:D HEY LOOK AT THIS
- Thread starter sand sailor
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Very nice photo!
But why are you posting posting everything in the plumbing forum? (FYI, "Head" mistress means I'm the go-to gal for marine toilets etc)
But why are you posting posting everything in the plumbing forum? (FYI, "Head" mistress means I'm the go-to gal for marine toilets etc)
sorry about where i posted it 
thats just where it ended up... maybe phil can move it to the appropriate place i took the pic from a passing boat , at the helm is a good friend of mine that because of this pic we went to calif to bring home a 27' conorado for him . (the kids call him capt. ron)
thats just where it ended up... maybe phil can move it to the appropriate place i took the pic from a passing boat , at the helm is a good friend of mine that because of this pic we went to calif to bring home a 27' conorado for him . (the kids call him capt. ron)
is it wrong
to only hoist the American Flag high enough such that it is matted by the white sails? Becuase that would be pretty cool, especially with spreader lights on at night
to only hoist the American Flag high enough such that it is matted by the white sails? Becuase that would be pretty cool, especially with spreader lights on at night
Brian, no one is going to arrest you if you fly the flag anywhere
But the rules of correct yacht etiquette would say no. The preferred place for a boat/yacht under power to fly the national ensign is on a staff at the stern, under sail (on a gaff rigged sailboat), at the gaff of the aft most mast, or on a jib headed sail, 1/3 down from the top of the leach and attached to the leach (simulating the position it would be flown at if the boat were gaff rigged). Many sailors compromise and fly the flag from the backstay. Less acceptable is any signal halyard or anyplace where the flag will not fly prominently; but people do it anyway, and old sailors (yachtsmen, patriots, prudes or whatever you would like to call us) cringe. But people do do it, as they occasionally fly some other flag over the US Flag. The only flag that is authorized to fly over the US Flag is the church pennant when church is going on. When I see a flag badly displayed I don't think the boat owner is disrespectful, I just think they are new and unknowing, and I give them a little more room. The navy is much more concerned with flag etiquette, and if you were sailing offshore and passed reasonably close aboard a naval ship with your colors colors properly displayed, and you saluted that ship by dipping your colors, they would answer your salute by dipping colors back at you, then closing there colors back up, and then you would follow suit. If the ship didn't respond the Captain could get in deep DuDu Have fun Joe S (an old naval ship driver)
But the rules of correct yacht etiquette would say no. The preferred place for a boat/yacht under power to fly the national ensign is on a staff at the stern, under sail (on a gaff rigged sailboat), at the gaff of the aft most mast, or on a jib headed sail, 1/3 down from the top of the leach and attached to the leach (simulating the position it would be flown at if the boat were gaff rigged). Many sailors compromise and fly the flag from the backstay. Less acceptable is any signal halyard or anyplace where the flag will not fly prominently; but people do it anyway, and old sailors (yachtsmen, patriots, prudes or whatever you would like to call us) cringe. But people do do it, as they occasionally fly some other flag over the US Flag. The only flag that is authorized to fly over the US Flag is the church pennant when church is going on. When I see a flag badly displayed I don't think the boat owner is disrespectful, I just think they are new and unknowing, and I give them a little more room. The navy is much more concerned with flag etiquette, and if you were sailing offshore and passed reasonably close aboard a naval ship with your colors colors properly displayed, and you saluted that ship by dipping your colors, they would answer your salute by dipping colors back at you, then closing there colors back up, and then you would follow suit. If the ship didn't respond the Captain could get in deep DuDu Have fun Joe S (an old naval ship driver)
flag etiquitte aside...
it looks like it could cause chafe the way your are flying it. But since Joseph brought up flag etiquette, there is a time when a national flag is flown higher than "old glory" and that is when you are visiting a foriegn country. The guideline for appropriate flag/boat size ration is I inch of fly (horizontal measurement) to 1 foot of boat length. Go ahead and fly those oversize flags, I get a kick out of seeing them especially on Independance Day but when you go to a foriegn country they can apear arrogant when they are flown over the courtesy flag.
it looks like it could cause chafe the way your are flying it. But since Joseph brought up flag etiquette, there is a time when a national flag is flown higher than "old glory" and that is when you are visiting a foriegn country. The guideline for appropriate flag/boat size ration is I inch of fly (horizontal measurement) to 1 foot of boat length. Go ahead and fly those oversize flags, I get a kick out of seeing them especially on Independance Day but when you go to a foriegn country they can apear arrogant when they are flown over the courtesy flag.
Bob V, I think I should clarify
When I said no flag should be flown over the US Flag except the church pennant, I was meaning on the same hoist. If you are sailing or powering, or sitting at anchor, you could have the flag on the sail, the gaff, on a staff, or on the backstay. In a foreign country the courtesy flag is most properly flown on the starboard halyard fairly close up (two blocked), and you are right that that position is higher than the US Flag, but that is OK because it is not on the same hoist. Some people have put the US flag and the courtesy flag on the same halyard and out of respect to the country visited or fear of the country visited, they put the courtesy flag above the US flag, and this is inappropriate. There is a little bit of national arrogance in our flag etiquette. Most people might not realize that the US never dips a flag first when exchanging salutes with foreign warships or merchantmen, but will dip the colors in response to a dip (salute) from the other. Similarly if you watch the procession at the beginning of the Olympics you might notice that every country dips their colors in salute to the officials doing the review. All that is, except the United States. We don't initiate a salute to anyone, and the flag bearers are schooled not to dip the colors. A similar situation happens at a reviewing stand in our local parades where the color guard will dip State, City, Corps, or battalion flags but not the US Flag. Many people disregard flag etiquette. Some without realizing it, by some who could care less, and by some who do it deliberately in protest of some kind. They are allowed to in this country but I would like them to know some of the etiquette so they will know where they stand BTW the us flag and the courtesy flag of the country visited should not ever be flown on the same halyard. Have fun Joe S
When I said no flag should be flown over the US Flag except the church pennant, I was meaning on the same hoist. If you are sailing or powering, or sitting at anchor, you could have the flag on the sail, the gaff, on a staff, or on the backstay. In a foreign country the courtesy flag is most properly flown on the starboard halyard fairly close up (two blocked), and you are right that that position is higher than the US Flag, but that is OK because it is not on the same hoist. Some people have put the US flag and the courtesy flag on the same halyard and out of respect to the country visited or fear of the country visited, they put the courtesy flag above the US flag, and this is inappropriate. There is a little bit of national arrogance in our flag etiquette. Most people might not realize that the US never dips a flag first when exchanging salutes with foreign warships or merchantmen, but will dip the colors in response to a dip (salute) from the other. Similarly if you watch the procession at the beginning of the Olympics you might notice that every country dips their colors in salute to the officials doing the review. All that is, except the United States. We don't initiate a salute to anyone, and the flag bearers are schooled not to dip the colors. A similar situation happens at a reviewing stand in our local parades where the color guard will dip State, City, Corps, or battalion flags but not the US Flag. Many people disregard flag etiquette. Some without realizing it, by some who could care less, and by some who do it deliberately in protest of some kind. They are allowed to in this country but I would like them to know some of the etiquette so they will know where they stand BTW the us flag and the courtesy flag of the country visited should not ever be flown on the same halyard. Have fun Joe S
Thanks Joseph
I guess the part about the US Warships only dipping after being dipped to is like in the military where the higher rank salutes after the junior or even in a Japanese dojo when the higher ranks return a bow after the student. That seems appropriate. I would say US Warships have supremacy on the world's oceans after we stood up to the British Navy and the sun set on their empire. I did not know that about the Olympics though. I think that should change in the spirit of the Olympics where nations from all over the world allegedly put aside politics for the games and meet as equals. But hey, how about that chafe issue. Better get old glory back to the leech or backstay and save the sail and flag. There is a great section on flag etiquitte on the C42 Assoc website. Looks like a nice boat Sand Sailor.
I guess the part about the US Warships only dipping after being dipped to is like in the military where the higher rank salutes after the junior or even in a Japanese dojo when the higher ranks return a bow after the student. That seems appropriate. I would say US Warships have supremacy on the world's oceans after we stood up to the British Navy and the sun set on their empire. I did not know that about the Olympics though. I think that should change in the spirit of the Olympics where nations from all over the world allegedly put aside politics for the games and meet as equals. But hey, how about that chafe issue. Better get old glory back to the leech or backstay and save the sail and flag. There is a great section on flag etiquitte on the C42 Assoc website. Looks like a nice boat Sand Sailor.
Tom, a good question. You probably wouldn't and maybe couldn't.
You probably would never notice but a naval ship, most merchantmen, and many power yachts have a short (1 or 2 ft) gaff permanently fastened up high on the mainmast (yes they have them on power vessels too) with a flag halyard attached. When they get underway they shift colors from the aft flagstaff to the gaff on the flag halyard and render honors from there. A sailboat with a gaff rigged main would do the same. One with a jib headed main with the flag on a halyard to the proper attachment point on the leech could also dip the colors. Those sailboats with the flag permanently attached to the leech, mounted on the backstay, or on a relatively short flagstaff, generally don't have a way to even try, and if they did have a short halyard on the flagstaff, dipping the colors from there would probably not even noticed. Saluting at sea is a courtesy, and not a requirement, and since it is not normally done between yachts, and should never be initiated by a US yacht to anyone but a US warship, it is very seldom mentioned. I mention it though because I think it's an interesting aside. Have fun Joe S
You probably would never notice but a naval ship, most merchantmen, and many power yachts have a short (1 or 2 ft) gaff permanently fastened up high on the mainmast (yes they have them on power vessels too) with a flag halyard attached. When they get underway they shift colors from the aft flagstaff to the gaff on the flag halyard and render honors from there. A sailboat with a gaff rigged main would do the same. One with a jib headed main with the flag on a halyard to the proper attachment point on the leech could also dip the colors. Those sailboats with the flag permanently attached to the leech, mounted on the backstay, or on a relatively short flagstaff, generally don't have a way to even try, and if they did have a short halyard on the flagstaff, dipping the colors from there would probably not even noticed. Saluting at sea is a courtesy, and not a requirement, and since it is not normally done between yachts, and should never be initiated by a US yacht to anyone but a US warship, it is very seldom mentioned. I mention it though because I think it's an interesting aside. Have fun Joe S
If you get close enough to a Navy ship
for them to see you dipping the colors these days you can use a hand salute when the men with guns board you. I got within 800 yards of the Navy Ammo dock at Indian Islands and in no time at all I was close enough to the men standing at their 50 caliber guns to converse in a normal tone of voice. They "suggested" 1000 yards seperation.
for them to see you dipping the colors these days you can use a hand salute when the men with guns board you. I got within 800 yards of the Navy Ammo dock at Indian Islands and in no time at all I was close enough to the men standing at their 50 caliber guns to converse in a normal tone of voice. They "suggested" 1000 yards seperation.
Close enough
Navy ships? We were sailing just east of the Gulf stream N31, W79 in 10 to 15 sometimes 20 ft swells with the wind on the quarter,at a steady twenty five knots and a destroyer came barreling up behind us. They came on the VHF hailing us as "little Sailboat" and requested that we stay clear a Nautical mile. My son, got on the VHF and replied, "This is a taxpayer in the little sailboat, in twenty foot seas, 25 kts of wind sailing the course we can sail without danger, what course would you like us to take to avoid your OVERTAKING craft? The came back on and said they would steer clear, have a nice day.
Navy ships? We were sailing just east of the Gulf stream N31, W79 in 10 to 15 sometimes 20 ft swells with the wind on the quarter,at a steady twenty five knots and a destroyer came barreling up behind us. They came on the VHF hailing us as "little Sailboat" and requested that we stay clear a Nautical mile. My son, got on the VHF and replied, "This is a taxpayer in the little sailboat, in twenty foot seas, 25 kts of wind sailing the course we can sail without danger, what course would you like us to take to avoid your OVERTAKING craft? The came back on and said they would steer clear, have a nice day.
Bob V - who taught you history???
Your statement - "That seems appropriate. I would say US Warships have supremacy on the world's oceans after we stood up to the British Navy and the sun set on their empire."
Your statement - "That seems appropriate. I would say US Warships have supremacy on the world's oceans after we stood up to the British Navy and the sun set on their empire."
Well, Jim I do read a little bit of History
I don't claim to be an expert but I was referring to the creation of the US Navy in the early 1800's. It was in response to Islamic terrorist/pirates, remember the "shores of Tripoli"? But we did battle with the British Navy when our entire Navy consisted of 6 Frigates and various small boats. The British Navy ruled the world's oceans at the time as the Dutch Naval forces were waining. The French and Spanish Navies were no match for Her Majisties ships and they knew it. There was no way that we could stand up to the might of the British Ships of the Line (battleships) so we built oversize frigates which were not as heavily armed as the British ships of the line but were quicker and more manueverable. The british frigates were no match for ours because ours had more range and could pick them apart from a distance where they could not reach us with their guns. The British claimed that our frigates were not really frigates much like they said the continental army could not face them on a field of battle. It was widely assumed in Britain at the time that we were not "fighting fair". The loss of the American colonies was the beginning of the end for the British Empire. At least I think that is the way it went. What did I get wrong?
I don't claim to be an expert but I was referring to the creation of the US Navy in the early 1800's. It was in response to Islamic terrorist/pirates, remember the "shores of Tripoli"? But we did battle with the British Navy when our entire Navy consisted of 6 Frigates and various small boats. The British Navy ruled the world's oceans at the time as the Dutch Naval forces were waining. The French and Spanish Navies were no match for Her Majisties ships and they knew it. There was no way that we could stand up to the might of the British Ships of the Line (battleships) so we built oversize frigates which were not as heavily armed as the British ships of the line but were quicker and more manueverable. The british frigates were no match for ours because ours had more range and could pick them apart from a distance where they could not reach us with their guns. The British claimed that our frigates were not really frigates much like they said the continental army could not face them on a field of battle. It was widely assumed in Britain at the time that we were not "fighting fair". The loss of the American colonies was the beginning of the end for the British Empire. At least I think that is the way it went. What did I get wrong?
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