Decisions, Decisions, Confusion

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Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
I looked in my email inbox this morning and there were three emails from knowledgeable people saying that I shouldn’t do anything until talking to Rick at Mack Boring and Parts. After an adult lifetime in the boat business, I’ve learned that experts disagree and you can’t have too many opinions to weight and consider. So, I shook myself out of my funk and started doing what I should have been doing last week.

Rick is on the road and will get back to me. The person I spoke to was incredibly helpful though, there still is such a thing as customer service in a few remote corners of our great land. She suggested that the big yard here in Solomons is their top rated service outlet. So I decided to go up and see what they had to say.

First though, I decided to look into the shaft seal availability myself though. I’ve been waiting since last week for the fellow I picked to replace it to hear back from his parts supplier and for him to get back to me about the project. I went on the Internet and found a seal in 10 minutes that I could have here 10:00 tomorrow morning. The guy I’ve been talking to still hasn’t called back which has me a bit queasy about him.

I then went up to the big yard. They are a full service yard which means I can’t touch the boat after it comes out. If I need something from on board, they’ll send someone to get it for me and put the time on my bill at 100 per hour. Not my kind of place. The fellow did spend quite a bit of time going over the engine issue with me. He said that he has not seen an oil seal fail on one of these engines in 23 years without there being some underlying cause of crankcase overpressure. That was a pretty gloomy data point.

Rick just called. I can’t remember talking with anyone more patient and gracious with their time. Mack Boring and Parts is a great company. He has seen two spontaneous seal failures in the past couple of years due to the outer part drying out stiff and rolling under the other. That was encouraging. He also told me about a fix that has worked in cases where the crankshaft is scored which is an invaluable piece on information since it turns out that these shafts cannot be sleeved.

Rick told me that I could put oil in the engine and a hose over the dipstick with a pressure gauge on it to see if there is excess crankcase pressure. I’m not sure whether to do that because it means another oil clean up and the engine has to come out of the boat in any event. There are other things to be checked once it comes out that will determine whether it ever goes back in.

Meanwhile, I’ve got to decide whether to stick with the guy who hasn’t called me back about the part I’ve already found. A third yard I talked to can haul the boat and store it at the end of the week or early next week. Neither of the other yards can even think about doing anything with the engine for about a month. I don’t know when the first guy can get to it because he isn’t calling back.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
hey Roger
I know you said that the clearances between the engine-trans-shaft-hull are real tight but consider this;
secure the prop shaft by sutable means so it can't slide all the way out (vice grips and some rags to protect the shaft?)
would that give you enough room to pull the transmission?
With the transmission out it is pretty easy to change out the oil seal provided you can get the flywheel off.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
would that give you enough room to pull the transmission?
Maybe but everything on the back of this installation has to be done lying head lower than feet working over blind overhead. I wouldn't trust any work done under those conditions.

There are also several things that should be checked to determine if this engine is even worth fixing. Much easier to assess and do some proactive maintenance once it is out.
 

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
If it is just the shaft seal, then where did the water in your oil come from?
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
If it is just the shaft seal, then where did the water in your oil come from?
There wasn't any water I was mistaken about that. Water gets into my drip pan through some leaks around the cockpit in very heavy rains which we had a few days before my oil change when I did see some water. After the bleed out, there was no sign of water in the oil.

I jumped to the conclusion that there was water and posted that before I had cleaned out my drip pan.
 

Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
775
Sabre 28 NH
Roger,

Anyone give you any indication of what the damages were going to be for this work?
For me that would be the deciding factor on whether to toss any money into a 25 year old engine, a new motor in the crate is 8K. Just got to find a yard that will let you do your own work.

Saw that Java Jim asked if you were ready for a road trip. If you decide to leave the boat down south, there's enough of us here to relay you back home.

Keep us posted

Bob
 
Feb 26, 2009
716
Oday 30 Anchor Yacht Club, Bristol PA
Gee Roger, I've been down this "crankcase pressure if there is" road before with a car I used to have. A pressure gauge reading in PSI is probably not sensitive enough to determine CC pressure. But, It's not likely anyone in the area your at now would have a water column or draft to measure it accurately. (magnehelic pressure gauge)

The person going to "get back to you" is not likely interested or ready to do the deed that needs to be done. It's a very common way for trades people to say no without saying it. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I watched a friend (handed him tools) that's only moderately mechanically inclined one hot summer day; Took the trans off his universal 3 cylinder engine to replace the flex plate that cracked. All totaled I think it took him about 12 hrs.


Hoping you get some good news soon!
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,093
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Time to sit more and consider, I guess..
Curious why the Mack Boring guy, Rick, says that the shaft cannot be sleeved under the rear main seal?? Not doubting, just wondering.. Seems like a Speedi Sleeve with its removable end piece should work? Looking at the engine cross section drawing, it looks like there is room..
 
Dec 8, 2006
1,085
Oday 26 Starr, SC
contacts...

You may have told others where you are, however, not all of us. I for one have contacts on Patomac and Pasquotank(sp) Rivers in Virginia.

Maybe the cheapest answer is either to have some one tow you where you might want to pull the boat or pull it there and put on stands while you make decision what to do.

I saw comment that new engine cost $8,000. I understand that rebuilt can be had for half that. Just for what it is worth.

As to mechanics - there are mechanics who have no regard for your wallet and then there are the good old boys. I have found that often the good old boys are technically as good a the high dollar guys and know how to make do.

From your discription of response from your yard, I suspect going elsewhere might be best idea. Maybe just buy used outboard and hang from transom to get you into bay to sail to better location.

You have a motor for your dink? Look at weather window and sail to better place? In fact, sail all the way home? Outside? You would need a crew member or two, but your boat should make it in good weather. And this is the time of year for good weather window.

I would think of coming, but I am at least 8 hours away.

Yes, you fell into boating season for yards. Every one of their regular customers wants there boat yesterday.

Ed K
 

CarlN

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Jan 4, 2009
603
Ketch 55 Bristol, RI
I'm not an expert (as will be obvious), but I would want to see where all that oil was coming from. I know you felt oil in the bell housing - but that could be from a long standing small leak.

So I'd follow Ricks advice of running the engine. But I'd first remove that separator and run the engine with a standard vent configuration. With the breather not blocked, maybe everything will be fine. Not likely, but stranger things have happened to me - regularly :D

If oil pours out of the bell housing - well, then you know. But think how'd you kick yourself to pull the engine and find just a weeping leak that wouldn't stop you from getting home.


Carl
 
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