Daggerboards Only

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Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Somewhere between forgetting to put the dboard down, and just leaving it at the end of its tether, is the optimum adjustment of daggerboard depth. Given that wind velocity and sea state will factor in here, do any of you adjust your daggerboard like, say, your traveler; and what criteria do you apply to the adjustment? It's the beginning of a new boating season!
 
Jun 8, 2004
550
Macgregor 26M Delta, B.C. Canada 26M not X
Sheath your Dagger!

I never leave the daggerboard down on my M while slipped, always up, just to keep the marine growth off. I measured the depth of my rudders then marked the daggerboard line to the same depth so that I could match them when just manouvering around the marina. I do not always adjust the DB when sailing but do sometimes remember to bring it up at least to rudder depth when on a broad reach or downwind. When motoring I have it maybe 12-15 inches down to help improve tracking. On a close reach or close haul I prefer it all the way down. It is a bit onerous trying to remember to adjust it all the time so I am not as diligent as I should be, but I still practice adjusting it when I remember. It does affect performance to some degree.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,480
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I've always read

upwind - down beam reach - about half-way downwind - raise it I might pay more attention to these guidelines if the Mac (26S) was set up more like the Hunters where the line is topside. The daggerboards are, right?
 

Jenni

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May 24, 2007
89
Macgregor 26D Port Hope, ON
daggerboard line

Yup the daggerboard is at the top and goes through a pully to take it back to the cockpit but I find if I really want it to raise i have to get over top of the trunk and pull straight up. and to get it all the way down i like to assist it with a brush handel.
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,535
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
what do you do?

Oreana123, hopefully your going to tell us what you do? And when you do it, would you mostly only notice a difference in a racing situation where its easier to see small differences?
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Adjusting

Hi Walt My dboard is HDPE plastic, so it moves easily up and down on any point of sail. I have run the daggerboard line back to the coaming to a cleat. I have marked the line at the half way point. I tried going to that point on a reach. I have pulled the dboard completely up when going downwind, and of course forgotten to put it back down after rounding the mark. Some observations: motoring along at 6 knots with the dboard up, if I drop it fully down without any other changes it will result in the loss of 1/2 knot as measured by GPS. This is the potential drag I have to work with. On a beat, if the the dboard was left up, and then dropped fully down, the boat turns up to windward without any input from the helm. This is the lift I have to deal with. The limit to the length of a D model daggerboard is the distance between the mast base over the dboard well to a point flush on the bottom of the boat. I have a custom length dboard almost this length. I sometimes wonder if I have too much dboard down when going to windward, but there are so many variables that I have not been able to determine if this is so....and wind velocity starts to really mess up my mind. Let's take an extreme case. Suppose you were willing to pull the dboard out of the well every time before trailering. Could you have an extremely long dboard? Would it do any good? I haven't sailed for a while so I have been thinking about the boat...
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,535
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
drag

Interesting that the daggerboard down drops the boat speed 1/2 knot at the "sailing speed" of 6 knots. I guess thats a pretty good argument for only exposing enough daggerboard to give you whatever lift you need and no more (unless your just cruising).
 
Mar 14, 2007
43
Macgregor 26 M Milton-Freewater
Just an observation

Comparing the draft with the board down,(A) minus the draft with the board up (B) equals the effective lenght of the board under the hull (C). For a 26D (A)69"-(B)15" equals 49". For a 26S (A)76"-(B)15" equals 61". For a 26X (A)66"-(B) 9" equals 57". For a 26M (A)69"-(B)12" equals 57". Dagger board boats are limited by their height between floor and ceiling. while swing keels are not. From this comparison it might appear that the 262 should have the best up wind sailing. However all boats, swing or dagger should gain by following Justin's advice. And from personal experience, irregardless of type, the board should be all the way up when trying to get back on the trailer!
 
Jun 22, 2004
57
Macgregor 26D beaver lake, ar
Daggerboards Rule!

Oreana: Thanks for sharing. I have a daggerboard and usually just leave in pretty much all the way down when out on water. Exceptions: if I think I'm approachin some thin water and when I'm returning to ramp. I have the origianl board and it seems ok. I pulled it when I first bought the boat. One minor problem: since the control line pulls the board to starboard, when I want it all the way up the top of the board tend to catch under the lip of the centerboard well (Hope that's clear ?)
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Block

David You probably need a nice block mounted squarely above your dboard to facilitate adjustments and guide the dboard edge away from the fiberglass lip. I'll post a flick of mine if you wish. I led my dboard uphaul to a cam cleat on the coaming for quick adjustment. Schoolhouse Steve I am not sure where you were going with the computations, but I have to say that my dboard is a custom length and sticks out way more than the one supplied stock from Macgregor, and I wonder about the placement of the dboard vs the point under the mast vs effectiveness of the boards, if that makes any sense. My dboard is directly under the mast step, and strictly vertical. Is the S model any further aft, is it completely vertical when deployed and does any of this matter to its effectiveness? And if dboard extension alone was able to improve upwind sailing, I'd install a longer dboard tomorrow. I was wondering if there were some criteria to know when there is just enough dboard down, to reduce unnecessary drag.
 
J

Justin

theory

The daggerboard / swing keel (centerboard) basic function is to reduce sideways slippage (leeway.)The amount of centerboard is closely related to the direction, in relation to the wind, in which the boat is sailing. The forces on the boat vary in relation to the wind but the basic positions apply. You mileage may vary. ;) Schoolhouse Steve, Ida does make rudders for the M. Check out the link. http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=480
 
Mar 14, 2007
43
Macgregor 26 M Milton-Freewater
Thanks

for the reply Justin. I'm considering getting the Ida sail rudders having heard good things about them. But do they have a dagger board for a 26 M?
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Dboards

While the surface of the boat's dboard surely factors into the wetted area and drag computations, for some reason the D model is acknowledged to be just slightly faster overall than the S model which is faster than the X or M. The S and the D models are the Classics. The Ida dboard is a short run type of product: Joel will only build 4 at a time, and only with 4 committed buyers, and only when production time permits. This is the time of the year that Joel will typically do short run requests. The Ida dboard is made of a material that is lighter than water, floats, and so needs encapsulated lead in the bottom of the dboard. I am talking about the D model here. One consideration about the strength of the dboard is that the dboard needs to weaker than the well it is sticking out of, or you will tear the fiberglass hull in a grounding. Ida will machine a kerf into your custom dboard if you wish, as a weak point. I do a lot of camping and beaching on my boat, I have just developed the skills to get the dboard up before ground strike. I used to use a depth finder, but it is currently inop, so I just make sure I get it up when I get anywhere near the bottom. Sailing in the Boise area is done mostly on Lucky Peak reservoir and Lake Lowell. Both are about a half an hour from here. In the greater area is Cascade reservoir, Lower Payette Lake, Redfish, and then large impoundments in Hell's Canyon. My boat is right now ready to go down the highway. We spent as week on Lake Mead in April, and a week on Yellowstone in August. Because of the ease of towing, we have been trying to cover ever greater circles to see the bodies of water around here. I am looking at Flathead Lake for next year. The strength of HDPE is sometimes challenged when used as a rudder, but for a dboard it is strong enough. Example: at Yellowstone Lake I was sailing along the edge of the lake watching a herd of swimming elk and I ran agound at about 5 knots. When this happens, the dboard will not retract (I tried) because the weight of the entire boat is cocking it in the well. It stopped the boat (with a ton of people and camp gear, supplies), and then I had to rock the boat to one side to get the weight off of it. I examined the dboard later: no damage. Bottom material was volcanic geyser muck and gravel. I don't know about the X or M, but on the D model the original dboard was made of fiberglass with wooden stringers. It was designed to be filled with water and sunk down the well. The wooden stringers separate from the fiberglass over time reducing the strength of the dboard. Once any damage is suffered by the fiberglass, the dboard starts to stick in well, going up or down. By contrast, the self lubricated plastic of the HDPE is easilly sanded to remove imperfections, and it slips up and down in the well easily, so easily that I often forget when excited and I slam the dboard up against the deck block. It is easy to adjust on any point of sail. It also has a superior shape than the stock oval, and the benefits of the Ida rudder apply here for the dboard, but are more difficult to quantify. Since I have the nice airfoil, and because I can adjust this beauty so easily, I have determined to take advantage of this dboard in the upcoming season. I am going to do some GPS speed calculations, try to figure in VMG, make marks on my dboard line, and record what works for my boat.
 
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
Dboards

While the surface of the boat's dboard surely factors into the wetted area and drag computations, for some reason the D model is acknowledged to be just slightly faster overall than the S model which is faster than the X or M. The S and the D models are the Classics. The Ida dboard is a short run type of product: Joel will only build 4 at a time, and only with 4 committed buyers, and only when production time permits. This is the time of the year that Joel will typically do short run requests. The Ida dboard is made of a material that is lighter than water, floats, and so needs encapsulated lead in the bottom of the dboard. I am talking about the D model here. One consideration about the strength of the dboard is that the dboard needs to weaker than the well it is sticking out of, or you will tear the fiberglass hull in a grounding. Ida will machine a kerf into your custom dboard if you wish, as a weak point. I do a lot of camping and beaching on my boat, I have just developed the skills to get the dboard up before ground strike. I used to use a depth finder, but it is currently inop, so I just make sure I get it up when I get anywhere near the bottom. Sailing in the Boise area is done mostly on Lucky Peak reservoir and Lake Lowell. Both are about a half an hour from here. In the greater area is Cascade reservoir, Lower Payette Lake, Redfish, and then large impoundments in Hell's Canyon. My boat is right now ready to go down the highway. We spent as week on Lake Mead in April, and a week on Yellowstone in August. Because of the ease of towing, we have been trying to cover ever greater circles to see the bodies of water around here. I am looking at Flathead Lake for next year. The strength of HDPE is sometimes challenged when used as a rudder, but for a dboard it is strong enough. Example: at Yellowstone Lake I was sailing along the edge of the lake watching a herd of swimming elk and I ran agound at about 5 knots. When this happens, the dboard will not retract (I tried) because the weight of the entire boat is cocking it in the well. It stopped the boat (with a ton of people and camp gear, supplies), and then I had to rock the boat to one side to get the weight off of it. I examined the dboard later: no damage. Bottom material was volcanic geyser muck and gravel. I don't know about the X or M, but on the D model the original dboard was made of fiberglass with wooden stringers. It was designed to be filled with water and sunk down the well. The wooden stringers separate from the fiberglass over time reducing the strength of the dboard. Once any damage is suffered by the fiberglass, the dboard starts to stick in well, going up or down. By contrast, the self lubricated plastic of the HDPE is easilly sanded to remove imperfections, and it slips up and down in the well easily, so easily that I often forget when excited and I slam the dboard up against the deck block. It is easy to adjust on any point of sail. It also has a superior shape than the stock oval, and the benefits of the Ida rudder apply here for the dboard, but are more difficult to quantify. Since I have the nice airfoil, and because I can adjust this beauty so easily, I have determined to take advantage of this dboard in the upcoming season. I am going to do some GPS speed calculations, try to figure in VMG, make marks on my dboard line, and record what works for my boat.
 
Jun 22, 2004
57
Macgregor 26D beaver lake, ar
daggerboard block

Oreana: Yes; I'd like to see pix of your daggerboard control block. I've considered this but couldn't figure out right type of block or right mounting approach. I did'nt want to preclude being able to pull the board all the way out topside (with mast down of course) Thanks, David
 
Jun 22, 2004
57
Macgregor 26D beaver lake, ar
daggerboard block

Oreana: Yes; I'd like to see pix of your daggerboard control block. I've considered this but couldn't figure out right type of block or right mounting approach. I did'nt want to preclude being able to pull the board all the way out topside (with mast down of course) Thanks, David
 
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