It's got me stumped: My First 235 is sitting on the hard, and every time it rains, there's a half gallon of water sitting in the bilge, under the table sole. Doesn't sem to be coming in the ports/windows, hatch cover, mast step, anchor locker or cockpit drains. Can the ribs that run fore and aft (under the front face of the benches) be the carriers? From where? The hole through the port rib that passes the port sidestay grounding strap is always wet, although that's also the path that water would take if it came down the port inside hull. Help! I'm really stuck on this one. Deck fittings don't seem to be the cause either, since it's not wet inside the cabin ceiling. Maybe the aluminum toe rail/deck-to-hull flanges leaking? Jib car rails? Other places to look? Does anyone know how the deck flange is turned? Can it leak? Any other clues on where to look? I don't have a hose nearby, so it's pretty hard to do a running water test. Michael J Kansas City
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Dan
jib tracks
I currently have the headliners out of my 235 and there are several bolts holding the jib car tracks to the deck. If the bedding was bad I would think that the leaking water might run behind the upper headliner but I'm not sure if it would get behind the sidepiece of the liner without leaking onto the shelf and galley counter under there. I will try to take a look at the hull to deck joint from the inside next time I am inside the boat and maybe try to get a picture for you if you would like. Dan
I currently have the headliners out of my 235 and there are several bolts holding the jib car tracks to the deck. If the bedding was bad I would think that the leaking water might run behind the upper headliner but I'm not sure if it would get behind the sidepiece of the liner without leaking onto the shelf and galley counter under there. I will try to take a look at the hull to deck joint from the inside next time I am inside the boat and maybe try to get a picture for you if you would like. Dan
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Michael J
Jib tracks are a long way from the bilge...
Thanks, Dan. Haven't seen any direct path, or downward leaking from there, but it's certainly a possibility. By the way, I have headliner coming down too. What's the best way to re-adhesive, after the foam is scraped away? Understand that the foam holds the vinyl off the nuts/bolt heads, for a smoother look. Ideas or pointers on where to go, short of pulling it all out and going w/ carpet? Thanks again. - mj
Thanks, Dan. Haven't seen any direct path, or downward leaking from there, but it's certainly a possibility. By the way, I have headliner coming down too. What's the best way to re-adhesive, after the foam is scraped away? Understand that the foam holds the vinyl off the nuts/bolt heads, for a smoother look. Ideas or pointers on where to go, short of pulling it all out and going w/ carpet? Thanks again. - mj
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Steve C
Headliner woos
I too had the headliner pulling away with the foam disinagrating. It was just pulling away at the top, so I didn't want to pull it all down and redo the whole thing. I tried scraping away the disinagrating foam and using automotive headliner adhesive, that didn't work, came down again after a while. I then tried some contact cement from DAP, got it at Home Depot. It's still holding. The vinyl puckers a little when the glue first dries, but relaxes some after a while. I just scrapped the foam away from the top edge, an inch or so down from top. Glue only that part and let the middle float.
I too had the headliner pulling away with the foam disinagrating. It was just pulling away at the top, so I didn't want to pull it all down and redo the whole thing. I tried scraping away the disinagrating foam and using automotive headliner adhesive, that didn't work, came down again after a while. I then tried some contact cement from DAP, got it at Home Depot. It's still holding. The vinyl puckers a little when the glue first dries, but relaxes some after a while. I just scrapped the foam away from the top edge, an inch or so down from top. Glue only that part and let the middle float.
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Michael J
DAP solution
Thanks for the advice. Heard that the vinyl doesn't sit smoothly without the foam backing. Thoughts?
Thanks for the advice. Heard that the vinyl doesn't sit smoothly without the foam backing. Thoughts?
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Steve C
Correct,
without the foam the vinyl will show irreguralities, that is why I only glued the top inch and let the rest float. It came out pretty good, not like new, but, I'm happy enough with it not to hate it. Try a small section if you go this route. Scrape the foam off the back of the vinyl and the boat interior your going to glue to. Make sure its as smooth as you can get it. Apply glue only to the top of the vinyl for an inch or so, there seemed to be some natural demarkcation, I can't remember now, perhaps down to where the bend is. Apply glue to boat interior also, let dry the 15 or 30 minutes it says on directions for glue, then carefully press together trying not to stretch the headliner as you press it in place, but at the same time not putting a wrinkle in it. At first it looked like the glue was puckering the vinyl, but it relaxed after an hour or so. So mine is glued at the top, floats in the middle, and is still attached at the bottom from the factory. Be careful not to get glue on the extreme top edge of vinyl, otherwise it will show. It's tricky, but can be done. Try a small section first and see if you like it, before you do the whole thing. I really think the vinyl headliner is a weak point in an otherwise nice boat. Not sure how you could replace the foam.
without the foam the vinyl will show irreguralities, that is why I only glued the top inch and let the rest float. It came out pretty good, not like new, but, I'm happy enough with it not to hate it. Try a small section if you go this route. Scrape the foam off the back of the vinyl and the boat interior your going to glue to. Make sure its as smooth as you can get it. Apply glue only to the top of the vinyl for an inch or so, there seemed to be some natural demarkcation, I can't remember now, perhaps down to where the bend is. Apply glue to boat interior also, let dry the 15 or 30 minutes it says on directions for glue, then carefully press together trying not to stretch the headliner as you press it in place, but at the same time not putting a wrinkle in it. At first it looked like the glue was puckering the vinyl, but it relaxed after an hour or so. So mine is glued at the top, floats in the middle, and is still attached at the bottom from the factory. Be careful not to get glue on the extreme top edge of vinyl, otherwise it will show. It's tricky, but can be done. Try a small section first and see if you like it, before you do the whole thing. I really think the vinyl headliner is a weak point in an otherwise nice boat. Not sure how you could replace the foam.
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Dan
Headliner
I am not going to be doing my headliner until I am finished with all of my bottom work and have the boat in the water. Hoping for cooler weather too. I have been thinking about trying to use some type of wood veneer in place of the vinyl. I am not sure if I can get a smooth look around the top edge with that though. Somebody in my sailing club suggested that I get some new foam and bond it to the old vinyl after cleaning all of the old foam and adhesive off. Then glue the headliner/new foam back in with 3M spray trim adhesive or maybe 3M super 77 spray adhesive. My Dad is supposed to be asking a good friend of his with connections in the marine trades division of 3M about which would be best for this application. I have been taking digital pics of most of my work on the interior and the keel so I can document my repairs and either build a website or send it to Kelly Holsten to put on his excellent website. Dan
I am not going to be doing my headliner until I am finished with all of my bottom work and have the boat in the water. Hoping for cooler weather too. I have been thinking about trying to use some type of wood veneer in place of the vinyl. I am not sure if I can get a smooth look around the top edge with that though. Somebody in my sailing club suggested that I get some new foam and bond it to the old vinyl after cleaning all of the old foam and adhesive off. Then glue the headliner/new foam back in with 3M spray trim adhesive or maybe 3M super 77 spray adhesive. My Dad is supposed to be asking a good friend of his with connections in the marine trades division of 3M about which would be best for this application. I have been taking digital pics of most of my work on the interior and the keel so I can document my repairs and either build a website or send it to Kelly Holsten to put on his excellent website. Dan
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Michael J
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Neil
headliner - 3M Super 77 worked!
The headliner on my F235 decided to let go during the week last week. I used the 3M Super 77 photomount stuff (after completing the messy job of scraping off the foam from the top ~2" on the cabin side and the liner). It worked like a charm! Thanks, Dan. Neil
The headliner on my F235 decided to let go during the week last week. I used the 3M Super 77 photomount stuff (after completing the messy job of scraping off the foam from the top ~2" on the cabin side and the liner). It worked like a charm! Thanks, Dan. Neil
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