The rudder on my Hunter 28.5 has a fist sized divit blown out of the port side. Ice in the rudder caused the damage. I am getting 3 prices for the repair. Any advice? How do I prevent this from happening next winter?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
O
Olivier van Mierlo
This helps for me
I am familiar with your problem since I sailed several old boats. I dont know about the condition of your boat but it seems that there has been some delaminasation of the fibreglasslayers caused by the ice. In this stage I would completely remove the top fibreglass layer around the blister. After letting this area dry out intensely using a heater (or a hairdryer) add a new layer of fibreglass and epoxy on the damaged surface. After that you finish it up with epoxy finishing-filler. After hearing out a lot of ideas from others like peeling off the gelcoat and other expensive suggestions this came out as the most inexpensive and effective solution to prevent rudderdamage in the futere. Every year when I dock my boat I check her for blisters. If I find one (or some) I scrape the blisters using a paintchizzle. I also drill 4 or five holes in the rudder to let water and moist drain out. After 4 months drying on the dock and a week before she goes into the water I fill the blisters and drilling holes with epoxy before putting on one layer of anti-foulingpaint. It works for me, the rudder keeps fine and you can do it yourself. Good luck Olivier
I am familiar with your problem since I sailed several old boats. I dont know about the condition of your boat but it seems that there has been some delaminasation of the fibreglasslayers caused by the ice. In this stage I would completely remove the top fibreglass layer around the blister. After letting this area dry out intensely using a heater (or a hairdryer) add a new layer of fibreglass and epoxy on the damaged surface. After that you finish it up with epoxy finishing-filler. After hearing out a lot of ideas from others like peeling off the gelcoat and other expensive suggestions this came out as the most inexpensive and effective solution to prevent rudderdamage in the futere. Every year when I dock my boat I check her for blisters. If I find one (or some) I scrape the blisters using a paintchizzle. I also drill 4 or five holes in the rudder to let water and moist drain out. After 4 months drying on the dock and a week before she goes into the water I fill the blisters and drilling holes with epoxy before putting on one layer of anti-foulingpaint. It works for me, the rudder keeps fine and you can do it yourself. Good luck Olivier
P
Paul Akers
Easiest and recommended way
I recently attended a Fiberglass Workshop help by one of the pre-emiment fiberglass repairmen in the Portland, ME are. When I asked him how to properly fill the weep holes that I drilled in the rudder base last fall, he snickered and said I did the wrong thing. He said not to focus on draining the water, but to focus on the source of the water. Eventually, the rudder frame (inside) will deteriorate and fail. Once dry and sealed look for the input source of the water. It could be cracks in the rudder barrier skin (check for water leakage coming out through the skin when the boat is on the hard) or it could be entering at the rudder stock. Attack it there and stop the water from entering.
I recently attended a Fiberglass Workshop help by one of the pre-emiment fiberglass repairmen in the Portland, ME are. When I asked him how to properly fill the weep holes that I drilled in the rudder base last fall, he snickered and said I did the wrong thing. He said not to focus on draining the water, but to focus on the source of the water. Eventually, the rudder frame (inside) will deteriorate and fail. Once dry and sealed look for the input source of the water. It could be cracks in the rudder barrier skin (check for water leakage coming out through the skin when the boat is on the hard) or it could be entering at the rudder stock. Attack it there and stop the water from entering.
O
Olivier van Mierlo
Paul has a point
I have to agree with Paul that you have to focus on the leakageproblem. I also think that it can be difficult to prevent the rudder from leaking. Very many rudders are hollow with a stainless steel construction. As you already stated the waterleak could well enter from the rudder stock making small enterings while the rudder is used and builds pressure. I tried many things like sealants, rubberrings etc. to solve that problem but no one came with a solution that really worked. So I learned to live with the idea that the leak might be unsolveble. Therefor I still embrace the idea of drilling holes in the rudder to prevent ice or other damage unless the leakage is solved. Meantime I would be really interested in a strong idea. Regards Olivier
I have to agree with Paul that you have to focus on the leakageproblem. I also think that it can be difficult to prevent the rudder from leaking. Very many rudders are hollow with a stainless steel construction. As you already stated the waterleak could well enter from the rudder stock making small enterings while the rudder is used and builds pressure. I tried many things like sealants, rubberrings etc. to solve that problem but no one came with a solution that really worked. So I learned to live with the idea that the leak might be unsolveble. Therefor I still embrace the idea of drilling holes in the rudder to prevent ice or other damage unless the leakage is solved. Meantime I would be really interested in a strong idea. Regards Olivier
M
Mike H
This is a common problem
In addition to the good repair advice posted, I will pass on my own experience...which is very current. The rudder manufacturer (not Hunter) says that the most common cause of delamination is the overheating of the rudder while the boat is out of the water. The OEM says never paint the rudder with black undercoat, as this will cause the rudder to get hot when 'on the hard' and even when in the water. Impacts are the next and obvious reason for delam. In my case I have some of both. The rudder on my 28.5 (1985 vintage) is fiberglass with a foam core. Imbedded in the foam is cast iron 'fins' attached to the tube. Delamination occurs when the fiberglass separates from the foam core. Unrepaired, water can get in and eventually ruin the rudder, so this is a condition that should not be ignored. Use the plastic end of a large screw driver or other tapping device and tap around the rudder. You will hear it if you strike an area that is delaminated. Next, with a sharpie and the tapper, trace the outline of the delam'ed area(s). Remove the bottom paint from the area outlined. Drill holes around the perimeter of the delam area - maybe about 1" in from the edge of that perimeter. Drill a hole in the center of the delam area. If it's a large area, you may have to drill concentric rings of holes towards the center of the delam. You are drilling just through the fiberglass, do not drill deeply into the foam core. After cleaning up the holes with a razor, prepare a high quality 2 part epoxy. Use a syringe and inject the epoxy into each hole. Keep injecting the goop until you have a sense that the epoxy is fully distributed throughout the area of delam. Next use whatever wood (plywood and 2X4's worked for me) handy that's big enough and clamp down on the rudder to apply good pressure to the delam area. I laid a garbage bag down between the clamp wood and the epoxied holes so that I did not wind up epoxying the plywood to the rudder! Let the epoxy set. After the epoxy is fully cured, use a dremmel or Rotozip tool to grind the gelcoat away around the drill holes and then put down new gel coat. After that sand/feather the new gelcoat and viola. I would also recommend that you strip the entire rudder of paint so you can search for impact/leak sources. It's important to remember though that delam doesn't have to start with a crack or hole punched into the glass, and you should inspect/tap your rudder each season and repair as you find delam starting.
In addition to the good repair advice posted, I will pass on my own experience...which is very current. The rudder manufacturer (not Hunter) says that the most common cause of delamination is the overheating of the rudder while the boat is out of the water. The OEM says never paint the rudder with black undercoat, as this will cause the rudder to get hot when 'on the hard' and even when in the water. Impacts are the next and obvious reason for delam. In my case I have some of both. The rudder on my 28.5 (1985 vintage) is fiberglass with a foam core. Imbedded in the foam is cast iron 'fins' attached to the tube. Delamination occurs when the fiberglass separates from the foam core. Unrepaired, water can get in and eventually ruin the rudder, so this is a condition that should not be ignored. Use the plastic end of a large screw driver or other tapping device and tap around the rudder. You will hear it if you strike an area that is delaminated. Next, with a sharpie and the tapper, trace the outline of the delam'ed area(s). Remove the bottom paint from the area outlined. Drill holes around the perimeter of the delam area - maybe about 1" in from the edge of that perimeter. Drill a hole in the center of the delam area. If it's a large area, you may have to drill concentric rings of holes towards the center of the delam. You are drilling just through the fiberglass, do not drill deeply into the foam core. After cleaning up the holes with a razor, prepare a high quality 2 part epoxy. Use a syringe and inject the epoxy into each hole. Keep injecting the goop until you have a sense that the epoxy is fully distributed throughout the area of delam. Next use whatever wood (plywood and 2X4's worked for me) handy that's big enough and clamp down on the rudder to apply good pressure to the delam area. I laid a garbage bag down between the clamp wood and the epoxied holes so that I did not wind up epoxying the plywood to the rudder! Let the epoxy set. After the epoxy is fully cured, use a dremmel or Rotozip tool to grind the gelcoat away around the drill holes and then put down new gel coat. After that sand/feather the new gelcoat and viola. I would also recommend that you strip the entire rudder of paint so you can search for impact/leak sources. It's important to remember though that delam doesn't have to start with a crack or hole punched into the glass, and you should inspect/tap your rudder each season and repair as you find delam starting.
T
TStone
Thanks for the advice
Being new to the Hunter fleet I will likely have the repair done professionally.
Being new to the Hunter fleet I will likely have the repair done professionally.
T
Tim McCarty
One more suggestion...
not sure where I heard this, and, having a new boat, I completely forgot to do this last winter. I read somewhere that it's a good idea to cover the rudder with something that will reflect the sunlight (like a white trash bag, or even tin foil). For what it's worth...I will probably do this next winter. I did extensive rudder work to my last boat, and really don't want to go through THAT again.
not sure where I heard this, and, having a new boat, I completely forgot to do this last winter. I read somewhere that it's a good idea to cover the rudder with something that will reflect the sunlight (like a white trash bag, or even tin foil). For what it's worth...I will probably do this next winter. I did extensive rudder work to my last boat, and really don't want to go through THAT again.
S
S. Sauer
28.5 Rudder Delamination
Some time ago, my rudder went through some delamination, which I attributed to a poorly designed joint at the aft edge. It was necessary to grind off the entire edge and rebuild it by criss crossing 3" fiberglas tapes in several layers. I also used a dremel tool to rout out an a joint around the stainless steel shaft and seal it with West System epoxy. Because there was considerable moisture trapped within the foam, I went through the drilling, drying out and filling proceedure, but finished up by coating the entire rudder with West System Epoxy. I also changed the rudder paint to Shark White CSC and have had minimal problems since.
Some time ago, my rudder went through some delamination, which I attributed to a poorly designed joint at the aft edge. It was necessary to grind off the entire edge and rebuild it by criss crossing 3" fiberglas tapes in several layers. I also used a dremel tool to rout out an a joint around the stainless steel shaft and seal it with West System epoxy. Because there was considerable moisture trapped within the foam, I went through the drilling, drying out and filling proceedure, but finished up by coating the entire rudder with West System Epoxy. I also changed the rudder paint to Shark White CSC and have had minimal problems since.
B
Bob
Re-built my rudder this winter
Coming in late to this string but I have a 285 (1987) and I bought it two years ago knowing that it had a delaminated rudder. (They all do!) Before the problem went on too long I had the rudder removed and over this past winter rebuilt it. Like you I had four areas where the "skin" was delaminated along with lot of water in the rudder. Using a Dremil, I cut away the delaminated parts and drilled about 50 holes all of the rudder. Then I built a tent out of clear plastic and placed a heater inside (be very careful if you ever try this). I "baked the rudder almost all winter at a low heat and you should of seen the amount of water that came out! After it was dry, using West products, I sealed up the holes, taped along the leading edge of the rudder (which slpit open from the baking process), replaced the cut out skin areas with new glass, faired it, barrier coated it and painted on three coats of WHITE bottom paint. I should also mention that I worked on the area where the rudder shaft entered the rudder, a very comon area of water entry. Which brings me to my point. Prevent the problem before it happens again! It was a lot of work to re-work the rudder. It cost me about $300. in materials and some tools but cheaper than a new one. Just about everything I've read in this string is true, in my opinion. But the most important thing it to make sure the job is done right, either by you or the yard. Next winter, after your boat has been out awhile, have someone from the yard come over with a moisture meter (their too expensive to buy and you can't rent them) to see the moisture level in your rudder. Don't do it right after the boat is pulled cause you'll get a false reading.
Coming in late to this string but I have a 285 (1987) and I bought it two years ago knowing that it had a delaminated rudder. (They all do!) Before the problem went on too long I had the rudder removed and over this past winter rebuilt it. Like you I had four areas where the "skin" was delaminated along with lot of water in the rudder. Using a Dremil, I cut away the delaminated parts and drilled about 50 holes all of the rudder. Then I built a tent out of clear plastic and placed a heater inside (be very careful if you ever try this). I "baked the rudder almost all winter at a low heat and you should of seen the amount of water that came out! After it was dry, using West products, I sealed up the holes, taped along the leading edge of the rudder (which slpit open from the baking process), replaced the cut out skin areas with new glass, faired it, barrier coated it and painted on three coats of WHITE bottom paint. I should also mention that I worked on the area where the rudder shaft entered the rudder, a very comon area of water entry. Which brings me to my point. Prevent the problem before it happens again! It was a lot of work to re-work the rudder. It cost me about $300. in materials and some tools but cheaper than a new one. Just about everything I've read in this string is true, in my opinion. But the most important thing it to make sure the job is done right, either by you or the yard. Next winter, after your boat has been out awhile, have someone from the yard come over with a moisture meter (their too expensive to buy and you can't rent them) to see the moisture level in your rudder. Don't do it right after the boat is pulled cause you'll get a false reading.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.