diesel additives

[Terry in Naples]

Yesterday at the Ft Myers Boat show i spent some time talking to a dealer in a new technology device that magnetically cleans diesel fues as it passes through a series of magnets in a little cylinder that is inserted in the furel line. He claims to be a physicist and chemist that spent years working for a company that made systems to clean diesel fuel for large ships. He told me a lot about the additives i am adding to my fuel.
First he said stop using bio Guard as it is just boric acid soilution that reacts with water and microbes in the fuel to form those little brown granual type grains that you find in the bottom of the sample you take from the Racor. He also said the other additives are a waste of money if one is using the engine on a regualr basis. By that he said using it once every few weeks.
He also said if I was using the motor and enough fule I had no need of his product. His just chemically removed the "stuff" in the fuel that collects after the fuel settles or stands for months at a time.
This seemed to make sense to me. I have been adding cetal diesel boost, water absorber, bio diesel etc.

 

[Chuckbear]

Terry, What would you expect a sales that is trying to sell you a device that has no science behind it, uses a phony smoke and mirror display to make you think it is cleaning anything, and wants you to buy his expensive product instead of additives that might have some value at a fraction of the cost. The Biobor does cause the little grains you get in your filter but not from any reaction to your diesel fuel. It is doing its job and the granules you see are the dead bodies from the bugs the Biobor is killing. Save your money, keep using your additives, and take anything a salesman at a boat show tells you with a great deal of skepticism. Chuck

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people can knowingly lie so blatantly to make a buck. Run away from these magic magnetic filters which are all crap, add bio additives as needed and a cetane booster and keep your fuel as fresh as practicable and by all means keep your money.
Next time you see one of these jerks trying to cheat unsuspecting people, call him what he is.

 

[Ron McCoy]

Terry in Naples. The product I believe you're talking about is the Algae-X fuel conditioner. According to their product it does the following;
Diesel fuel is naturally unstable. Its quality and chemistry are continuously degraded by transportation & storage from refinery to user, oxidation, heat & pressure of engines, pumps & injectors, and by water & microbial contamination.
This continuous process affects combustion and engine performance causing loss of power, excessive fuel consumption, smoking engines, damage to injection systems. Eventually, filters clog and sludge (algae, gum, tar, varnish, wax, etc.) accumulates in fuel storage tanks.
ALGAE-X® Technology reverses the degradation process, optimizing diesel fuel quality by reducing the size & mass of fuel droplets.

I was skeptical too, at first. But read some of what Racor filters is doing with them. They're putting together complete fuel cleaning systems using Algae-X. Furthermore, Catipillar diesel is installing Algae-X on all new heavy equipment/trucks/etc. they're manufacturering. I'm no chemist or physicist, but if these two reputuable companies see the benefit in "polishing" diesel fuel, I'm all for it. I put one on my Yanmar fuel filteration system (just ahead of my Racor 500MA filter). I've never have any problem with dirty fuel and there's never any sediment in the filter bowl.
Who cares how it works if the results are always positive.

 

[Chuckbear]

Just because Racor has cozied up to Algae-X does not mean they work. Racor is no longer owned by Racor. They will sell you a fuel polishing system with as much "crap" attached as they can to up the price and make you feel like you are really getting something. You can build your own polishing system for a fraction of the cost. If you have Algae-X and are not having any problems it is NOT because of the Algae-X. You will have the same results if you take it off. Caterpillars use is by no means a testament to the product. It just means they have come to a marketing agreement. These are all the wrong reason to purchase a piece of equipment and install it on your boat. Sorry but I have been in this industry for over 35 years and seen too many boat owners get ripped off and this is one of the biggest, longest lasting ripoffs of them all. Chuck

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

To beat this the a complete death (hopefully), the Algae X et al combine their ludicrous magnetic technology with a filter (typically Racor) and pump fuel through both = I'll leave it to anyone still reading to devine which is the active element in cleaning the fuel.

All one need do is take a careful look behind their nifty boat show demo wall to see they are pumping two different colored liquid samples through the display.

As W.C. Fields once said, ...

 

[Dan Johnson]

When I redid my fuel system...

I pulled one of these magnetic devices off the boat that a PO had installed. I had to ask myself, "What is magnetic in diesel fuel that this thing could be affecting?" Didn't take me long to figure it out and remove it. When opened up, it was full of the same gunk from my tank that was getting to my Racor. Seemed to have no effect at all.

 

[Steve Dion]

Just because Racor has cozied up to Algae-X does not mean they work. Racor is no longer owned by Racor. They will sell you a fuel polishing system with as much "crap" attached as they can to up the price and make you feel like you are really getting something. You can build your own polishing system for a fraction of the cost. If you have Algae-X and are not having any problems it is NOT because of the Algae-X. You will have the same results if you take it off. Caterpillars use is by no means a testament to the product. It just means they have come to a marketing agreement. These are all the wrong reason to purchase a piece of equipment and install it on your boat. Sorry but I have been in this industry for over 35 years and seen too many boat owners get ripped off and this is one of the biggest, longest lasting ripoffs of them all. Chuck

Chuck:

Racor is owned by Parker. How long ago did they sell out? Hell Racor/Parker may own Algae-x too!

 

[Don Crowther]

Smoke and Mirrors
Just a lot of Smoke and Mirrors
IMHO

Don

 

[catsailor]

Amusing.

Yesterday at the Ft Myers Boat show i spent some time talking to a dealer in a new technology device that magnetically cleans diesel fues as it passes through a series of magnets in a little cylinder that is inserted in the furel line. He claims to be a physicist and chemist that spent years working for a company that made systems to clean diesel fuel for large ships. He told me a lot about the additives i am adding to my fuel.
First he said stop using bio Guard as it is just boric acid soilution that reacts with water and microbes in the fuel to form those little brown granual type grains that you find in the bottom of the sample you take from the Racor. He also said the other additives are a waste of money if one is using the engine on a regualr basis. By that he said using it once every few weeks.
He also said if I was using the motor and enough fule I had no need of his product. His just chemically removed the "stuff" in the fuel that collects after the fuel settles or stands for months at a time.
This seemed to make sense to me. I have been adding cetal diesel boost, water absorber, bio diesel etc.

Others cover the obvious sham aspects well. Funny that magnets aren't deadly to people or useful for sterilizing anything....

As for the boric acid comment, he is either lying or ignorant. I suspect both. The active ingredient in Biobore is a mixture of complex borinanes. Rather like saying diesel fuel is basically coal. The granules are probably corrosion products or waxes and have no relationship.

But Bio-Guard (Valvetech) is a morpholine based product - no boron - so he does even have his pseudo science right. Very differnt from Biobor, with different properties.

I have tested these sort of biocides both in my work (refining) and in an artical I wrote on the subject fora sailing magazine. Nothing that he said makes sense or is observed in practice.

Morpholine type: http://www.powerservice.com/msds/pdf/bk_msds.pdf
Borinane type: http://www.hammondscos.com/content/downloads/BIOBOR_JF_MSDS.PDF

As for Cat, I am embarrassed for their marketing department. I assure you, it is not the engineering department. Those guys are no-nonsense.


Amusing.

 

[Larry14133]

Just another way to seperate you from your money. Twenty years ago they clammed if you purchased there special magnets and placed them on your fuel lines you would get better mileage. This only worked with the special Magnets. :.)

 

[Bill Roosa]

No Larry, really strong magnets

You know, the kind that you can only get from them. I'm not surprised that all you all don't know of the "almost magical" properties of really strong magnets that you can only get from them. Most people have never run into a magnet as strong as this one. Heck when was the last time you saw a 10 Tesla magnet? It is so strong it can suck the nuclear dust off the electrons. (That makes them more slippery and helps the injectors BTW). And if additives are so great why are fuel filters still getting clogged after using them. No magnets are the way to go cause magnets "almost magically" remove the bad stuff but NEVER need cleaning. Heck with this product you will "almost never" have to (OK once a year, to be safe you know) have to clean your fuel filter.

Now over here we have the 200 MPG fuel enjector, it uses magnets too....

 

[BobM]

Re: No Larry, really strong magnets

Typically the only time people run into a magnet strong enough to do anything meaningful on a molecular level is when they have an MRI.

Those guys should be blocked from boat shows. They wouldn't let someone in there selling Brooklyn Bridges would they?

 

[BobM]

Re: No Larry, really strong magnets

By the way, Algae-X appears to be a legitimate fuel filtering, polishing and treatment company for the most part. I didn't see any mention of magnets on their site, although the description of their "Fuel Conditioner" matches some of the lines posted.

It is abject BS (to my knowledge...and I survived two semesters of Physical Chemistry and have learned...and forgotten..a lot about forces at the molecular level) to say that any inline device 'impacts the size of fuel droplets emitted from an injector' after it has been filtered by your Racor. There is a notable lack of information supporing this claim on their site. Most of the other stuff on their site is legit though.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html is entertaining and covers most of the magnet scams.

This is just a new spin on magnetic fuel treatment now that the "improved fuel mileage" claim is thoroughly debunked. I can't believe people will pay $169 (found on one site) for the smallest unit they sell...plus they even list industrial sized units!

If I had time I'd send this to the Attorney General, just for fun.

 

[sailingdog]

Unfortunately, too many people fall for fake bs like this...and that's why such companies can stay in business..

 

[Buck420]

My 2 Cents

By the way, Algae-X appears to be a legitimate fuel filtering, polishing and treatment company for the most part. I didn't see any mention of magnets on their site, although the description of their "Fuel Conditioner" matches some of the lines posted.

It is abject BS (to my knowledge...and I survived two semesters of Physical Chemistry and have learned...and forgotten..a lot about forces at the molecular level) to say that any inline device 'impacts the size of fuel droplets emitted from an injector' after it has been filtered by your Racor. There is a notable lack of information supporing this claim on their site. Most of the other stuff on their site is legit though.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html is entertaining and covers most of the magnet scams.

This is just a new spin on magnetic fuel treatment now that the "improved fuel mileage" claim is thoroughly debunked. I can't believe people will pay $169 (found on one site) for the smallest unit they sell...plus they even list industrial sized units!

If I had time I'd send this to the Attorney General, just for fun.

I, too, survived Physical Chemistry to get a BS in Chemistry (TOO many years ago).
And, 10 years ago, I, too, was introduced to the Algae-X fuel "polisher". At that time, the company claimed that it's inline (magnetic) device interfeared w/ microbial metabolism thereby reducing microbial contamination in diesel fuel.
I decided to install one in my (then) new H420. In the ensuing 9 years I have routinely used FPPF fuel additive products ( including their biocide, "Killem", cetain booster, etc).
And what has my experience been ?
Well, I have not seemed to have gotten any accumulation of microbial growth in my fuel tank.
However, I have had problems w/ tan water sludge somehow building up in the tank and Racor(s). I have on two occasions pumped this watery sludge off the bottom of my tank (2004 about 1.5 gals, and 2008 about 3/4 gal), after it became an ongoing problem draining it from the Racor(s).
Do I think the Algae-X has done any good? .. Well, since I have been using "Killem" regularly, it's impossible to tell.
Does it do any harm?? I doubt it, but again, it's impossible to tell.
Would I buy another "Algae-X" ? Probably not.

 

[zeehag]

magnets are bad for boats lol...messes up compass....i use a biocide with very goood results--if it dont be broke---why fix it.......

 

[Chuckbear]

magnets are bad for boats lol...messes up compass....i use a biocide with very goood results--if it dont be broke---why fix it.......

I would hope fuel polishing systems and fuel filters are no where near the compass . Chuck

 

[zeehag]

a goood fuel polishing system is a series of pumps and filters and needs no magnets..keep it simple.

 

[Sailm8]

Am I dating myself or does anyone else remember "cow magnets" for increased MPG.