I was to be a proud new owner of a 2002 Passage 450. The boat left the factory on October 16, 2001 and was scheduled to arrive at Cedar Mills Marina - Texoma at 3:30 October 19, 2001. At 4:00pm while I was sitting with the rigger and dealer celebrating the moment, the bad news was given to us - Boat had made contact with a low bridge! Winches sheared off and wheel pedistal bent down. Substantial glass damage. My question to this forum is has anybody else experienced a situation similar and how did Hunter respond? I did not close on the boat that day, and not sure that I will. The damage is not structural and can be repaired. Lucky enough the Valiant Yacht factory is on this lake and they will be the ones to repair the damage. The estimate is 60 man hours and the repair will be stronger than new. The value of this boat now is much less to me than before. I believe that even with a great glass repair, at some point in time when I move up, this damage will effect resale value. Here is link to the pictures of damage: http://communities.msn.com/SongofTexas/photoalbums.msnw Is it best to walk away from this or reach a settlement? Thanks for any help Joel Song of Texas
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Tough Call
Not sure what I would do. Even with a great repair job you will always see something there that will not sit well with you or you can wait and get another boat. Either way I imagine this years sailing season is shot. Unless you receive substantial consideration on the damaged boat I think I would walk away from this one and wait on another.
Not sure what I would do. Even with a great repair job you will always see something there that will not sit well with you or you can wait and get another boat. Either way I imagine this years sailing season is shot. Unless you receive substantial consideration on the damaged boat I think I would walk away from this one and wait on another.
Patience
The question is how long will it take to get a new boat from Hunter? Can you wait that long? Based upon the pictures I would probably see how the repair looks and if it looks OK, I would take the boat minus a significant reduction in the purchase price. I don't think 5 years from now it will make a bit of differnce about the repair as long as it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb. I would not close until the repair is made and you are happy with it. If you are really concerned, walk away and order a new boat. I susupect this happens all the time when they deliver new cars and they are repaired and the customer never knows it.
The question is how long will it take to get a new boat from Hunter? Can you wait that long? Based upon the pictures I would probably see how the repair looks and if it looks OK, I would take the boat minus a significant reduction in the purchase price. I don't think 5 years from now it will make a bit of differnce about the repair as long as it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb. I would not close until the repair is made and you are happy with it. If you are really concerned, walk away and order a new boat. I susupect this happens all the time when they deliver new cars and they are repaired and the customer never knows it.
If you take delivery...
(And have a sense of humor), name it "Roadkill!" These things happen occasionally. Here, years ago, a 28' powerboat was on a truck from the dealership south of Atlanta enroute to Lake Lanier. Because it was only going about 40 miles, it had only been set on the flatbed, not tied down. An accident just ahead of the truck on the interstate caused the driver to slam on his brakes, which caused his trailer to jacknife...the forward momentum sent the boat forward, shearing off the outside mirror on the cab as passed...it skidded down the freeway on its bottom for about 60'. Amazingly, the only damage was some sanded-off gelcoat (hulls were THICK in those days!), and the buyer agreed to take the boat. He named it "Road Tested." As others have said, if the repairs are done right, your boat's close encounter with a bridge won't affect its survey value at all. Overall, prob'ly about 10% of new boats going to dealerships to go into their inventory have some kind of damage during shipment...because yours was ordered specifically for you, you just happen to be in a position to know what's damaged and to what extent--AND be able to negotiate based on that knowledge. If it were my boat, that's what I'd do.
(And have a sense of humor), name it "Roadkill!" These things happen occasionally. Here, years ago, a 28' powerboat was on a truck from the dealership south of Atlanta enroute to Lake Lanier. Because it was only going about 40 miles, it had only been set on the flatbed, not tied down. An accident just ahead of the truck on the interstate caused the driver to slam on his brakes, which caused his trailer to jacknife...the forward momentum sent the boat forward, shearing off the outside mirror on the cab as passed...it skidded down the freeway on its bottom for about 60'. Amazingly, the only damage was some sanded-off gelcoat (hulls were THICK in those days!), and the buyer agreed to take the boat. He named it "Road Tested." As others have said, if the repairs are done right, your boat's close encounter with a bridge won't affect its survey value at all. Overall, prob'ly about 10% of new boats going to dealerships to go into their inventory have some kind of damage during shipment...because yours was ordered specifically for you, you just happen to be in a position to know what's damaged and to what extent--AND be able to negotiate based on that knowledge. If it were my boat, that's what I'd do.
Pacific Seacraft
If you post this question on the Cruising World Bulletin Board they would no doubt tell you that if it was a Pacific Seacraft the winches would have stayed in place and the bridge would have been ripped out. :>)
If you post this question on the Cruising World Bulletin Board they would no doubt tell you that if it was a Pacific Seacraft the winches would have stayed in place and the bridge would have been ripped out. :>)
Peggy's got a point
Well, you paid for "new" not "repaired" so if you want "new" and NOT "repaired", then you probably have a case for telling Hunter to crank you out a new one; let them eat this one. However, Peggy's right about one thing; Hunter knows it's stuck with a damaged boat and they know you are in a position to negotiate and they are extremely likely to give you a better deal if you want to go this way. They may even warranty the repair as well as knock a few grand or so off the price. As to Valiant Yachts doing the repair, hell, those people can work on my boat anytime! They build a really tough product so they should know a few things about fixing boats. And, they probably will offer some kind of warranty on their work as well and I'm sure they have good insurance. Peggy's right, too, in that you will have the opportunity to be on hand for the repairs and can monitor the progress and force a change if you see something you don't like. She's also right that quality repairs properly done won't drastically affect your survey in coming years; certainly not to the extent, if you want to be honest about it, as will just the typical depreciation of a "new" boat becoming a "pre-owned" boat. If it were me, I'd negotiate with Hunter, get a price I could live with, work with Valiant and go sailing when it's all said and done.
Well, you paid for "new" not "repaired" so if you want "new" and NOT "repaired", then you probably have a case for telling Hunter to crank you out a new one; let them eat this one. However, Peggy's right about one thing; Hunter knows it's stuck with a damaged boat and they know you are in a position to negotiate and they are extremely likely to give you a better deal if you want to go this way. They may even warranty the repair as well as knock a few grand or so off the price. As to Valiant Yachts doing the repair, hell, those people can work on my boat anytime! They build a really tough product so they should know a few things about fixing boats. And, they probably will offer some kind of warranty on their work as well and I'm sure they have good insurance. Peggy's right, too, in that you will have the opportunity to be on hand for the repairs and can monitor the progress and force a change if you see something you don't like. She's also right that quality repairs properly done won't drastically affect your survey in coming years; certainly not to the extent, if you want to be honest about it, as will just the typical depreciation of a "new" boat becoming a "pre-owned" boat. If it were me, I'd negotiate with Hunter, get a price I could live with, work with Valiant and go sailing when it's all said and done.
Check The Fine Print Of Your Contract.
You might need to read the small print on our contract. You probably have a contract with the dealer not Hunter. The dealer and or you probably owned the boat the moment it left Hunters property. The trucking company had "care, custody
You might need to read the small print on our contract. You probably have a contract with the dealer not Hunter. The dealer and or you probably owned the boat the moment it left Hunters property. The trucking company had "care, custody
ALL OF THE RESPONSE ARE GOOD SO FAR
When I order our 460, I had a discussion with the dealer concerning damage during transit. He told me a story of another 450 that had hit a bridge. We discussed the issue of minor damage. The notion was that minor easily repaired damage should not affect delivey. Major repairs, ie. the boat that hit the bridge are a different matter. Thus review your agreement. Investigate the repair route. Ask Hunter to put you in touch with people that have had similar problems. By the way, the dealer that told me the story a couple of years ago was Alan Adelkind of Angus Yachts. Call him 416-260-0171 good luck.
When I order our 460, I had a discussion with the dealer concerning damage during transit. He told me a story of another 450 that had hit a bridge. We discussed the issue of minor damage. The notion was that minor easily repaired damage should not affect delivey. Major repairs, ie. the boat that hit the bridge are a different matter. Thus review your agreement. Investigate the repair route. Ask Hunter to put you in touch with people that have had similar problems. By the way, the dealer that told me the story a couple of years ago was Alan Adelkind of Angus Yachts. Call him 416-260-0171 good luck.
My best guess
First, my condolences. The emotional letdown of seeing your gorgeous new boat damaged has got to be awful. Regarding next steps, your contract is with the dealer, not Hunter. Your dealer pays for the boat when they receive it - not sure if the dealer owns the boat when it leaves the factory. They might, but then again, they may also be able to refuse it. Here's my take; Hunter isn't going to discount the boat to the dealer because the liability rests with the trucking company. Your dealer (or someone) will get a reimbursement for the repairs from their insurance company. The boat will be sold to you now or someone else later. If you get a good repair it shouldn't make any difference at resale time. What does your dealer have to say about this? They're really your first point of contact for getting it resolved.
First, my condolences. The emotional letdown of seeing your gorgeous new boat damaged has got to be awful. Regarding next steps, your contract is with the dealer, not Hunter. Your dealer pays for the boat when they receive it - not sure if the dealer owns the boat when it leaves the factory. They might, but then again, they may also be able to refuse it. Here's my take; Hunter isn't going to discount the boat to the dealer because the liability rests with the trucking company. Your dealer (or someone) will get a reimbursement for the repairs from their insurance company. The boat will be sold to you now or someone else later. If you get a good repair it shouldn't make any difference at resale time. What does your dealer have to say about this? They're really your first point of contact for getting it resolved.
Welcome to Cedar Mills
Joel,it may be hard to smile now, but with Rich and crew you are in good hands at Cedar Mills. My boat was built by Hunter and modified by Valiant. Not a bad combination. I will be up next weekend and hope to see you. Jim Rushing S/V Kittyhawk II
Joel,it may be hard to smile now, but with Rich and crew you are in good hands at Cedar Mills. My boat was built by Hunter and modified by Valiant. Not a bad combination. I will be up next weekend and hope to see you. Jim Rushing S/V Kittyhawk II
I'd run, not walk
I read your unfortunate story closely. And, after looking at the pictures, I would decline delivery. I too have had some problems with a newly delivered 410. They were not as extensive, but the bottom line is this. Your pride and joy has been soiled. It is no longer the boat of your dreams. Not to be a suspicious guy, you never know what else has been screwed up with the boat's meeting an unmoveable object. Problems could reoccur long after the year's warranty has expired. No level of price reduction would compensate you for a harrowing experience while under way and you have to put out the dreaded "Mayday". Order another one, have it done right, provide yourself some peace of mind, and move on. I have personally seen that any repair will not be as good as what was originally done at the factory. I suspect that Hunter will go the extra mile to satify you. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
I read your unfortunate story closely. And, after looking at the pictures, I would decline delivery. I too have had some problems with a newly delivered 410. They were not as extensive, but the bottom line is this. Your pride and joy has been soiled. It is no longer the boat of your dreams. Not to be a suspicious guy, you never know what else has been screwed up with the boat's meeting an unmoveable object. Problems could reoccur long after the year's warranty has expired. No level of price reduction would compensate you for a harrowing experience while under way and you have to put out the dreaded "Mayday". Order another one, have it done right, provide yourself some peace of mind, and move on. I have personally seen that any repair will not be as good as what was originally done at the factory. I suspect that Hunter will go the extra mile to satify you. John Richard s/v Jack's Place
Who' resposible
Sounds like your issue is with dealer and trucking company and not Hunter. I assume the purchase and sail agreement is between you and the dealer. The trucking companies insurance carrier is responsible for repair and since this is apparantly repairable replacement is out of the question unless the dealer agrees. You should make sure you agree on fix and not close until fully acceptable. The power of the dollar. Good luck Len Tale Winds
Sounds like your issue is with dealer and trucking company and not Hunter. I assume the purchase and sail agreement is between you and the dealer. The trucking companies insurance carrier is responsible for repair and since this is apparantly repairable replacement is out of the question unless the dealer agrees. You should make sure you agree on fix and not close until fully acceptable. The power of the dollar. Good luck Len Tale Winds
Joel
I think many of us would be curious as to how you end up resolving this issue. Several people have indicated different opinions as to who is the owner of the boat etc.. When you get a determination as to he legal aspects please post. This may help others when ordering boats in the future. Sure hope things work out to your satisfaction.
I think many of us would be curious as to how you end up resolving this issue. Several people have indicated different opinions as to who is the owner of the boat etc.. When you get a determination as to he legal aspects please post. This may help others when ordering boats in the future. Sure hope things work out to your satisfaction.
Great information
Thanks to everyone for your support, views and great information. Still in the learning stage with the dealer on what can be done. Will then make an educated decession on what I will do. I will update on how everything turns out, so anyone that finds themself in a similar situation will know what to expect. Thanks again Joel Song of Texas
Thanks to everyone for your support, views and great information. Still in the learning stage with the dealer on what can be done. Will then make an educated decession on what I will do. I will update on how everything turns out, so anyone that finds themself in a similar situation will know what to expect. Thanks again Joel Song of Texas
Good Question Steve
I wonder if they are on the side of the road in Louisiana somwhere, what bridge did it hit?
I wonder if they are on the side of the road in Louisiana somwhere, what bridge did it hit?
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