Dealing with sudden sustained gusts

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Jun 14, 2004
166
Hunter 260 Portland, OR
Don: While on a reach with 4-6 knot apparent wind from the beam (sail just touching the swept spreader), we were hit with a nearly instantaneous and violent wind blast that may have been a downdraft from the heavy shower that followed. I'm guessing the wind approached 30mph. It came completely without notice while we had full sails out, and put us on our side (as with other nearby boats). The thing lasted about fifteen minutes. To avoid the knock down, we ended-up falling off the wind and heading toward a run. The force of the wind broke the mainsheet lock loose and slammmed the main and boom into the shrouds and spreader. I thought we'd lose both sails. Question: Is it better in such a condition to try and round up from a reach to drop sail? Thank you!
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Bob: What you described is an interesting situation and I hope we get some feed back from others as to how they would handle it. It fits into a sail trim discussion I was having last night with a group of beginner sailors. The discussion last night involved having a plan to deal with sailing situations that come up sometimes (actually most times) when you least expect them. I was asking the group what they would do if this or that happened. For example, a shroud or stay broke, someone fell overboard or whatever (I did not think of a sudden squall but that would have worked also - I will include it the next time). What I wanted them to do is have a plan to cope with the situation that they could activate immediatelly and almost without thinking. When the crap hits the fan that is hardly the time to figure out what to do. There are probably a few way to deal with your situation and the skipper is always the final arbiter as to what to do. Unfortuanately, he has to live (or die) by his decision. Here's what I would have done. Remember I'm trying to get control of the boat as I really don't know what is coming next. I would have immediately come up to closehauled and here's why and it has to do with options. Going to down wind reduces my options. In other words, its blowing like stink and there is no way I can reduce sail going downwind. I'm held captive and being pushed along like a giant kite. While it might be a fun ride in other circumstances that is not the idea of the question. Assume I'm now closehauled. First I want to reduce the angle of attack so I would drop the traveler. Probably that is not going to help much in the situation you are describing but it will help some. Next,I want to make the bottom 2/3 of the sail as flat as possable so I would crank on the outhaul and bend the mast. For the moment, that takes care of the main. Now I have to deal with flattening the jib. If you have a Garhauer adjustable fairlead system, the next step is easy - flaten the jib by moving the fairlead car aft. If you have a pin car setup that's easier said than done. What you have done with that simple and quick fairlead adjustment is flatten the bottom 2/3 of the sail and induce twist in the top 1/3. Twist mean your spilling power out the top of the sail. Hopefully, we are now under control. I'd wait a minute to see how much control I have. Assume its getting worse. I'd release the boom vang, which will twist off the top of the main thus spilling power. At this point, regardless of how much control I have, I'm really thinking about rolling up that jib. Because, I'm closehauled instead of downwind, this is simple - just come head to wind and roll it up VERY QUICKLY (neat does not matter - just get it in) and then fall back to closehauled. Next is a 1st and 2nd reef in the main, which again is simple - just come head to wind and do it. I would not fool around with the 1st reef. I'd go right to the 2nd because it is tough enough to do so why do it twice. Finally, and if all else fails, you drop the main and go to bare poles. The above sound like a lot of work. Most of it, other than the reef, can be done in less than 2 minutes. Most sailors don't practice reefing. They wait until it is blowing like stink to try it and it takes them forever to get the job done. Hopefully, this discussion will take off on this important topic. I'm really not interested in a discussion on what is the right way or the wrong way. More important is what each sailor should do is think out what they are going to do and have some kind of reasoning in their mind as to why they are proceeding as they are because they are going to live with it. I was thinking about something else - I assume everyone know what a "chicken gybe" is. Gybing in heavy weather can be a real trip and you can tear up a lot of hardware plus taking someones head off if you don't do it right. The chicken gybe is real simple, easy and very safe. If anyone is interested, I'll explain it.
 
F

francis

Something like that happened to me a few years ago. We were rounding a small island in the lake and I had a full main and jib up and all of a sudden a blast came up and we went over around 45 to 50 degrees. What I did was just turn into the wind and we flattened out right away. It was pretty scary though because as we turned into the wind it seemed as though we heeled more. After we turned up I just finished the circle and the blow was over. I do have a question thought Don. You say that you would of released the vang, but in your book you say to tighten the vang in strong wind. I do not understand why you say it in the book but say it differently here. Can you please explain why it is different from what you said in your book. Thanks
 

Rich L

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Mar 9, 2004
138
Hunter 26 Kentucky
Explain the chicken jibe

If it's what I think it is, I use it regularly in strong winds... However, I call it the Wise Old Man of the Sea Jibe.
 
F

Franklin

Jib first?

On 25 kt days I've sailed with just the jib at close hauled and it seemed to produce a fairly balanced helm (a little weather helm) which would make since because the jib is countering the weather helm producde by the heeling. I believe I maintained decent speed of about 6+ SOG with just the jib. You speak of rolling the jib first, then reefing the main. Why? Wouldn't running just the main cause even more weather helm and therefore increase tention on the rudder and lots of drag?
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Depends on how fast the boat is going.

My boat heaves-to exceptionally well on just a mainsail. Assuming a displacment hull, my preference is to immediately heave-to on the main while furling the genoa, and then think about how deep a reef should be taken when/if I re-raise. All my reef positions are pre-set and marked so it only takes about 30 seconds to drop and reef. ... and I can do it all from the cockpit and dont have to take the time to THINK about it. Even if I didnt use lazyjacks, I wouldnt even bother to tie in the reef points ... just unattractive once you get the new clew/tack postion set. Heaving-to is also nice as you dont have the additional aggravation of having green water coming over decks to also distract you - it take a while for the waves to develop in suddenly increasing winds. For a 'white squall' I simply do a complete 'fast drop' , start the engine and wait until things sort themselve out a little later. But you usually have to be going into the wind to affect a good fast drop. A good fast drop is also conditional on how clean and how well lubricated the mast track and slides are and if you are using some sort of lazy jack system (not really necessary) and if you properly coiled and stored the halyard so you're sure it will be tangle free when you totally let go for the 'big-drop'. I guess its a habit or I remember what its like getting 'jumped' by strong winds so I *religiously* carefully coil my halyards in expectation of a 'big drop'. Hint: its usually the damn Halyard that gets fouled/tangled and stops the smooth flow of a 'big-drop'. It really pays to learn how to coil one (reversing every other turn) so it uncoils in a bombproof manner. During long distance travel I usually cleat the tail of the halyard to a preset mark for the NEXT reef so all I have to do is totally let go and the halyard will stop 'exactly' where I need to set the tack hook (or reefing tack control line in my case from the cockpit). . Boat speed is another limiting factor as if you are running-off and already at hull speed its going to get 'interesting' when you 'turn that corner' to head up to drop or reduce area. I like to head-up as early as possible as that position lets me know immediately whats the maximum wind speed I have to contend with ... I can always drop down if need be. In contrast if going downwind at maximum pressure its always a flogging nighmare to turn into relatively faster wind when heading up. If I see 'something' comming and Im not sure, Ill sit broadside to its direction and feather up with just the leech of the mainsail to keep control of the boat, If still overpowered I'll heave-to or do a big-drop To reduce sail area you need to reduce the pressure on the sail and need to head up. Sure you can reef when going downwind, but its always a very slower process due to the wind pressure on the sails. So I guess my contribution is how well one "pre-prepares" for a 'fast dowse' into a deep reef. When completely letting go on the halyard, If your mainsail takes longer than 3 seconds to hit the boom/deck and without the halyard going completely to the top in a wild tangled mess, the main being controlled by lazy jacks, etc so the entire drop and reef only take approx. 30 seconds or less, then you have some thinking and work to do to prepare for 'next time'. Getting jumped by large winds is no time to .... "lets see, how does this reef stuff go? Honey, do you remember where we keep all the rope for the second reef ...." If you cant drop into a deep reef well inside of 30 seconds, start thinking now about how to. When you NEED to is not the time to learn how. Good 'prep' and forethought are the key. hope this helps
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Francis: Talking about sail trim is like discussing a golf swing. There are many parts to it and things change throughout the swing and it is hard to cover all aspects of the swing in a book designed for beginners to intermediates. Same with sail trim. There are 8 controls for the main and 6 for the jib. The adjustments are many and can be minute in order to compensate for the point of sail, wind condidtion and sea state. The idea in heavy wind is to flatten the sail as much as possable because a flat sail is a less powerful sail so you crank down on everything. Generally, that will work BUT if it doesn't you can further depower the sail by inducing twist and the only way to do that is release the boom vang. What I try to do is quite the boat with the flat sail. I give it a few minutes to stabilize and it it doesn't work I release the vang and twist off the sail.
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Franklin: Do you have a masthead or fractional rig? Sailing with the jib only on a masthead rig in heavy wind is not a good idea because the jib is the engine on these boats and your defeating the purpose if you purpose is to control the boat. You've lost the balance that the main gives. Why you douse the jib first is because you do the opposite of how you raise your sails. You raise the main first and roll out the jib. When you reduce sail you do the opposite.
 
Jun 21, 2004
129
- - Westbrook, CT
Defensive tactics

As a general rule, you deal with strong gusts as follows: 1. If on a beam reach or lower, bear away until the boat stands up and weather helm is relieved. 2. On a close reach or higher, pinch into the wind until the boat stands up. You can do this almost indefinitely and the boat will move along slowly to windward. On a gusty day, when I'm sailing on a reach, I'll sail higher than my desired course, just to give myself room to leeward in case I have to bear off for a big one. The problem with rounding up when you're reaching is that you do expose yourself to a knockdown in a really strong gust. 30 knots probably wouldn't push over any keelboat under jib and main, but it would sure be an interesting turn, especially in a 260. The main lesson here is don't get caught out in an approaching thunderstorm with your sails up. It happened to me once, never again. Paul sv Escape Artist h336
 
F

Franklin

fractional rig

I have a fractional rig...I guess that's why it works for me.
 
K

Kevin

Microbursts

BobSail wrote: “The force of the wind broke the mainsheet lock loose and slammed the main and boom into the shrouds and spreader.” Did it just uncleat – or did you break something? I am not sure what a mainsheet lock is. Broken gear makes this tougher. I generally prefer to head up & luff – but I am sailing a J22 where I can release the mainsheet in a hurry – in a defensive move I would usually do both fast. The other advantage of heading up is that I am then in a good position to tack to heave to by not releasing the jib. I am not sure how well that will work with a big genny, but on a J22 with a class jib you can get reasonable control quickly that way. Being hove to makes reefing or dropping sail easier as well. I think heading down & sheeting in requires more skill – I've only tried it in less harrowing gusts. I think that you would need a working (not broken) mainsheet to head down safely. Another item to consider – starting the engine. This can give you more control – especially if you have a gear failure to contend with. You can get head to wind, hold it there and get a sail or sails down if needed. We often get downbursts from virga (rain that evaporates before it reaches the ground) or t’storms. This is caused by the cooling of the air by the rain as it evaporates – the heavy cold air falls splat against the ground and creates a big blow as it fans out and displaces the warm air. This is generally not a time to sail, especially if it is close by. OTH: If it is far enough away around here it can be a ticket to a 15-20kt blow for a while on an otherwise flat day. A judgment that requires some experience. Comments?
 
Jun 14, 2004
166
Hunter 260 Portland, OR
Kevin...

...the "mainsheet lock" I referred to is a cam-lock type device on the lower blockset of the mainsheet. Since we were already against the spreaders, we had the sail out as far as you'd want to go. The force of the gust broke the camlock loose and essentially overextended the boom into the shrouds. Since we were in a water-ballast swing keel, I was a little timid about rounding-up, and there was no more sail to let out during the manuever to control heel. Your description of the storm event sounds plausible for this situation. I work outside for a living, and have not encountered anything like that before. There were no thunder cells in the area. The cloud that brought this was fairly low and thin. Thank you all for your input! The main point I take away from here is to have a game plan in advance for this and any other sudden situations that may arise. I appreciate the help.
 
K

Kevin

More Microbursts

“Your description of the storm event sounds plausible for this situation. I work outside for a living, and have not encountered anything like that before. There were no thunder cells in the area. The cloud that brought this was fairly low and thin.” Normally for us, microbursts come out of bigger cumulo-nimbus clouds that are dropping rain (or virga), lightning and/or thunder may or may not be present but the clouds are very t’storm-like. Your area’s weather is quite different – not as hot a land surface & more water about – so it would be interesting to hear from a weather expert what was going on with that thin cloud – perhaps you will find out more from an expert who lives in your area and tell us more. Another lesson about thunderstorms – I have several 2” diameter hail bombs in my freezer and a badly dented truck – all from a thunderstorm at the house last week – we had a yard full of these – you could not walk without stepping on a golfball of hard hail. Not something to be caught sailing in – the small lake across the street was an unbelievable mass of impact fountains! Amazing. Awesome. Respect, and fear the weather. We try to be real careful around this stuff – unless the cell is very small, has no thunder, and is some distance away it is better to stay off the lake. Still – a ‘microburst-LITE’ beats a flat calm! I don’t disagree with heading down – but I still prefer to head up if I can – I like the heave-to option. In the crisis – whatever it takes to regain control, your feel and knowledge of your boat probably gave you the best option to gain time to make whatever adjustments are needed. You probably also have a B&R rig (no backstay), one effect of which is to limit outward travel of the boom – this might have an effect upon your choice of strategy – a bit harder to luff the main – like my NACRA catamaran. The plus to the B&R – again like the catamaran – is a roachier mainsail, but luffing is more limited – and this might be another reason it would be easier to go down to gain control. Too much of my experience is in catamarans – with apparent wind almost always forward of the beam – so I am still getting used to the different characteristics of the keelboat (J22) & the concept of sailing down (apparent) wind. Cheers!
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Releasing the vang .....

Yup, releasing the vang will depower the upper part the mainsail but then you put the lower half of the sail at risk to flog the boom across violently if you need to also feather-up. I prefer to leave the vang on and risk being slightly and momentarily over powered as I head up to feather and 'blade-out'. If the sail is free to flog at the top ... it probably will. If the new winds are all 'straight line' and without a lot of 'roll turbulence' releasing the vang would be a good choice; but, if the new wind has a lot of instability and 'roll' with it I'd prefer the sail to be a bit 'quieter' and be less subject to violent 'reattachments' to the new wind. It all depends on how much 'instability' ... roll, downdrafts, turbulence, etc. that slams into you. ;-)
 
J

Jared

Vang confusion...

I am confused about the vang... I thought that you could power up a sail by allowing more twist to the sail by loosening the vang. Thus, you want to reduce twist in high winds. Would then loosening the vang only be a temporary fix by quickly bleeding air off the sail - then it may actually have a negative effect? The way we deal with gusts is to drop the traveller then pinch up higher on the winds if close-hauled if needed. Then if it stays, reef the main, then the jib. Turning downwind closehauled is no good on our boat (H34) since it is tender and wants to heal and round up while going through a beam reach to get downwind. If downwind, we will depower by sheeting in the main (though I am not sure this is the best way to accomplish this...) Anyone have any guidance to help me explain the vang to depower?
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Phil: (mates: a lesson in etiquette - when the owner of this site asks me a question I should jump on it!!) Sustained gusts or any gust are easy to deal with and you only need one control for the main and one for the jib to deal with it. On the main, you just play the traveler - down in a puff and then back up when it subsides. On the jib - if you have say a Garhauer adjustable fairlead system you just play it like the traveler. If you have a pin fairlead system, you have problems. To me, the whole thing is having the boat under control and knowing what adjustment to make for every point of sail and wind condition. Guessing does not get the job done. In fact, it can be down right dangerous as you may be making the situation worse. In Bobsail's situation or any situation, the first couple of minutes are critical and generally a mess but once you get it sorted out and under control any wind condition becomes easy to deal with. The advantage you have with persistence gusts is that they are predictable. After the first one hits, you know more are on the way and you are ready to deal with them.
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Jared: Actually, twist does not power up the sail. It depowers the sail by spilling air out the top of the sail. Twist is very impotant to understand and I'll bet that 50% of the sailors are confused with it. Anyone reading this that has questions about it should visit the archieves and read about it. Once you understand it you be amazed at how simple it really is. Also, once you see it in person you'll never forget it. In fact, sailing with a twisted sail is extremely common. At least 75% of the boats sailing around on any given day sail with twisted mains and jibs!! If you don't believe me, just check it out this week end when your on the water.
 
F

Franklin

Pin fairlead

"If you have a pin fairlead system, you have problems." What I do is release the jib sheet and traveler or main sheet depending on the point of sail, and then round up. Once boat is leveled off, I go up front and pull the pin to move the block back, then go back and re-trim the jib. Then furl the main and head back to my point of sail and applying trim again. I haven't found a way to move the jib sheet block without releasing the jib sheet.
 
May 17, 2004
2,110
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Franklin; You can step on the jib sheet forward of the fairlead and then move the fairlead but that is a pain. Go to www,garhauermarine.com and check out their adjustable fairlead system and your troubles with moving the block are over. With the adjustable system you'll get better efficiency from your jib. The problem with the pin system is people will do what is easy and not what is hard. It is hard to mess with the pin system. I've been on boats where the pin is rusted in place!! In effect, the sailors set the jib and then forgot it. It is like a broken clock, which is right twice a day. The rusted fairlead setting is right for only one point of sail and wind condition.
 
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