a conservative approach in my boating.
on the chesapeake bay I tend to slow down when beating to the weather. Bashing through three foot waves at hull speed tends to wash my decks more than I like. I guess that I prefer to take a conservative approach in my boating.
Yanmar
13.5 is a little underpowered for 9000 lb. boat. Yanmars are great engines and would be my choice.
13.5 is a little underpowered for 9000 lb. boat. Yanmars are great engines and would be my choice.
Thanks all
for the input. I'll probably end up in the "really doesn't matter" camp, all things equal. Will make sure the installation was done right.
for the input. I'll probably end up in the "really doesn't matter" camp, all things equal. Will make sure the installation was done right.
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