A new 150 is on the Christmas wish list ... or at least a promise of one in the family budget in leau of presents. The sail will be used for cruising only, although I like to sail fast and efficiently. On my C27 tall rig, it will stay up awhile. First sail change is a reef in the main. Anyone have opinions on the following choices? 5 oz dacron 6 oz dacron mylar THanks, Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
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mylar tp
Mylar is a great material for high performance, if you don't mind buying a new one every 1-3 years! A dacron sail, well treated will last 10-20 years.
Mylar is a great material for high performance, if you don't mind buying a new one every 1-3 years! A dacron sail, well treated will last 10-20 years.
Go with Dacron
Mylar is just like a plastic bag and does not like the sun. I would buy Dacron. Fair winds
Mylar is just like a plastic bag and does not like the sun. I would buy Dacron. Fair winds
go with mylar
Come on!! You can afford a sail at three to four times the cost of that "common" dacron, and replace it every few years. Do you really want to fit in, or race well? Buy Mylar and you will have an advantage in those close races. Besides, you ever see a 10 year old sail? Yuck. Dirty, wrinkled, looks like inner city. Do you mow your own lawn? Hell no. DO you drive a BMW or Acura or 10 year old chevy? DO you live in the high priced burbs and belong to the country club? Hell yes. Then don't "settle" for cheap, long lasting Dacron. Go for it! Buy Mylar.
Come on!! You can afford a sail at three to four times the cost of that "common" dacron, and replace it every few years. Do you really want to fit in, or race well? Buy Mylar and you will have an advantage in those close races. Besides, you ever see a 10 year old sail? Yuck. Dirty, wrinkled, looks like inner city. Do you mow your own lawn? Hell no. DO you drive a BMW or Acura or 10 year old chevy? DO you live in the high priced burbs and belong to the country club? Hell yes. Then don't "settle" for cheap, long lasting Dacron. Go for it! Buy Mylar.
!50 @ 5 oz and 130 @ 6 oz.
The problem with a 150 @ 6 oz, is that in light air , there is no way it will hold it's shape. r.w.landau
The problem with a 150 @ 6 oz, is that in light air , there is no way it will hold it's shape. r.w.landau
I was thinking dacron ....
... cause that's what I know. But since I mow my own yard, drive a six year old Hyundai, don't belong to the yacht club, and don't know where the country club is, I guess that seals the choice.
... cause that's what I know. But since I mow my own yard, drive a six year old Hyundai, don't belong to the yacht club, and don't know where the country club is, I guess that seals the choice.
No difference
No sail will last forever. If you fold and bag your sail you may get more years of service from a Dacron sail. If it is a roller furling sail they both will last for years. A sail's life is not how long it takes for the fabric to fall apart, the sail is "dead" when it no longer holds it's shape. All fabrics only have a certain number of tacks and minutes flogging before they are out of shape. All sails can permanently damaged by too much halyard tension. Dacron is more tolerant of abuse, but not much. Anyone that thinks their 10-12 year old sails are still good is kidding themselves. Unless they have been very lightly used, have been stored rolled and have been back for re-cuts every few years, they are blown out, draft aft and slow. You can tell the difference between a 10 year old sail and a new sail blindfolded just by the difference in how the boat sails. Both sails will start life with a good shape, the Dacron sail starts going downhill after the first tack and is slower after the first season. It gets worse and worse every year. Racers in classes (like J-24's)that do not allow Mylar, change sails after every major regatta. Racers like Mylar sails because they last longer. Modern laminates with Dacron taffeta last almost as long as Dacron, but hold their shape for many more seasons than the cloth sail. If you are careful when you bag them, or have roller furling, the new laminates are very long lived.
No sail will last forever. If you fold and bag your sail you may get more years of service from a Dacron sail. If it is a roller furling sail they both will last for years. A sail's life is not how long it takes for the fabric to fall apart, the sail is "dead" when it no longer holds it's shape. All fabrics only have a certain number of tacks and minutes flogging before they are out of shape. All sails can permanently damaged by too much halyard tension. Dacron is more tolerant of abuse, but not much. Anyone that thinks their 10-12 year old sails are still good is kidding themselves. Unless they have been very lightly used, have been stored rolled and have been back for re-cuts every few years, they are blown out, draft aft and slow. You can tell the difference between a 10 year old sail and a new sail blindfolded just by the difference in how the boat sails. Both sails will start life with a good shape, the Dacron sail starts going downhill after the first tack and is slower after the first season. It gets worse and worse every year. Racers in classes (like J-24's)that do not allow Mylar, change sails after every major regatta. Racers like Mylar sails because they last longer. Modern laminates with Dacron taffeta last almost as long as Dacron, but hold their shape for many more seasons than the cloth sail. If you are careful when you bag them, or have roller furling, the new laminates are very long lived.
Sailmaker's Input?
Personally, as a former racer I prefered Mylar for performance. I presently have a 3.3oz mylar 155% no.1; a 135 mylar/dacron laminate no.2 and the original all dacron 110. Having taken care of multiple racing and cruising sails, my experience has been that you will get better performance for a longet time out of the mylar and mylar dacron laminate sails which perform and hold their designed shape in higher wind strengths better than dacron. From 20 years personal experience I'd have to disagree with some of the longevity and cost statements and ask whether those statements come from actual experience. If you get 2,3 or 4 years of decent performance out of a less expensive dacron sail, which then lasts another ten+ years with a progressively worse shape, will it be the bargain you expect? None the less, I'd suggest a you should have that discussion with your sailmaker before you purchase either one.
Personally, as a former racer I prefered Mylar for performance. I presently have a 3.3oz mylar 155% no.1; a 135 mylar/dacron laminate no.2 and the original all dacron 110. Having taken care of multiple racing and cruising sails, my experience has been that you will get better performance for a longet time out of the mylar and mylar dacron laminate sails which perform and hold their designed shape in higher wind strengths better than dacron. From 20 years personal experience I'd have to disagree with some of the longevity and cost statements and ask whether those statements come from actual experience. If you get 2,3 or 4 years of decent performance out of a less expensive dacron sail, which then lasts another ten+ years with a progressively worse shape, will it be the bargain you expect? None the less, I'd suggest a you should have that discussion with your sailmaker before you purchase either one.
Alan ...
Are you saying that some of my posts contain bull, attitude, preconceived notions, or are not the truth?
Thanks for the kind words, It has been a long week.
Are you saying that some of my posts contain bull, attitude, preconceived notions, or are not the truth?
Thanks for the kind words, It has been a long week.Mylar and Heat?
One consideration our sailmaker rep mentioned is that the early Mylar sails had a problem with delamination in high temperatures. Suggested to be careful where you store them if you live in hot country. Didn't know if newer sails had the same problem, hoped that the adhesive changes that have been made solved that but time will tell.
One consideration our sailmaker rep mentioned is that the early Mylar sails had a problem with delamination in high temperatures. Suggested to be careful where you store them if you live in hot country. Didn't know if newer sails had the same problem, hoped that the adhesive changes that have been made solved that but time will tell.
Consider an asymetric Spinnaker
If you are really a cruiser, a good asymetric will give you the best performance, unless you are hrd on the wind in light air. And, you can douse it, and roll out a 110 when the wind does pick up. In my experience, a 150 gets pretty inefficient as you bear off into a reach. I see it as a racing sail for going to the windward mark in light air. An asymetric is as good or better on most other points of sail. And they look great! David Lady Lillie
If you are really a cruiser, a good asymetric will give you the best performance, unless you are hrd on the wind in light air. And, you can douse it, and roll out a 110 when the wind does pick up. In my experience, a 150 gets pretty inefficient as you bear off into a reach. I see it as a racing sail for going to the windward mark in light air. An asymetric is as good or better on most other points of sail. And they look great! David Lady Lillie
Dave/Moody ...
Thinking about your comment on asym's, I might rethink this a bit, because I do pop a chute in lighter air anytime I'm below about 60 degrees, especially if I have someone sailing with me. (To dump the chute by myself, I have to get the boat balanced on a beam reach, release the tack, and then pull in the clew down the main companionway while I'm also lowering the halyard. If the wind has gotten up on me unexpectedly, this can get fun.) Anyway ... what I have now is what came with the boat: a mylar 150 that's starting to delaminate a mylar 110 that's shot a very heavy dacron 100 that I can leave up in anything short of a small gale I can only afford one new sail, so it was going to be the 150, but maybe I really ought to get a 135. Sail a little slower on the wind in light air, but I can leave it up longer, and off the wind I'm usually using a chute anyway. Hmmmmmm ... On the mylar question ... I use hank-on sails, and ALWAYS carefully flake and bag them. They might get stuffed down the hatch if I have to quickly change down, but at the end of the day they're stored as best I know how. So maybe one of the mylar/dacron laminates in a bit heavier 135? Tom
Thinking about your comment on asym's, I might rethink this a bit, because I do pop a chute in lighter air anytime I'm below about 60 degrees, especially if I have someone sailing with me. (To dump the chute by myself, I have to get the boat balanced on a beam reach, release the tack, and then pull in the clew down the main companionway while I'm also lowering the halyard. If the wind has gotten up on me unexpectedly, this can get fun.) Anyway ... what I have now is what came with the boat: a mylar 150 that's starting to delaminate a mylar 110 that's shot a very heavy dacron 100 that I can leave up in anything short of a small gale I can only afford one new sail, so it was going to be the 150, but maybe I really ought to get a 135. Sail a little slower on the wind in light air, but I can leave it up longer, and off the wind I'm usually using a chute anyway. Hmmmmmm ... On the mylar question ... I use hank-on sails, and ALWAYS carefully flake and bag them. They might get stuffed down the hatch if I have to quickly change down, but at the end of the day they're stored as best I know how. So maybe one of the mylar/dacron laminates in a bit heavier 135? Tom
Challenger Pinstripe
We are replacing our Dacron sails with sails made from Challenger Pinstripe cloth. Pinstripe is dacron with twaron(kevlar) strands woven into the cloth. Our 150 genoa worked out well after one season ans is made from Pinstripe 9000. The main being delivered in the spring is made from Pinstripe 15000. Pinstripe is a good alternative to the poly laminates and offers the performance features of high tech fabrics.
We are replacing our Dacron sails with sails made from Challenger Pinstripe cloth. Pinstripe is dacron with twaron(kevlar) strands woven into the cloth. Our 150 genoa worked out well after one season ans is made from Pinstripe 9000. The main being delivered in the spring is made from Pinstripe 15000. Pinstripe is a good alternative to the poly laminates and offers the performance features of high tech fabrics.
Dacron/Mylar laminate
I put a new 155 on the boat this year and ending up going with a laminate sail from Doyle. The cost wasn't significantly more than the straight dacron, and the performance difference has been quite noticeable. I'd make afew calls, get a few estimates, and make your decision from there. I worked with John Baxter out of Doyle in Chicago, and he never once pressured me into which way to go. He simply asked questions regarding how and where I sail, put together estimates, provided specs and cost for various options, and then left it to me to make the decision that was best for me. T J
I put a new 155 on the boat this year and ending up going with a laminate sail from Doyle. The cost wasn't significantly more than the straight dacron, and the performance difference has been quite noticeable. I'd make afew calls, get a few estimates, and make your decision from there. I worked with John Baxter out of Doyle in Chicago, and he never once pressured me into which way to go. He simply asked questions regarding how and where I sail, put together estimates, provided specs and cost for various options, and then left it to me to make the decision that was best for me. T J
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